[SloPhoto]

By the tenor of your post it appears that you have already made up your mind to sell. Have a nice time with your new equipment.

As for AF - I use it as a tool - I have also de-coupled AF from the shutter button on my K10D to use the AF button. Now when I want to focus - I select the thing to focus and push the button. I set the exposue, frame and press the shutter button.
What do you want to bet - the next image will be at nearly the same spot (especailly at a wedding - unless the people are at a dead run). Next image ------ just push the shutter button. Done. Why force a refocus on every image? With Pentax lenses you can tweak the focus manually as needed. But why force a refocus for each image - makes no sense.

AF coupled to the shutter button is one of the most stupid things to ever design into a SLR -- along with the removal of DoF scales.

PDL

I think that I may have to do this.

I often decouple it by gaining focus, and slapping it into MF with my left hand.

Just for a frame of reference, I came from the canon camp. I have not seen a lens that had as much hunting on a canon as ALL my lenses do on the k10d, even the canon kit lens! (it is slow and utterly useless as a lens unfortunately).

Honestly, I wish the camera bothered me all of the time, then switching would be easy, but I have fallen in love with the images from the limited lenses. They are beyond special.

I guess I have to make a decision, sell my pentax equipment, or buy a split prism viewfinder and suffer the exposure changes (not a huge issue as I shoot in M 90% of the time). I love large apetures, which makes it quite difficult to MF without a focus aid.


And, just for an update. Camera balked on me durring the ceremony, I really should have used MF and a larger apeture, but I got a great shot of him later, so the parents will be happy.

I was somewhat upset with the pro shooting the event. He didnt bring a spare battery for his flah (qflash system), and only charged up the battery for 1 hour. It called it quits 1/2 way through and he will be leaving most of the families without a picture. Quite subpar for a pro.

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Last edited by SloPhoto; 06-24-2007 at 04:55 PM.

[SloPhoto]

I could not agree more, we are so impatient these days, and if the camera does not do a perfect shot in a second we lose the plot. Yes I do agree the K10D is lousy when focusing in low light, but I do recognize that now and work around it.

Years ago, 25 or so, I shot a wedding, showed up with my 35mm film gear and turned on my camera.. the meter battery was dead.. no chance on a Sat afternoon in suburban Australia in those days to get one, shops closed at noon!!

I called on my brain, shot the whole series using mental calculations, and what really surprised me was that the majority of the images were better exposed than they usually were with the in camera metering!!

The moral of the story is, practice in manual, test to see how many you get right and learn from it. Even focusing, can be manually calcuated, you just have to develop the ability to calculate distance, which is actually harder than exposure guesstimates, but can be developed as a skill.

But that being said, I too think that Pentax could do a better job with the low light focus, I had two P & S Sony cameras that had laser holographic focusing, rarely missed a shot, that feature in Pentax would polish an othewise brilliant camera.

Phil

Great comments, I actually have a few old screw mount lenses lenses just to train myself in those skills, and It is suprizing how much it affects the way you think about the shots.

On the laser holographic thing, I am actually working with a few EE's to make a hotshoe version of that for a pentax. Having a hell of a time with one of the pins, either that or my scope is bad.

[bt*ist]

Best thing that ever happened to me was taking a season of soccer shots of my Dad's soccer team with my old ist DS. The Autofocus on that camera was pretty poor, to be honest, so I had no choice but to use Manual Focus. Was crappy at first, but I soon got quite proficient.

When I bought the K10D I was stunned at the speed and accuracy of the Autofocus. Sure, not perfect, but a massive improvement. On the weekend I went to the zoo and wouldn't you know it, in the low light of the reptile house it was having real difficulty autofocusing a 50mm prime on a small target through glass. So I quickly flicked it to manual focus, took the shots and looked at them at home. Turned out fine.

Now I don't use the K10D to make a living so I don't know if I could live with it if I had to rely upon it. But with a 2 Gb card and up to 3fps and a fast enough prime lens, I'd back myself and go with Manual Focus and go with Autofocus only when the conditions are favourable.

Changing systems is a big choice, and I've never done it. Frankly, I'd be annoyed at having to learn all-new menu systems and having everything feel unlike what I'm used to. I'd seriously be looking at having a play with (preferably hiring for a job) the alternatives you're considering and seeing if they're better, and if so how much.

[vinzer]

Two.... You should sell that K10D. It isn't worth a darn and should be sold cheap to some unsuspecting soul as soon as possible. I am unsuspecting. And cheap. I'll take it.

Best post I've read today. Thanks, Dave!

SloPhoto: I've learned not to rely too much on AF in low light. And if you've ever used a 300D (what I had before my K10D), you'd praise Pentax for the AF accuracy and speed of the K10D.

