[flyer]

Thanks for raising this topic. I had noticed this when taking a photo of a hummingbird once - and I had not considered that I could get a better capture by dropping my shutter speed to x-sync.

You wouldn't necessarily get a better exposure using X sync. It all depends about ambient light. If there is too much ambient light, you would get "shadow exposure" before and after the flash burst. In such a case, it is advisable to use high speed sync.

[StarDust]

So high speed sync is actually better suited for... fill flash, more than it is for freezing objects at high speeds... Right?

[flyer]

So high speed sync is actually better suited for... fill flash, more than it is for freezing objects at high speeds... Right?

Not always. It always depend upon ambient light and if you are photographing a static or moving subject. In the case of a static subject, it doesn't matter if you use HSS or normal flash sync, but with a moving subject and rather bright ambient light, HSS will be better. But it still depends about the speed at which the movements are happening. In a rather subdued lighting with fast moving subject, regular flash will be better than HSS.

[noblepa]

Does the camera/flash even go into HSS mode, if the shutter is set to 1/180 or slower? I'm not sure what the point would be.

If the camera simply uses a normal, single flash pulse at speeds below the x-sync, it would explain why the fan motion is frozen in the first few photos; its just an ordinary, single very high speed flash pulse.

At speeds above x-sync, such as 1/250, the flash more or less becomes a continuous light source. A shutter speed of 1/250 is not fast enough to freeze the motion of the fan.

[BBear]

They are multiple exposures.
SystemA has it right.
Each burst of the flash captures the moving fan blade in a different point of it's travel.
It's a neat effect, one that hadn't occurred to me as a side advantage of HSS.

That is correct, i suspected that as I was checking the results...

The continuous burst of flash does not work as intended for the motion picture.

I am confused about the last comment though, why do you think this is a neat effect and advantage?

It totally defeats the purpose in this motion-style photography...

[BBear]

Here is someone whom had confirmed what the OP has found with HSS.

High Speed Shutter vs. Ordinary Flash Sync


Conclusion is that you can not use HSS to freeze very high speed motion - especially high speed circular motion. This applies to all brands' HSS.

This is actually the same thing I verified..

Funny thing is, I had read this same link few years ago, but never really got interested in trying HSS...

[BBear]

Does the camera/flash even go into HSS mode, if the shutter is set to 1/180 or slower? I'm not sure what the point would be.

It does not.

As you drop the Tv, the "HSS" icon disappears, and as you bring it up above 1/180, the "HSS" shows up again in the flash LCD.

Pretty neat how they "talk to each other".

[BBear]

So high speed sync is actually better suited for... fill flash, more than it is for freezing objects at high speeds... Right?

Not always. It always depend upon ambient light and if you are photographing a static or moving subject. In the case of a static subject, it doesn't matter if you use HSS or normal flash sync, but with a moving subject and rather bright ambient light, HSS will be better. But it still depends about the speed at which the movements are happening. In a rather subdued lighting with fast moving subject, regular flash will be better than HSS.

From what I see, I would agree with StarDust...

Flyer, could you confirm if your comment is actually correct? It seems like you confused the situations...

Could you clarify that?


Thanks

BB

[flyer]

Flyer, could you confirm if your comment is actually correct? It seems like you confused the situations...
Could you clarify that?

I don't see anything wrong with what I wrote.

What would you like me to clarify?

[ma318]

I think another way to state Flyer's idea is this:

If you can lower your ISO and decrease your aperture at x-sync speed to the point which would cut out the ambient light and still have enough flash power to reach your subject, then X-sync would be better for freezing high speed motion. (as shown in the OP's first 3 examples) Also you have to keep in mind that you need to fire the flash at a low enough power setting that would give you a short enough flash duration to freeze the motion .

If you can not cut out the ambient light, then you might be better off with HSS and a fast shutter speed to try to freeze high speed motion. In this case, depending on the speed of the subject and the way it is moving, you may still get subject distortion.

If you can not cut out the ambient light and use x-sync to freeze high speed movement, then the exposure from the ambient light will show blur while the exposure from flash will be frozen. The total combined effect is still blur movement.

[BBear]

In a rather subdued lighting with fast moving subject, regular flash will be better than HSS.

What would you like me to clarify?

I went over it again, and the last sentence kinda clear things up.

Stardust was saying that HSS may NOT be suitable for dynamic shooting, and he is correct. You said it could be used, but depending on the velocity.

I guess you are right.

But more likely than not, if something is moving, it will get "washed" with the HSS light and that'll show as blurry in the photo.

For static objects, HSS would work as designed.

[BBear]

ma318,

You are all over the place... with few things right and many wrong... it is kinda funny actually... in a good way, because it seems you are learning about this.

Good luck buddy,


BB

[ma318]

Bear, I don't see anything wrong, in a technical sense, with my last post. But I do want to learn together with each other. If you can point out the shortcomings, I would appreciate it very much.

(Sometimes I may not have expressed my idea clearly so that could also be the problem. And that, of course, should always be the author's (i.e. my) responsibility.

I also just realized that my above post would make more sense to those who use their camera in Manual mode and their flash also in Manual mode.)

[BBear]

If you can lower your ISO and decrease your aperture at x-sync speed to the point which would cut out the ambient light and still have enough flash power to reach your subject, then X-sync would be better for freezing motion. (as shown in the OP's first 3 examples)

The ambient light was already cutoff. The only light being captured was the flash light. This is confirmed by the fact that from 1/90 > 1/180, the fan was "frozen" (and also by the fact that I turned off the flash to make sure I'd get a black frame )

The problem is not the flash power.

Also you have to keep in mind that you need to fire the flash at a low enough power setting that would give you a short enough flash duration to freeze the motion .

I was shooting in TTL, so power is calculated as needed. And the duration of the flash in regular TTL (not HSS) is a single flash, which frozen the frame in the 3 pictures shown.

Once in HSS, the flash duration was no longer a single shot, but multiple small shots. Once again, I am not controlling the power, the TTL is, in both non-HSS and HSS modes.

If you can not cut out the ambient light, then you might be better off with HSS and a fast shutter speed to try to freeze motion. In this case, depending on the speed of the subject and the way it is moving, you may still get subject distortion.

I think you are right. So basically comes back to the idea that static objects work better with HSS than moving objects.

If you can not cut out the ambient light and use x-sync, then the exposure from the ambient light will show blur while the exposure from flash will be frozen. The total combined effect is still blur movement.

I think you are right, but i can't find a situation like this. I real life, shooting against the blue sky, one may need to use HSS. But the blur will come only from the sibject moving fast enough, and not from the ambient light. Again, I am trying to come up with a situation to fit your scenario here and I cant.

[ma318]

Bear,

I think I understand the issue. My statements were meant to be general statements. The "you" in the statements was not meant to be addressed specifically to you (again it's the author's, my, fault for not being clear). It is meant to address to anyone who wants to freeze high speed movement in a future photo shoot using Manual control.

For anyone using TTL (or p-TTL) then what I said may not make too much sense or be very useful. It makes more sense and is useful if the photographer is shooting in Manual mode (camera and flash). But I am sure for those who shoot in Manual, they would have already known about this technique.

For statement #3, I think it would be more clear when one realizes that a flash photo at x-sync speed is really a double exposures. One exposure at x-sync speed using the ambient light to light up the subject and another separate exposure from the flash at the duration of the flash. These two exposures are combined into a single photo inside the camera. If the subject is moving so fast that one could see motion blur when shot at 1/180 shutter speed without flash, then one would also see this motion blur when the same scene is shot using the same setting (1/180 shutter speed) with the flash.

Thanks