Finding models

StarDust · 04-02-2010, 03:58 AM

Many of you here are amatuer photographers just as me and not trying to make money off of it (at least not as a living).
This goes out to the model photographers here belonging to the amatuer section.
How do you find models to shoot, without having to pay more than the pictures produced.
I know I can ask my friends but most of them are camera shy when it comes to anything beyond the normal snapshot.
Any suggestions? Is there any website for models looking for photographers? That would be cool actually!
To make things harder, if there is such a site, is it Sweden friendly since I'm not planning on taking a trip to the US for a photo shoot.

One possibility could be to join a photo club, although I'm already in a student photo club and it's not very active, but niether am I. I want to do it in my pace so I'm looking for alternatives.
A bonus would also be stylists willing to do the make-up. but that's wishful thinking.

bdery · 04-02-2010, 04:46 AM

I know of a friend who took photography classes at the university. There were many models there working for a fixed stipend. Maybe some of these models would be willing to work for cheap in order to build a portfolio. that could be a good place to start. A photo club would also be a great place to look, I guess. Or maybe local ads?

Last resort : go to bars, and offer a beer to prospective models

Ira · 04-02-2010, 07:51 AM

Boy, do I have stories to tell.

Go on Craigs List and offer your services in exchange for photos. Be sincere, and splurge a few bucks to give them some 8 by 10s in addition to digital files.

Everyone thinks they're a model.

pdo · 04-02-2010, 07:55 AM

you can join modelmayhem. At first it takes alot of work to get models or great models but once you build a great port then they will come. Now I get alot of inquiries to shoot but I'll turn most down and gets the girl with experience or great looks.

ModelMayhem.com - Paul Do - Photographer - Garden Grove, US

MRRiley · 04-02-2010, 08:14 AM

Model Mayhem and Model Brigade are both great resources...

Mike

Wheatfield · 04-02-2010, 09:17 AM

Model Mayhem, as others have mentioned, can be good, and time for CD (TFCD) is now well accepted as trade payment.
Just be prepared for flakes, and a lot of them.
I've pretty well decided to walk away from model photography because I am tired of having my time wasted by flakey people who don't realize that not showing up wastes several hours of my time.

StarDust · 04-03-2010, 02:13 PM

Thanks! I'll have to look that up as soon as I get some free-time. Been so busy with studies right now with two exams next week that my trigger finger is feeling really itchy. That means my brain has had lots of time for thinking about photography instead and come up with the insane idea of finding models to shoot

krypticide · 04-03-2010, 09:04 PM

ModelMayhem for me, though as Wheatfield says there are a lot of flakes on there. Even the ones who contact you wanting to shoot...sheesh. What happened to people respecting other people???

D4rknezz · 04-05-2010, 08:54 PM

This confuses me a little. I always thought there is business in being a photographer for people who wants to be model. But now there is apparently a website (modelmayhem) for people who aspires to be model, and photographers, to work together for a TFCD.

So...once you start doing this, as a photographer, where do you go for the business? A little confused.

MRRiley · 04-06-2010, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by D4rknezz

This confuses me a little. I always thought there is business in being a photographer for people who wants to be model. But now there is apparently a website (modelmayhem) for people who aspires to be model, and photographers, to work together for a TFCD.

So...once you start doing this, as a photographer, where do you go for the business? A little confused.

1. The person needing the photos the most is generally the one who pays. If a photographer wants photos for his portfolio or for a project, generally he pays the model. If a model wants photos for her portfolio (book) she pays (or doesn't... depending on the abilities/talent/etc of the photographer). If the shoot is an assignment or contracted, then most of the time, the photographer will pay the model and then pass the expense on to the client.

2. Generally only the top photographers or those in extreme demand can charge models cash money for portfolio shots and then it is mostly because at that point the model has become the client.

