[JameGumb]

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum. I read some of the other threads, and it looks like the crowd here is gentle with amateurs, so I registered in hopes of getting some help.

I have a bunch of different point and shoot digital cameras, none of which have seemed to help me in this issue.

I am trying to photograph books in the fashion described in these images. No pincushion distortion, even lighting... very straightforward visually.

I have 2 studio lights which I aim at 45 degree angles, I try to shoot with no other light (night time in my living room). I've heard a lot of different suggestions, I guess I am wondering if there is any way to achieve this in the simplest manner. Preferably without the purchase of additional lenses. I am in the market for a new digital camera and am willing to spend around 500$, so points in that direction would be greatly appreciated. Everything I've shot with so far fails in one way or another, but I would say my biggest problem is distortion. And Photoshop's corrective software kinda falls short - the type on the pages gives away it's footprint.

I am looking to photograph a pretty vast collection of books this way, so I am very invested in finding a simple solution. Extra info is, I am a graphic designer who designs books for a living, and this is towards a portfolio website.

Thank you in advance.
JG

Attached Images

 

[justinr]

When you say distortion are you referring to the curve of the page? For the edges of the book cover look fairly straight and unmolested on the photo. If so then there is probably not much you can do about it short of taking the book apart and shooting each leaf individually.

Justin.

[MRRiley]

Assuming you simply want to photograph the layout on a partigular page or set of pages, you could always lay a piece of high quality glass over the open book to flatten the pages without damage. Place your lights at 45 degree angles and shoot thru the glass sheet. This should eliminated or reduce the "distortion" you mentioned (which, I assume is the curve of the pages) and allow you to get a usable image.

This should work for even a significant number of "representative" shots of each book but would be horribly tedious and very time consuming if you are shooting every single page of thousands of books.

Mike

p.s. Are you a "Silence of the Lambs" fan by any chance?

[JameGumb]

@justinr: the photo I attached represents the "ideal" image of how I'd think this shot.

@mrriley: yes, good suggestion about the glass sheet. I would worry about possible reflection, but I would test it first.


But my real question is still: what type of [digital] camera would I use to best shoot something like this? My pocket point-and-shoots feature noticeable distortion, and are not high-res enough to do justice to the type, to boot. I also just realized I am factoring in a tripod with a perpendicular mount, but I figure that should be easy enough to find on my own.

Thanks. and yes, SoTL is the best movie.

[George Lama]

You could purchase non-glare glass though if you're worried about it breaking with frequent handling, you might have better luck with non-glare styrene.

The only issue you might have between styrene and glass is weight as styrene doesn't weigh much at all. I gather you could weigh it down if you get a large enough piece to cover the book and give you an edge outside of the frame.

As far as camera, for this kind of work all you would need is a 5 MP or better camera with a good optical lens. Most point and shoots have very poor optical lenses which is why most are useless for detailed work.

Do you have any cameras you could use or are you looking to buy?

[JameGumb]

Styrene, eh? I am going to look into cut sheets of that, I will try to handle some first to get an idea. I do appreciate that it is lighter than glass, and non-glare. Thanks for the suggestion.

I scoured dpreview.com before I ended up here...I was looking at point and shoots there. I've always liked the cut of the Canon G11's jib, and I noticed it exhibited minimal pincushion distortion on this page: Canon PowerShot G11 Review: 8. Photographic tests: Digital Photography Review

I'm not sure I'm reading this review correctly, from what I gather though, they are reviewing a bare-bones, out-the-box camera. Nice to know I won't be shelling out for extra lenses, etc.

[Is that blasphemy here? Keep in mind I am open to any camera suggestion, that $500 budget limit looms overheard though.]

[brecklundin]

if glare (people are usually also referring to reflected background light as well as genuine glare) often this comes either from an over looked light source or even a white ceiling...you can just position something black above the sheet (behind your camera of course) of styrene/lexan/glass, whatever. The black will improve the apparent transparency of the sheet over the book by blocking out the white/light colored source of reflected light/glare...I would look at shooting in a completely dark room if you want to avoid whole issue of shading over your subject. Also have a dark or black area behind the book just in case you get some reflected light from a lighter colored wall onto the clear sheet of whatever...

[Kaimarx]

For 500 bucks you should be able to pick up something decent (used but well looked after) in the market place on this site. If you can afford it what you want with that is a 50mm macro lense (M 50 macro F4 is highly recommended starting point for copying, also affordable).

