Aerial 2nd Attempt

icywarm · 03-01-2010, 02:31 AM

I am hoping this is the right place for this, I am making the mods work too hard moving my posts!

I am trying to find the 'best length' for aerial photos for me. I took 18-55, 55-300 and hated trying to switch lenses. This time I took 70mm Ltd. I think these three photos show how working with the pilot I can go from a tight photo, to a small group to a range, but I welcome thoughts on them... I ref hockey, so you can make the feed back colourful, I've heard it all!

The sky was white, the ground was white, and the mills are white, so I tried black and white, but any other thoughts on dealing with colour and lighting well flying would be great too...

One Mill

Two Mills

Wind Mills

focused · 03-01-2010, 10:48 AM

I like the first one very much, it is minimalistic and the shadows of the land are wonderful.

With 70mm alone, communicating with the pilot is essential to get both close-wide angles. But why did you say you hated switching your lens in the former flying? Vibrations, dust or something else?

icywarm · 03-01-2010, 10:59 AM

I couldn't stow it safely enough and later change lens quickly, I found myself missing 'shots'

If I could toss it on the seat beside me and not worry about lose object in the cockpit it may have been ok.

I am going for a 6 hour cross country on Sunday, I might bring the DA16-45 and/or the M200.

georgweb · 03-01-2010, 11:22 AM

I think you have done a good job using the 77. With the snow cover you could try underexposing a little to get the b+w more snappy. I see you have about a 90° angle to the sun in all pics. This gives you the most snap and you could extend it with a polarizer too.

I don't know about that 77 for a 6 hour trip, though. If you have vast mountain ranges on the way or likewise cloud formations you will probably not get them with the 77 unless you are really quick with successive stitch shots and can do the postprocess.

I am a thermal paraglider pilot so I am basically always high (physically not mentally!) and do the landscape thing. You seem to be on the low side and keen on details so why not risk it with a fixed length like the 77. The 16-45 in AV-mode at f/9 and -0.7 EV would be my choice for a start. Try to include the horizon in some of the shots, could be interesting.

A rubber hood to flexibly rest on the window paine to avoid reflection is another way to improve IQ a little.

You must have been glued to the TV yesterday, it was a great game!
Have a good day flying,
Georg

Last edited by georgweb; 03-01-2010 at 11:28 AM.

icywarm · 03-01-2010, 05:59 PM

I wish I had mountains to shot... I have 500 miles of this:

With out unlimited visibility it is very tough to get a good horizon.

But I am interested in trying the rubber lens hood against the window. My pilot is not overly comfortable with opening the 172 windows in flight, so for now I need to try cleaning the windows before take-off. The old boys hanging around the hanger get a real kick out of me, cleaning the windows like an old women.

georgweb · 03-02-2010, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by icywarm

With out unlimited visibility it is very tough to get a good horizon.

There you have shown it, and that is my #1 problem from the start: The dreaded haze in any pic going into the distance. You can try reducing it by shooting with the sun in the back and using a polarizer (obviously a compromise between 90°=maximum pol. effect and 180°=zero pol. effect).

Furthermore a reddish/orange filter ('skylight' or heavier color) can cut the haze too. The final logic of reddish filters is to use a near opaque red filter (a.k.a. infrared photography). Basically it's all about cutting the red end of the color spectrum cause that is the main culprit of haze (which basically is water vapor). Low temperatures and dry air (interdependent) is another contributor to less haze - you have the same effect by simply climbing with the plane up into dryer and colder air, leaving the haze beneath you.

Shooting in early morning and late evening also helps this cause.

Using a wider angle lens does help this too cause you are catching more information from what is a limited-information per square environment.

Just fly over a desert and it'll be allright :-)

**pacerr** · 03-04-2010, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by icywarm

I couldn't stow it safely enough and later change lens quickly, I found myself missing 'shots'

If I could toss it on the seat beside me and not worry about lose object in the cockpit it may have been ok.

