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02-07-2010, 08:26 PM   #1
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Looking for panoramic info/tips.....

As I have mentioned in a couple of other posts - where I have gotten very helpful information on wide-angle lenses, tripods & places to see - this summer we're going to take our family vacation to the Grand Canyon. I'm thinking there MIGHT be a few opportunities for a panoramic photo or two but I have never attempted anything like that in my life (short of taking "panoramics" with my Zx-5n back in the day).

So, what I'm wondering is:

1) Does anyone have any suggestions on a place or two to go (books, web sites, or????) for some beginner tips? I've got some months to learn what to do or not to do with respect to getting the photo(s), so if I can just get some ideas on taking the "right" pictures that'd be great. I can always learn how to stitch them together, and monkey around with them after we get back - assuming I "get the shots" while we're there.

2) Does anyone have any recommendations on either what to get or what to avoid when it comes to the processing software? I've got a Mac, and I use Aperture for all my processing stuff - so I'd be interested in either a plug-in for Aperture, or separate software that runs on a Mac. I'm not looking for something that has every bell & whistle known to man - just something that can do a decent job of stitching together and making corrections.

I do know that shooting portrait might be preferred - to give you more sky/foreground, I think I've seen people say to overlap about 1/3rd of the photo in other discussions I've seen in the past, and I will be bringing along my travel tripod, so I won't be trying to make these shots hand-held - but outside of that I don't have a clue.

Thanks in advance for any help, info, or pointing towards resources that you can provide....

Tim

02-07-2010, 09:08 PM   #2
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Hugin is free

STOIK PanoramaMaker and Calico Panorama are reasonably priced.

Arcsoft Panorama Maker 5 and Panoweaver are a bit pricier but can export QuickTime VR.

The Hugin site has some tutorials.
02-07-2010, 09:16 PM   #3
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couple of good threads on this recently

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-techniques-styles/883...ma-advice.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-techniques-styles/860...-question.html
02-07-2010, 09:26 PM   #4
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The technicalities of fisheye/wideangle and stitched panoramas are discussed in many threads here. I'll take a different approach: Don't just re-shoot from spots where zillions of panos have already been shot (and not just because of PHOTON DEPLETION, heh heh). Look for different vistas. Numerous points on the South Rim are available. Don't ignore the North Rim (even though it's a long drive), and canyons of the Little Colorado and other tributaries, and the Vermillion Cliffs, Hopi mesas, Marble Canyon, Walnut Canyon, the dinosaur tracks and hoodoos around Tuba City, etc. And Zion and Bryce and Cedar Breaks and Jerome aren't far. There's a LOT of spectacular wide scenery around and between Flagstaff and St George. The AAA Indian Country map is a must-have guide. Enjoy.

02-08-2010, 01:05 PM   #5
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There are a few things you need to check:

Use M mode for all shots. To avoid exposure problems, make some light measurements before you begin. Find a suitable average exposure and make sure you are using same iso, aperature and shutter speed values for all shots.

If you are familiar with the concept of hyper focal point, use manual focus, set aperature to f/8-11 and shoot at hyperfocal distance. On some lenses focus point also shifts the field of view and you might end up with awkward scaling on photos.

Remove your Polarizing filter. Although it helps for single shots, the polarizing effect will just wreak havoc on your stitching software's calculations.

Make vertical shots instead of horizontal. You'll be doing more shots, but extra width on the panorama helps in the final result.

Check for moving objects and make sure that they are not positioned at overlapping areas. Vehicles are a big problem...sometimes people are too. Avoid them whenever possible.

As long as there is enough light, motion blur won't be a problem for hand help shooting. For low light you'll need to use a tripod.

That's what comes to my mind for now.
02-08-2010, 01:08 PM   #6
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I'd like to ask a question related to this. What are the technical criteria that Panos are judged on by panopeople themselves? Not aesthetic - technical
02-08-2010, 07:14 PM   #7
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I have read that sunrise and and starting an hour prior to sunset are the best times. I would take a look at google earth as to good locations to shoot from based on the pictures displayed there. Its a good starting point as to get ideas on how to and what to shoot, along with the anticipated results.

There are also nearby locations to visit, the painted desert, Antelope Canyon (upper and lower). There is also a steam train running to and from Williams AZ that might be interesting.

I understand that the new glass walkway does not allow cameras to be taken out there at all.

02-08-2010, 07:38 PM   #8
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some useful info here and at the bottom of their page

How to shoot photos for a panorama

http://www.pcworld.com/article/126211/digital_focus_shooting_photos_for_panoramas_part_1.html
02-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
I'd like to ask a question related to this. What are the technical criteria that Panos are judged on by panopeople themselves? Not aesthetic - technical
The top ones (that I'm used to) are:

1) aesthetics The type of pano (location, lighting, novelty) and yes, there are compositional rules for panoramas!

2) quality of image(s) Appropriate exposure, sharpness, depth-of-field

3) quality of the stitch If it's stitched from multiple frames. Crazy panopeople can spot a 1-pixel discrepancy in a gigapixel pano!

