"Seeing" in B&W

FHPhotographer · 02-11-2010, 12:24 PM

I often convert to B&W, but as we all know not every color image makes a good B&W. So I'm using the following technique on the K20 that helps "seeing" in B&W:

Camera to B&W >No Filter > default Toning and Contrast > Sharpness all the way up + Fine Sharpness on
Mode Format to RAW+jpeg
Bracket around +/- 1EV

Now you've got a series of immediate B&Ws with enough suggestion of the available tonal range once the RAW file is converted to judge if you got what you wanted, need to make adjustments to get the best possible conversion image, or bag it as a B&W conversion all together.

Brian

Graystar · 02-11-2010, 01:22 PM

I love B&W! You can make crappy pics look like they're supposed to be good pics...like this!

I use Photoshop Elements 5 because I'm too cheap to upgrade. (

) Its B&W function provides 6 B&W styles to select from...and they differ by quite a bit. So I usually wait until I'm back at the computer to mess with a B&W conversion.

Damn Brit · 02-11-2010, 02:04 PM

Where are the settings for B&W please? Maybe I'm just blind but I was looking for them last year for a school assignment and couldn't find them. Luckily as no one else in the school has or is familiar with Pentax DSLRS (sad ain't it?

) I was able to say "can't do it" and they believed me.

Jim Royal · 02-11-2010, 02:17 PM

I find that I usually know if a given photo will be black-and-white before I press the shutter button. Sometimes, I do make that choice after the fact, but not often. For me, B&W shots are usually about texture and especially patterms, whereas my colour shots tend to be more representattional. I know some photographers love abstract colour shots, but I've never been able to see colour in abstract ways.

The choice to shoot for a later B&W conversion also influences choices made at the time the photo is taken. If I know that a shot will be B&W, I can go for silhouettes, deliberately hard shadows or overexposed whites, or high levels of noise in ways that would be ugly in a colour photo, but which make aesthetic sense in B&W.

stevebrot · 02-11-2010, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Where are the settings for B&W please? Maybe I'm just blind but I was looking for them last year for a school assignment and couldn't find them. Luckily as no one else in the school has or is familiar with Pentax DSLRS (sad ain't it?

) I was able to say "can't do it" and they believed me.

I can't find this feature on the K10D...

Steve

RBellavance · 02-11-2010, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Where are the settings for B&W please?

It's one of the "picture styles", alongside "Natural", "Bright", etc.

Originally posted by Jim Royal

I find that I usually know if a given photo will be black-and-white before I press the shutter button.

Same thing for me. However, I really like having the possibility to "go back" to color afforded by the B&W RAW+JPG setting, as explained by the OP.

This thread reminds me that I need to put my K-7 back in B&W mode, to continue my experiment of learning to "read the light" (somewhat inspired by the following article on TOP: The Online Photographer: The Leica as Teacher)

RBellavance · 02-11-2010, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I can't find this feature on the K10D...

Haa, no. It first appeared on the K20D. Sorry...

stevebrot · 02-11-2010, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by RBellavance

Haa, no. It first appeared on the K20D. Sorry...

Whew...That's a relief! I thought I pretty much knew my camera inside and out and the idea of a feature I was unaware of was alarming

Steve

(Feeling mildly inferior having such an old camera...)

Ecaterin · 02-11-2010, 03:14 PM

*thinks thinky thoughts*

I think my decision is based on shape and contrast. If the photo is about outlines of shapes - silhouettes or textures or un-busy geometric shapes, I'll run it through a bunch of different B&W treatments and see what I like best. If the photo is about contrast, same thing (all the better if the contrast didn't turn out so good in the color - like mountains).

If the photo is about richness or subtlety of color, it won't even occur to me to try it in B&W. Sometimes later I'll look at the photo through my B&W brain and go, oh! I was looking at that wonderful color, but look at the LINES! QUICK! TO THE B&W MOBILE!

I think going back and forth between B&W and color on many photos has taught me a huge amount about what makes a photo work....and what so definitely doesn't

Since most of mine are in category B, I must be learning lots, right?

RioRico · 02-11-2010, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

(Feeling mildly inferior having such an old camera...)

Before buying the K20D, I had a few Sony PNS's, including a P20 (1mpx) and W7 (7mpx), which have a B&W mode. I could preview scenes on their LCD screens in B&W, a great help, same as setting the K20D to mono and checking LiveView. Why, back when I shot Verichrome Pan in my YashicaMat, or Tri-X in an Oly OM-1, I could only see colors in the finders, not the B&W of the final prints. How rude! How did anybody ever shoot good B&W before we had mono preview screens?