See if you can find a photographer's vest or a fisherman's vest with large pockets. Or even make something similar by sewing pockets on a shirt. Someone handy with a sewing machine and some cut-off pants legs can make nifty seat-back storage aprons for many uses.

The trick is to hang it BACKWARDS on the seat NEXT to you - the pilot's seat in your case. You'll find it fairly easy to reach behind the seat next to you for lens access with your own seat set back as far as it will go and it avoids cockpit clutter too. The map pocket behind the seats definitely isn't a good choice for lenses -- the troll that lives there and wads up maps 'll trash a lens too.

You can gain room to swing a cat (as the ol' Navy saying goes) by removing the right front seat and sitting in the back row for special project flights. We once built a custom storage chest/desk for a C-206 that attached to the rails of the right front seat for a mapping and survey job.

Most of those old C-172 windows are pretty dull. Get an head lamp restoration kit at a auto parts store or Walmart and use a little elbow grease and you can clean 'em up like new. It's cheaper than the plexi-glass polish sold for aircraft and works just as well. If the ol' farts get grumpy about it, ask 'em to contribute some of their expensive stuff to finish the job.

H2

icywarm · 03-05-2010, 12:50 AM

Excellent ideas! We couldn't get the C-172, but we are really hoping someone cancels for Sunday or it is 8 hours in a C-152! Lucky for me the old guys are too busy staring at the young skirts that are working on their private licences to notice me out before dawn buffing windows in the barn. I will bring my day pack and hang it on rafs seat.

**pacerr** · 03-05-2010, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by icywarm

... 8 hours in a C-152!

Allow me to pontificate OT a bit. (I trust you folks in the Land Up Yonder are smarter than this, but I just can't resist. An ol' Flt Safety guy habit. )

Eight hours airborne in ANYTHING can cover a lot of inhospitable terrain and end up in places you wouldn't want to walk to or from.

I once refused to let a student do a X-country from KRNO to KSAC across the Sierras in a T-SHIRT and SHORTS. An' he couldn't understand why! Heck, it was 40 C on the ramp.

But... he didn't have a Pentax SLR with 'im to ward off hypothermia if he had to stop mid way.

(Hey, I kept it Pentax related after all, eh.)

H2

icywarm · 03-05-2010, 02:59 PM

Wish I had a 1200mm, I could use it to club a cougar to death and wear the pelts back to civilization! Failing that we do have the winter survival kit...

CRPhoto · 03-05-2010, 04:08 PM

Nice BW pictures. I use my Sigma 70-200mm for the aerials. I mostly shoot buildings and proyects. With this lens I usually fly around 1000ft above ground level. I also use the 16-50 DA* for some wider views. I fly in a C206 with the copilot window open. A 172 or a 152 with the open window will not have any problems.

Some samples:

I also don't like switching lens in flight but I have to sometimes. What I do is to have my camera bag open and the lens accesible. Keep the caps in my shirt pocket and make the change as quickly as posible (i turn off the camera while switching).
Good luck and enjoy the flight!

Ira · 03-12-2010, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by icywarm

Two Mills

Wind Mills

What's all that white crap on the ground?

icywarm · 03-12-2010, 12:43 PM

Clearly the white stuff is black soil, the pic is just black and white, so I just inverted the colours and made a negative

Hey and it is not like Fl has been that warm this winter, I was there a month back and it was only like 45 or 50 for the week!

Ira · 03-12-2010, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by icywarm

Clearly the white stuff is black soil, the pic is just black and white, so I just inverted the colours and made a negative

Hey and it is not like Fl has been that warm this winter, I was there a month back and it was only like 45 or 50 for the week!

Our coldest winter in YEARS!

But I gotta tell you:

You live in real beauty, and I think Florida can be pretty dull. I miss mountains and streams and lakes and diverse fauna.

But coming down here from NY 18 years ago, I just can't handle the cold weather any more. Like, your blood thins or something.

It's a curse, with all of the great places in the country to live, but you won't move there if it requires a sweater.