3. More models can get away with charging photographers than photographers can get away with charging models. Think of it like a movie. The performers, actors and actresses, don't pay to be in it, they are paid for acting. Models are performers who are paid to stand/lay/sit/etc in front of your camera.

4. There are a couple of ways to fly for free (not counting your or the model's time investment). Both of these provide images/photos that benefit both the photographer and the model. They both also insure that the photographer retains his full copyright and provide the model with a limited-use license for the photos

a. TFCD = "Trade For CD" - basically you provide the model with a CD containing the best shots for their portfolios. One copy of each photo is generally web-sized and includes a copyright notice and/or your logo. This copy is for her to use on any websites she may use. A second copy is generally an unmarked full-rez JPG suitable for printing up to about 11x14". Most TFCD agreements (contracts) stipulate that the model is only allowed to use this unmarked full-rez file for printing and is prohibited from posting it anywhere online.

b. TFP = "Trade for Prints" - an older and still common brother to TFCD. TFP simply means you give the model prints of the best photos rather than electronic copies.

So to answer your question, yes, there IS money to be made, shooting models, but I'd wager that only the top 5% of photographers can do so. Add then that they have to be in a location where models are common and looking for work so that they need fresh shots for their portfolios of a regular or frequent basis.

Frankly, if you want to make money (not great big gobs of it admittedly but money is money) shooting people, you are better off opening or working in a portrait studio or shooting weddings.

Mike

p.s. Models NEVER pay for nude shots unless its something they are going to give their boyfriend. And most will not do nude for TFCD/TFP.

D4rknezz · 04-06-2010, 10:53 AM

Ah Thanks for the information!

My understanding was a little off because i only had one example here, and he must be in the top 5 pro, or there must be something else that he does really well, because he was charging aspiring model for portfolio trip (takes them to vancouver, montreal), for several thousand dollar a trip. Bring 8 aspiring models, make a modest half a year salary in one week!

This is why i was so surprised to see modelmayhem website, where these aspiring models could have gotten their pictures for free.

The information clarified a lot of things for me : If I am not as good as this guy is, there is probably not a lot of money to be made shooting models for me.

Back to the drawing board

The thing is , i like post processing as much as i like shooting, and the more creative i am allowed to be, the more i like it. Which is why a typical studio and family huddle portrait does not appeal to me.

I saw this guy just 2 weeks ago :

SlickforceStudio ? You. Perfected.

I love the creative freedom he gets to have with his pictures.

falconeye · 04-06-2010, 11:01 AM

Adding to what MRRiley said ...

If you're new you will have no convincing argument for a model to be shot by you. You'll need to build your experience first. A good way to do so is to pay for attending a good workshop. Make sure there are no more than two photographers per model though.

It isn't more expensive than to pay for a model but you build up of experience and your portfolio is quicker. And if you're a nice guy you may actually end up being recommended

The feeding chain is simple too:
Nerd -> Model -> Photographer

The problem is that initially, any model must assume you're nerd, not photographer

A few other sites...

Model-Kartei.de | Startseite
(more important than modelmayhem in Germany, closer to Sweden. But only 3 models are living in Sweden actually

) And then there is Model.se |:::| Model and Photographer Community. But it is correct, modelmayhem may be your best option.

StarDust · 04-06-2010, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

And then there is Model.se |:::| Model and Photographer Community.

Checked it out right away, their search didn't require a login. I narrowed it down to beginner models in Sweden. I found two

Also I noticed that Modelmayhem requires a starting portfolio. Kind of an evil circle for me. I don't have many attractive women or men willing to be photographed around me and I'm required to have four different photos of at least two different models and two different locations. I'm going to have to work on that.

krypticide · 04-08-2010, 10:48 AM

You can either pay a little for some models, or just find some friends. Even if your "models" aren't great, I think that once you get your profile out there, people will see your style and technique and still be willing to test with you.