02-11-2010, 12:24 PM	#1
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297	"Seeing" in B&W I often convert to B&W, but as we all know not every color image makes a good B&W. So I'm using the following technique on the K20 that helps "seeing" in B&W: Camera to B&W >No Filter > default Toning and Contrast > Sharpness all the way up + Fine Sharpness on Mode Format to RAW+jpeg Bracket around +/- 1EV Now you've got a series of immediate B&Ws with enough suggestion of the available tonal range once the RAW file is converted to judge if you got what you wanted, need to make adjustments to get the best possible conversion image, or bag it as a B&W conversion all together. Brian

02-11-2010, 01:22 PM	#2
Graystar Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 144	I love B&W! You can make crappy pics look like they're supposed to be good pics...like this! I use Photoshop Elements 5 because I'm too cheap to upgrade. () Its B&W function provides 6 B&W styles to select from...and they differ by quite a bit. So I usually wait until I'm back at the computer to mess with a B&W conversion.

02-11-2010, 02:04 PM	#3
Damn Brit Guest	Where are the settings for B&W please? Maybe I'm just blind but I was looking for them last year for a school assignment and couldn't find them. Luckily as no one else in the school has or is familiar with Pentax DSLRS (sad ain't it?) I was able to say "can't do it" and they believed me.

02-11-2010, 02:33 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Damn Brit Where are the settings for B&W please? Maybe I'm just blind but I was looking for them last year for a school assignment and couldn't find them. Luckily as no one else in the school has or is familiar with Pentax DSLRS (sad ain't it?) I was able to say "can't do it" and they believed me. I can't find this feature on the K10D... Steve

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02-11-2010, 02:17 PM	#4
Jim Royal Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 179	I find that I usually know if a given photo will be black-and-white before I press the shutter button. Sometimes, I do make that choice after the fact, but not often. For me, B&W shots are usually about texture and especially patterms, whereas my colour shots tend to be more representattional. I know some photographers love abstract colour shots, but I've never been able to see colour in abstract ways. The choice to shoot for a later B&W conversion also influences choices made at the time the photo is taken. If I know that a shot will be B&W, I can go for silhouettes, deliberately hard shadows or overexposed whites, or high levels of noise in ways that would be ugly in a colour photo, but which make aesthetic sense in B&W.

02-11-2010, 02:36 PM	#6
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by Damn Brit Where are the settings for B&W please? It's one of the "picture styles", alongside "Natural", "Bright", etc. Originally posted by Jim Royal I find that I usually know if a given photo will be black-and-white before I press the shutter button. Same thing for me. However, I really like having the possibility to "go back" to color afforded by the B&W RAW+JPG setting, as explained by the OP. This thread reminds me that I need to put my K-7 back in B&W mode, to continue my experiment of learning to "read the light" (somewhat inspired by the following article on TOP: The Online Photographer: The Leica as Teacher)

02-11-2010, 02:37 PM	#7
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by stevebrot I can't find this feature on the K10D... Haa, no. It first appeared on the K20D. Sorry...

02-11-2010, 03:03 PM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by RBellavance Haa, no. It first appeared on the K20D. Sorry... Whew...That's a relief! I thought I pretty much knew my camera inside and out and the idea of a feature I was unaware of was alarming Steve (Feeling mildly inferior having such an old camera...)

02-11-2010, 03:14 PM	#9
Ecaterin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 723	thinks thinky thoughts I think my decision is based on shape and contrast. If the photo is about outlines of shapes - silhouettes or textures or un-busy geometric shapes, I'll run it through a bunch of different B&W treatments and see what I like best. If the photo is about contrast, same thing (all the better if the contrast didn't turn out so good in the color - like mountains). If the photo is about richness or subtlety of color, it won't even occur to me to try it in B&W. Sometimes later I'll look at the photo through my B&W brain and go, oh! I was looking at that wonderful color, but look at the LINES! QUICK! TO THE B&W MOBILE! I think going back and forth between B&W and color on many photos has taught me a huge amount about what makes a photo work....and what so definitely doesn't Since most of mine are in category B, I must be learning lots, right?

02-11-2010, 05:42 PM	#10
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by stevebrot (Feeling mildly inferior having such an old camera...) Before buying the K20D, I had a few Sony PNS's, including a P20 (1mpx) and W7 (7mpx), which have a B&W mode. I could preview scenes on their LCD screens in B&W, a great help, same as setting the K20D to mono and checking LiveView. Why, back when I shot Verichrome Pan in my YashicaMat, or Tri-X in an Oly OM-1, I could only see colors in the finders, not the B&W of the final prints. How rude! How did anybody ever shoot good B&W before we had mono preview screens?