03-02-2010, 04:38 AM	#6
georgweb Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,386	Originally posted by icywarm With out unlimited visibility it is very tough to get a good horizon. There you have shown it, and that is my #1 problem from the start: The dreaded haze in any pic going into the distance. You can try reducing it by shooting with the sun in the back and using a polarizer (obviously a compromise between 90°=maximum pol. effect and 180°=zero pol. effect). Furthermore a reddish/orange filter ('skylight' or heavier color) can cut the haze too. The final logic of reddish filters is to use a near opaque red filter (a.k.a. infrared photography). Basically it's all about cutting the red end of the color spectrum cause that is the main culprit of haze (which basically is water vapor). Low temperatures and dry air (interdependent) is another contributor to less haze - you have the same effect by simply climbing with the plane up into dryer and colder air, leaving the haze beneath you. Shooting in early morning and late evening also helps this cause. Using a wider angle lens does help this too cause you are catching more information from what is a limited-information per square environment. Just fly over a desert and it'll be allright :-) Last edited by georgweb; 03-02-2010 at 04:44 AM.

03-05-2010, 01:05 PM	#9
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,349	Yukkk! Originally posted by icywarm ... 8 hours in a C-152! Allow me to pontificate OT a bit. (I trust you folks in the Land Up Yonder are smarter than this, but I just can't resist. An ol' Flt Safety guy habit. ) Eight hours airborne in ANYTHING can cover a lot of inhospitable terrain and end up in places you wouldn't want to walk to or from. I once refused to let a student do a X-country from KRNO to KSAC across the Sierras in a T-SHIRT and SHORTS. An' he couldn't understand why! Heck, it was 40 C on the ramp. But... he didn't have a Pentax SLR with 'im to ward off hypothermia if he had to stop mid way. (Hey, I kept it Pentax related after all, eh.) H2

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03-01-2010, 02:31 AM	#1
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278	Aerial 2nd Attempt I am hoping this is the right place for this, I am making the mods work too hard moving my posts! I am trying to find the 'best length' for aerial photos for me. I took 18-55, 55-300 and hated trying to switch lenses. This time I took 70mm Ltd. I think these three photos show how working with the pilot I can go from a tight photo, to a small group to a range, but I welcome thoughts on them... I ref hockey, so you can make the feed back colourful, I've heard it all! The sky was white, the ground was white, and the mills are white, so I tried black and white, but any other thoughts on dealing with colour and lighting well flying would be great too... One Mill Two Mills Wind Mills

03-01-2010, 10:48 AM	#2
focused New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Romania Posts: 22	I like the first one very much, it is minimalistic and the shadows of the land are wonderful. With 70mm alone, communicating with the pilot is essential to get both close-wide angles. But why did you say you hated switching your lens in the former flying? Vibrations, dust or something else?

03-01-2010, 10:59 AM	#3
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	I couldn't stow it safely enough and later change lens quickly, I found myself missing 'shots' If I could toss it on the seat beside me and not worry about lose object in the cockpit it may have been ok. I am going for a 6 hour cross country on Sunday, I might bring the DA16-45 and/or the M200.

03-01-2010, 11:22 AM	#4
georgweb Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,386	I think you have done a good job using the 77. With the snow cover you could try underexposing a little to get the b+w more snappy. I see you have about a 90° angle to the sun in all pics. This gives you the most snap and you could extend it with a polarizer too. I don't know about that 77 for a 6 hour trip, though. If you have vast mountain ranges on the way or likewise cloud formations you will probably not get them with the 77 unless you are really quick with successive stitch shots and can do the postprocess. I am a thermal paraglider pilot so I am basically always high (physically not mentally!) and do the landscape thing. You seem to be on the low side and keen on details so why not risk it with a fixed length like the 77. The 16-45 in AV-mode at f/9 and -0.7 EV would be my choice for a start. Try to include the horizon in some of the shots, could be interesting. A rubber hood to flexibly rest on the window paine to avoid reflection is another way to improve IQ a little. You must have been glued to the TV yesterday, it was a great game! Have a good day flying, Georg Last edited by georgweb; 03-01-2010 at 11:28 AM.