A 50mm has a flat focal plane that is highly suited to copy work (hence the term "copy lens"). Macro versions will ensure your text is highly legible and tack sharp. The only downside is with teh cropped sensor you will need to compensate with the distance to subject as 50mm goes slightly telephoto.

[JameGumb]

@brecklundin: Thank you, something I will consider. Setting up a black surface parallel to the book spread plane is gonna be tricky (how does that figure for the camera?), but my guess is, experiment with a few shots, and possibly cutting a lens allowance into the black surface.

@kaimarx: I had recently popped into a photo store to ask advice, and they did mention a macro 50. They did not mention it was called a "copy lens", which is interesting to know. So maybe I will look into leasing a lens of that sort for a few days, and attach it to a capable DSLR body. My last studiomate was a photographer proper, and I remember seeing him stand on a chair above a table to photograph press clippings. I bet he was compensating for that telephoto effect.

If anybody has some last thoughts on a camera solution that does not figure an extra lens, I am all ears [including an opinion on that page on the G11, and if I was reading it right]. Otherwise, I will get to work doing some tests and report back, hopefully by spring.

Thank you again, everyone, for your free help. Very kind of you.

[GerryL]

If you could actually specify the P&S camera you are using then there actually might be solutions to this, such as the G11 on which you can attach lens adapter tubes from lensmate.
I actually did this first with my Canon S3 IS P&S wherein you attach a lens adapter tube so you can actually attach macro lenses like the Raynox DCR 150 or DCR 250 or for the matter at hand (to cut any glare) attach an appropriate polarizer on the lens of the P&S camera.
Lensmate makes lens adapter tube for the Canon S90, Canon SX20, SX10, SX1, G7, G9, G10, G11, Sigma DP2, DP1, Leica D-LUX4, Panasonic Lumix LX3, Canon A650, Canon S3 IS, S5 IS.
Here's the link and see what's available to you: Lensmateonline - Canon PowerShot S5/S3 IS

I mostly did this before my K100D super purchase.

[JameGumb]

Ah, sorry, that would have been helpful, yes.

My [digital] camera list is: a Canon PowerShot SD1000 [sure it's useless for this], an HP R707 [likewise], and a Lumix FX33.

Part of my oddly structured question is relevant to this choice of cameras. I feel like whatever I am going to purchase for this, it would be an added bonus if it was useable in daily life. Nothing too precious, if you know what I mean. I have gravitated towards point and shoots because of their general portability and simplicity. Even my film camera, a Contax T3, is in this vein.

[StevenVH]

Well if you're considering a DSLR, I would think any of the older pentax bodies would do fine.
When you start looking at macro lenses your costs go up significantly. A quick search of ebay results in 1 M50/4 macro for @us$150. For that price you could get an A50/1.4 which focuses to .45m/15in or (possibly better choice for cropped sensors) an K/M/A 35mm lens.
That would leave at least $350 for a body and that could get you a K200 or maybe even a K10, if you're considering a full-sized/full-featured SLR.
There's a K100D Super and kit lens for sale in our marketplace for under $300:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-equipment-sale/84445-sale-tr...-kit-lens.html
That would give you a very capable, not too precious, kit and with the addition of a sharp prime lens you should be able to do your copy work too.
I'd highly recommend a tripod or some kind of clamp/mount for the camera. I guess a copy stand is outside your budget.

hth

[philbaum]

I haven't read all the replies, but why can't you use a table type scanner to "photograph" the book pages. The glass is already there and they are relatively cheap.

Phil

[Marc Sabatella]

I'm still unclear on what you are trying to to exactly - copy the book page by page, so the entire contents are readable, or just show of the book aesthetically. Neither is really beyond the capability of a P&S camera, frankly. The distortion you note is more likely a result of shooting too close with a wide angle setting on the zoom - thus creating perspective distortion - than any inherent flaw in the camera. Some example of pictures you've taken that you find unsuccessful would help.

Marc, like you I am still uncertain of the intent. If to copy the whole book into a digital format that's illegal anyway. That aside why not buy an all in one and just scan the thing?

And if you still want to use your camera put a piece of glass to flatten the book somewhat. Our process camera had 2 lights at 45 and the glass sat on top of the book. Hardest part was focusing on the ground glass.