It's really a matter of perspective. And if you're gonna gripe about the ~$1K you spent on it, consider that I also spent the same amount of money for the 300D some time ago, and it had worse AF, worse color rendition, worse body design (the plastic silver look really isn't my thing, not to mention ergonomics), worse dynamic range, worse high-ISO quality, worse battery life, worse LCD, worse VF, and even worse kit lens (doesn't even come with a hood). And yeah, let's not forget the added SR and weatherproof sealing the K10D has (plus the extra 4 MP if you're into pixel-counting, which I'm not).

Take the time to learn good techniques, and I'm sure you'll overcome the sometimes inaccurate low-light AF of the K10D. But if you're dead set on changing, there will be others who'd happily buy your equipment.

[vinzer]

I had two P & S Sony cameras that had laser holographic focusing, rarely missed a shot, that feature in Pentax would polish an otherwise brilliant camera.

I've also used one of those (my friend still has a functional one, and it saves directly to mini-CDs). It's focuses nicely in low-light, but there's probably a good reason why Sony didn't include the system in their later models, else they would've included it in the A-100.

[Asad_Masede]

I don't think I believe you, Slophoto. With the 540FGZ, my K10D has managed focus locks very quickly in almost complete darkness.

I'm sorry, I'm not calling you a liar, but going by my own experiences in the field with the K10D, I simply don't believe a properly functional K10D can be this slow and error prone when it comes to AF in low light. It beats the crap out of my fellow photographers' Nikon D200s that they use in the same conditions as I do my K10D, the Pentax locks on faster WITHOUT an AF assist light, which the Nikons use everywhere.

You may want to get your K10D checked out. Also, when worse comes to worst, ANY AF camera can get stuck and hunt for a long time (be it a 1Ds MkII or an *ist DL, they are all machines), shots need not be lost, switch to manual focus *immediately* and do your best.

Cheers,
-Asad

[Gus]

I don't think I believe you, Slophoto. With the 540FGZ, my K10D has managed focus locks very quickly in almost complete darkness.
-Asad

I actually believe Slophoto. Just yesterday late afternoon, I had a DA 50-200 and the 540 on my K10 and I was forced to switch to manual focus as it was pretty difficult to get a lock shot after shot (even with the 540's AF assist light). It was indoors, no artificial lighting (with the exception of the flash) and focusing distance was about a meter.

I was surprised cause I don't recall facing such a situation before, but then again I don't use the DA 50-200 that much (not that I've noticed focusing issues with it before).

[PDL]

I think that I may have to do this.

I often decouple it by gaining focus, and slapping it into MF with my left hand.

snip

And, just for an update. Camera balked on me durring the ceremony, I really should have used MF and a larger apeture, but I got a great shot of him later, so the parents will be happy.

snip

Why not set the camera up to do what you want it to do - rather than relying on the default mechanism of refocusing for each shoot. De-coupling AF from the shutter button allows you to manual focus too - no switches no nothing. Focus and shoot.

The guys who informed me about the decouple feature were pros using Canon and Nikon - to a person they prefer to decide what is in focus rather than letting the camera decide.

Now if you are going to get rid of Pentax because you can't figure out how to set the camera up to let you be "the decider" - you are going to be changing camera brands every other shoot. Hope you charge a b*tt load of money for your work - you are going to need it.

By the way - do really believe that when in a studio - the photographer allows the camera to decide what will be in focus? I think you should do just a little bit more research.

PDL - take control - don't be a slave to the chip..

[Asad_Masede]

I actually believe Slophoto. Just yesterday late afternoon, I had a DA 50-200 and the 540 on my K10 and I was forced to switch to manual focus as it was pretty difficult to get a lock shot after shot (even with the 540's AF assist light). It was indoors, no artificial lighting (with the exception of the flash) and focusing distance was about a meter.

I was surprised cause I don't recall facing such a situation before, but then again I don't use the DA 50-200 that much (not that I've noticed focusing issues with it before).

Two things, 1. your DA50-200 has a considerably smaller max aperture than the lenses Slophoto has been using. The camera needs a bright enough image to achieve AF, brighter the better. Lenses with a max aperture of 4-5.6 are barely adequate for indoor AF, they are intended for bright sun use. Even with the assist lamp of the 540, the 50-200 is a pretty dark lens to be using indoors.

2. You said the distance was "about a meter", the DA50-200 has a minimum focus distance of 1.1m, maybe you were closer than that at times and didn't realize it?

I still think Mr. Slophoto needs to have his camera and/or lenses checked.