03-01-2010, 05:59 PM	#5
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	I wish I had mountains to shot... I have 500 miles of this: With out unlimited visibility it is very tough to get a good horizon. But I am interested in trying the rubber lens hood against the window. My pilot is not overly comfortable with opening the 172 windows in flight, so for now I need to try cleaning the windows before take-off. The old boys hanging around the hanger get a real kick out of me, cleaning the windows like an old women.

03-04-2010, 11:52 PM	#7
pacerr Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Paris, TN Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,349	Originally posted by icywarm I couldn't stow it safely enough and later change lens quickly, I found myself missing 'shots' If I could toss it on the seat beside me and not worry about lose object in the cockpit it may have been ok. See if you can find a photographer's vest or a fisherman's vest with large pockets. Or even make something similar by sewing pockets on a shirt. Someone handy with a sewing machine and some cut-off pants legs can make nifty seat-back storage aprons for many uses. The trick is to hang it BACKWARDS on the seat NEXT to you - the pilot's seat in your case. You'll find it fairly easy to reach behind the seat next to you for lens access with your own seat set back as far as it will go and it avoids cockpit clutter too. The map pocket behind the seats definitely isn't a good choice for lenses -- the troll that lives there and wads up maps 'll trash a lens too. You can gain room to swing a cat (as the ol' Navy saying goes) by removing the right front seat and sitting in the back row for special project flights. We once built a custom storage chest/desk for a C-206 that attached to the rails of the right front seat for a mapping and survey job. Most of those old C-172 windows are pretty dull. Get an head lamp restoration kit at a auto parts store or Walmart and use a little elbow grease and you can clean 'em up like new. It's cheaper than the plexi-glass polish sold for aircraft and works just as well. If the ol' farts get grumpy about it, ask 'em to contribute some of their expensive stuff to finish the job. H2

03-05-2010, 12:50 AM	#8
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	Excellent ideas! We couldn't get the C-172, but we are really hoping someone cancels for Sunday or it is 8 hours in a C-152! Lucky for me the old guys are too busy staring at the young skirts that are working on their private licences to notice me out before dawn buffing windows in the barn. I will bring my day pack and hang it on rafs seat.

03-05-2010, 02:59 PM	#10
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	Wish I had a 1200mm, I could use it to club a cougar to death and wear the pelts back to civilization! Failing that we do have the winter survival kit...

03-05-2010, 04:08 PM	#11
CRPhoto Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: San Jose, Costa Rica Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 260	Nice BW pictures. I use my Sigma 70-200mm for the aerials. I mostly shoot buildings and proyects. With this lens I usually fly around 1000ft above ground level. I also use the 16-50 DA* for some wider views. I fly in a C206 with the copilot window open. A 172 or a 152 with the open window will not have any problems. Some samples: I also don't like switching lens in flight but I have to sometimes. What I do is to have my camera bag open and the lens accesible. Keep the caps in my shirt pocket and make the change as quickly as posible (i turn off the camera while switching). Good luck and enjoy the flight!

03-12-2010, 11:53 AM	#12
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by icywarm Two Mills Wind Mills What's all that white crap on the ground?

03-12-2010, 12:43 PM	#13
icywarm Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,278 Original Poster	Clearly the white stuff is black soil, the pic is just black and white, so I just inverted the colours and made a negative Hey and it is not like Fl has been that warm this winter, I was there a month back and it was only like 45 or 50 for the week!

03-12-2010, 03:23 PM	#14
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by icywarm Clearly the white stuff is black soil, the pic is just black and white, so I just inverted the colours and made a negative Hey and it is not like Fl has been that warm this winter, I was there a month back and it was only like 45 or 50 for the week! Our coldest winter in YEARS! But I gotta tell you: You live in real beauty, and I think Florida can be pretty dull. I miss mountains and streams and lakes and diverse fauna. But coming down here from NY 18 years ago, I just can't handle the cold weather any more. Like, your blood thins or something. It's a curse, with all of the great places in the country to live, but you won't move there if it requires a sweater.