04-02-2010, 03:58 AM	#1
StarDust Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 400	Finding models Many of you here are amatuer photographers just as me and not trying to make money off of it (at least not as a living). This goes out to the model photographers here belonging to the amatuer section. How do you find models to shoot, without having to pay more than the pictures produced. I know I can ask my friends but most of them are camera shy when it comes to anything beyond the normal snapshot. Any suggestions? Is there any website for models looking for photographers? That would be cool actually! To make things harder, if there is such a site, is it Sweden friendly since I'm not planning on taking a trip to the US for a photo shoot. One possibility could be to join a photo club, although I'm already in a student photo club and it's not very active, but niether am I. I want to do it in my pace so I'm looking for alternatives. A bonus would also be stylists willing to do the make-up. but that's wishful thinking.

04-06-2010, 05:54 AM	#10
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	How the Modeling World Works - 101 Originally posted by D4rknezz This confuses me a little. I always thought there is business in being a photographer for people who wants to be model. But now there is apparently a website (modelmayhem) for people who aspires to be model, and photographers, to work together for a TFCD. So...once you start doing this, as a photographer, where do you go for the business? A little confused. 1. The person needing the photos the most is generally the one who pays. If a photographer wants photos for his portfolio or for a project, generally he pays the model. If a model wants photos for her portfolio (book) she pays (or doesn't... depending on the abilities/talent/etc of the photographer). If the shoot is an assignment or contracted, then most of the time, the photographer will pay the model and then pass the expense on to the client. 2. Generally only the top photographers or those in extreme demand can charge models cash money for portfolio shots and then it is mostly because at that point the model has become the client. 3. More models can get away with charging photographers than photographers can get away with charging models. Think of it like a movie. The performers, actors and actresses, don't pay to be in it, they are paid for acting. Models are performers who are paid to stand/lay/sit/etc in front of your camera. 4. There are a couple of ways to fly for free (not counting your or the model's time investment). Both of these provide images/photos that benefit both the photographer and the model. They both also insure that the photographer retains his full copyright and provide the model with a limited-use license for the photos a. TFCD = "Trade For CD" - basically you provide the model with a CD containing the best shots for their portfolios. One copy of each photo is generally web-sized and includes a copyright notice and/or your logo. This copy is for her to use on any websites she may use. A second copy is generally an unmarked full-rez JPG suitable for printing up to about 11x14". Most TFCD agreements (contracts) stipulate that the model is only allowed to use this unmarked full-rez file for printing and is prohibited from posting it anywhere online. b. TFP = "Trade for Prints" - an older and still common brother to TFCD. TFP simply means you give the model prints of the best photos rather than electronic copies. So to answer your question, yes, there IS money to be made, shooting models, but I'd wager that only the top 5% of photographers can do so. Add then that they have to be in a location where models are common and looking for work so that they need fresh shots for their portfolios of a regular or frequent basis. Frankly, if you want to make money (not great big gobs of it admittedly but money is money) shooting people, you are better off opening or working in a portrait studio or shooting weddings. Mike p.s. Models NEVER pay for nude shots unless its something they are going to give their boyfriend. And most will not do nude for TFCD/TFP. Last edited by MRRiley; 04-06-2010 at 09:26 AM. Reason: further clarification

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04-02-2010, 04:46 AM	#2
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	I know of a friend who took photography classes at the university. There were many models there working for a fixed stipend. Maybe some of these models would be willing to work for cheap in order to build a portfolio. that could be a good place to start. A photo club would also be a great place to look, I guess. Or maybe local ads? Last resort : go to bars, and offer a beer to prospective models

04-02-2010, 07:51 AM	#3
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Boy, do I have stories to tell. Go on Craigs List and offer your services in exchange for photos. Be sincere, and splurge a few bucks to give them some 8 by 10s in addition to digital files. Everyone thinks they're a model.