As an example, here is a "technically bad" pano that I did a while ago:
Toronto Dockside in Winter

To address the above points, in order: 1) interesting lighting, but boring location, and lots of footprints in the snow but no people. 2) Sharp, but the tonemapping to even out the exposure produced big, soft "halos" around the trees and buildings. 3) Stitching errors! Zoom into the far horizon or the tops of the tan buildings - (the horror!)

Posted it for my panobuddies, and they didn't even bother saying "nice, but..." it was straight into the problems. But hey, I still like it! The sky really did look like that, and I could show (non-pano) folks what the harbour in Toronto looks like when frozen over.

NB: my example is a 360 VR, but any pano would have the same requirements and potential problems. 360's are just harder to start with.

Last edited by panoguy; 02-08-2010 at 08:52 PM. Reason: NB
02-09-2010, 01:58 AM   #10
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Great help, thanks Panoguy
02-09-2010, 12:28 PM   #11
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Thanks to all for the info an resources so far. Glad I've still got a few months to go over things, and maybe even practive some.
One question i forgot to pose in my original post was what do you that take pano's find to be a "good" focal length? I'm assuming it's not something real long, so on the short/medium end I have the following to choose from:

DA 12-24
DA 18-55 (kit)
DA* 50-135

I also have my old M 50/1.7 from my ME Super too - although I've only hooked that up to a DSLR a couple of times, so I'd have to get some more practice with settings on that if I were to use it.

I assume that if you use a zoom for panos, you want to be at one end or the other of the lens, so that you can be sure that you have the same focal length on each shot? Would the 12-24 be the best choice from the list above - or does that give you too much sky, foreground, or both? Or maybe the M50 is best because zooms don't work all that well?

Any more advice - so once all the white is gone from everything around here I can go out and practice - would be appreciated.......again........

Tim
02-09-2010, 01:14 PM   #12
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its really going to depend on what you are shooting on which lens would be best. for something as big as the grand canyon I would probably use the 12-24. Of course you can also use a longer focal length, but then you will just need to shoot more images to stitch
02-10-2010, 01:20 PM   #13
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With your selection of lenses, I would use the DA 12-24/4 in portrait orientation, with at least 25% overlap between shots, and use a tripod. Using a tripod is not essential, but it makes the stitching a lot easier.

Because you want to overlap in order to stitch, you don't want to use the kit lens, because of the barrel distortion. The 12-24 has minimal distortion, but you will still need to de-fish it a bit.

To keep all your colours and focus correct, you must:
  1. Use manual exposure. This avoids mismatched densities where the images meet
  2. Use manual white balance. This avoids the changes in colour that happen with the change in angle of your shot. As you include more or less of the sky, your white balance will change on auto.
  3. Use manual focus. This will maintain a consistent depth of field.
  4. Enhancements:
    1. Level the tripod head side to side and front to back. This will make the images take in the same amount of the view, allowing maximum opportunity to fine tune the final result.
    2. Use a special tripod head that allows you to turn the camera on the lens node, reducing the differing edge distortions (those wide people on the edges of your wide angle group shots). I take few panoramic photos, so I have not paid up for this. If I were taking a lot of panoramic photos, and I were planning to sell them, this would be a worthwhile investment.
  5. Most important of all: HAVE FUN!
02-10-2010, 05:26 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
With your selection of lenses, I would use the DA 12-24/4 in portrait orientation, with at least 25% overlap between shots, and use a tripod. Using a tripod is not essential, but it makes the stitching a lot easier.

Because you want to overlap in order to stitch, you don't want to use the kit lens, because of the barrel distortion. The 12-24 has minimal distortion, but you will still need to de-fish it a bit.
Great advice, fellow Canuck. However, the "de-fish" need doesn't really apply to most stitching software, as they can and will calibrate the distortion of the lens and try to negate it to get a better stitch. Most of my panos are shot with a 10-17mm at 10mm - seriously fished and distorted!

Every stitcher I've tried recently (Stitcher, PTGui, Hugin, PanoramaFactory, Photoshop CS4) will produce a pano that has no hint of the individual frame distortion (bent vertical lines, etc.) unless I choose an output type that shows this distortion *for the whole pano* in order to realistically show the scale of things in the view (minimizing another kind of distortion!).

Incidentally, all of the software I mentioned also handles the rather curious forms of distortion like "moustache" and "barrel/pinch" distortions from wide-angle lenses - typically without problems. The reason they can do this is because they break the image down into multiple types of distortion removal rather than trying to undistort the whole image with a single "reverse distortion" like a de-fish.
02-10-2010, 06:29 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I have read that sunrise and and starting an hour prior to sunset are the best times.....
Quite true! My sister and I stayed for the popular sunset and we were glad we did. We arrived at our motel at midnight, fortunately I called ahead to say we were way behind schedule.

Remember, The Grand Canyon is a long ways from anyplace. A town that appears on the map to be close by can take hours to get to.
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