Cheers,
-Asad

[RiceHigh]

First off, let me say that I absolutely LOVE some of the pictures that come out of my k10d. The 40mm and 43mm lenses are absolute gems.

But,

I am exactly on the same boat with you!

I was photographing some at my cousins wedding last night, and there were times when I could hold down the shutter for 1 minute before it would find focus and click off a shot. This was in an area with mediocre lighting (not the worst I have seen), I tried every lens I had (31mm limited, 40mm limited, 43mm limited), and I was trying very hard to make it easy for the camera.

I had the 540 flash attached, so the AF assist light was helping some, but not enough.

The AF system of the K cameras is pathetic and helpless, in fact, especially at lower light conditions that not really very dim, as you also notice.

Today, I will be photographing at a confirmation in even worse light, and I am just trembling at the thought.

Ohh, and my 31mm backfocuses, so that kills my joy of that lens (it is amazing when it gets it right, and the new firmware makes it much better, but not 800$ reliable)

The images are very nice when the camera gets it right - I must admit that with limtied and FA* lenses it can be even better than my Canon 5D with L lens or EF prime on it, overally for the whole picture (of course resolution wise, the K10D is nothing close to the 5D) - but provided that when everything is right. But unfortunately, most of the time the camera don't get it right for both the AE and AF. Afterall, it is just a hit and miss and the trial and errors game by manual overriding, instead of some kinds of accurate measurement, will continue!

I can use my 5D as a "P&S" by just putting it in jpegs mode with full AF and AE, why no Pentax DSLR body can? (just becoz its a DSLR so that I *must* shoot RAW? ;-))

[davemdsn]

I used the K10D for two weddings yesterday, both with indoor receptions. At the first one the reception was at a castle that had lots of big windows but brown walls so no reflection to fill the room evenly. I was able to use available light at 200 ISO with my Tamron 28-75 at f2.8 with shutter speeds around 1/60th. Shooting in OK but less than optimal conditions I had no trouble with the AF.

At the second wedding the reception was in the gym of a church and had no windows. The lights were turned off and only the decorative lights were providing any light to the large room. I used a strobe on a stand with an umbrella to illuminate my shots but had to focus in light I could not have read by. The only time I had AF trouble was when I tried to shoot between people or decorations to subjects on the other side, obviously the camera wanted to focus on the closer object. I didn't even have my 540 on for AF assist and rarely had to wait more than a fraction of a second for AF to lock.

I will say this, I learned long ago that AF systems need something sharp to focus on. In other words, even in good lighting the AF sensor is looking for something with sharp contrast to focus on. If I have selected the center focusing point and aim it at an open patch of black on a groom's tux the AF will have trouble. If I find an edge for it to look at, say the line between white shirt and black tux, the AF will have a much easier time. This is amplified in low light. I have been doing this for a long time and have learned to look for these sharp contrast areas in my scene, as close to my intended composition as possible, before the AF is engaged because I know that it might have trouble and I want to save time. Just one more practice that can be learned and will make any camera system that much more functional.

[vinzer]

I will say this, I learned long ago that AF systems need something sharp to focus on.

I totally agree with Dave here. I've used Canon's, Nikon's, and Pentax's DSLRs quite a lot and I'll vouch for this statement.

It's a matter of finding an edge or something that's near to the point you'd want to focus on. Even the 30D's touted AF system had problems focusing on a plain patch of color.

Personally, I'm looking to buy a split-focus screen to better help manual focusing. That's the best solution for me. Try to get the AF to work, then verify and make small adjustments manually.

[ebooks4pentax]

Did you know that with the focusing ring permitted, and in AF-S you can focus on any subject in the room until the camera is focused. Then turn the focus ring, while keeping the shutter half pressed, until you are in focus with the correct subject. Press fully...Voila, another perfect shot. What did we do before autofocus?

[PDL]

We had to understand what we were doing instead of using the crutch of "idiot proofing". (from MAD Magazine in the 60's)

Turn off P mode - use AF as a tool/starting point - and think about what you are doing. Take control back - learn the craft. Look at images earlier than the early 80's when AF and auto everything became standard. (My first auto winding camera was just that - a manual camera with a motor built into a add on base - it replaced my right thumb).

PDL

[SloPhoto]

Did you know that with the focusing ring permitted, and in AF-S you can focus on any subject in the room until the camera is focused. Then turn the focus ring, while keeping the shutter half pressed, until you are in focus with the correct subject. Press fully...Voila, another perfect shot. What did we do before autofocus?

This is only possible with DFA and DA lenses.

I use my FA limiteds more than anything else, and with those, you cannot perform those steps.

This is why I manually flip to MF instead of simply decoupling the AF button from the shutter.