04-02-2010, 07:55 AM	#4
pdo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Westminster CA Posts: 264	you can join modelmayhem. At first it takes alot of work to get models or great models but once you build a great port then they will come. Now I get alot of inquiries to shoot but I'll turn most down and gets the girl with experience or great looks. ModelMayhem.com - Paul Do - Photographer - Garden Grove, US

04-02-2010, 08:14 AM	#5
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Model Mayhem and Model Brigade are both great resources... Mike

04-02-2010, 09:17 AM	#6
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Model Mayhem, as others have mentioned, can be good, and time for CD (TFCD) is now well accepted as trade payment. Just be prepared for flakes, and a lot of them. I've pretty well decided to walk away from model photography because I am tired of having my time wasted by flakey people who don't realize that not showing up wastes several hours of my time.

04-03-2010, 02:13 PM	#7
StarDust Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 400 Original Poster	Thanks! I'll have to look that up as soon as I get some free-time. Been so busy with studies right now with two exams next week that my trigger finger is feeling really itchy. That means my brain has had lots of time for thinking about photography instead and come up with the insane idea of finding models to shoot

04-03-2010, 09:04 PM	#8
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	ModelMayhem for me, though as Wheatfield says there are a lot of flakes on there. Even the ones who contact you wanting to shoot...sheesh. What happened to people respecting other people???

04-05-2010, 08:54 PM	#9
D4rknezz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,196	This confuses me a little. I always thought there is business in being a photographer for people who wants to be model. But now there is apparently a website (modelmayhem) for people who aspires to be model, and photographers, to work together for a TFCD. So...once you start doing this, as a photographer, where do you go for the business? A little confused.

04-06-2010, 10:53 AM	#11
D4rknezz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,196	Ah Thanks for the information! My understanding was a little off because i only had one example here, and he must be in the top 5 pro, or there must be something else that he does really well, because he was charging aspiring model for portfolio trip (takes them to vancouver, montreal), for several thousand dollar a trip. Bring 8 aspiring models, make a modest half a year salary in one week! This is why i was so surprised to see modelmayhem website, where these aspiring models could have gotten their pictures for free. The information clarified a lot of things for me : If I am not as good as this guy is, there is probably not a lot of money to be made shooting models for me. Back to the drawing board The thing is , i like post processing as much as i like shooting, and the more creative i am allowed to be, the more i like it. Which is why a typical studio and family huddle portrait does not appeal to me. I saw this guy just 2 weeks ago : SlickforceStudio ? You. Perfected. I love the creative freedom he gets to have with his pictures.

04-06-2010, 11:01 AM	#12
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Adding to what MRRiley said ... If you're new you will have no convincing argument for a model to be shot by you. You'll need to build your experience first. A good way to do so is to pay for attending a good workshop. Make sure there are no more than two photographers per model though. It isn't more expensive than to pay for a model but you build up of experience and your portfolio is quicker. And if you're a nice guy you may actually end up being recommended The feeding chain is simple too: Nerd -> Model -> Photographer The problem is that initially, any model must assume you're nerd, not photographer A few other sites... Model-Kartei.de \| Startseite (more important than modelmayhem in Germany, closer to Sweden. But only 3 models are living in Sweden actually ) And then there is Model.se \|:::\| Model and Photographer Community. But it is correct, modelmayhem may be your best option.

04-06-2010, 10:17 PM	#13
StarDust Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 400 Original Poster	Originally posted by falconeye And then there is Model.se \|:::\| Model and Photographer Community. Checked it out right away, their search didn't require a login. I narrowed it down to beginner models in Sweden. I found two Also I noticed that Modelmayhem requires a starting portfolio. Kind of an evil circle for me. I don't have many attractive women or men willing to be photographed around me and I'm required to have four different photos of at least two different models and two different locations. I'm going to have to work on that.

04-08-2010, 10:48 AM	#14
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	You can either pay a little for some models, or just find some friends. Even if your "models" aren't great, I think that once you get your profile out there, people will see your style and technique and still be willing to test with you.