The problem I see with your style is that customers may like the idea of something different initially, so they see your samples, like them, and sign on the dotted line.
Then they get their pictures back from you and, full of excitement, they start looking through them. They get through a dozen or so and start wishing that some of them were more of a traditional style. They get through a few more and start becoming unhappy with what you have produced. Then they show them to some family and friends and someone says "why are they all crooked?"and an 'Emperor's New Clothes' moment happens and they downright start hating the pictures.

By mixing traditional and 'drunken photographer' styles, you prevent boredom setting in and reduce the amount of heads being cut in half. You also get more chance of producing 'standout' shots and make yourselves more flexible. You said in an earlier post

... it is the case in a couple of these photos that they are cropped tight and/or tilted because of issues in the bg - getting an exit sign or a distracting architectural element out of the shot.

The customer is paying you to be prepared for those eventualities, not to make excuses, instead of cutting someone's head in half because there is an exit sign, you should be in a different position so that the sign isn't in the frame. You are doing the job with your wife, there should be no problem in getting the bases covered.
No offense meant, but your comment I quoted above comes across as sloppy unprofessionalism and stubborness. This one customer has the potential to do you a lot of harm because it doesn't take long for word to get around in cases like this. People will certainly remember you because of your 'different' style but that can be a double edged sword.

You didn't mention in your original post how busy you are, just that you've been doing it for two years. If you're fully booked during wedding season, then there's probably no reason to change apart from the possibility that there's always someone around the corner who can do what you do better than you. If you're not fully booked for that period, then perhaps you are putting pride before profit and it might be worth re-examining your style and strategy. You didn't say whether you had a website either, or what your price range is.

Personally, I'm not impressed with the examples you posted and I'm not surprised the bride cried. If they are really representative of your best work, I think your customer base might be rather limited.

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Last edited by Damn Brit; 04-23-2010 at 12:12 AM.

[Eigengrau]

If the bride originally liked the photos only to change her mind later, my first thought would be that one of the mothers got involved and didn't like your style. Mothers can be the bane of all wedding photogs.

You must be psychic - the one who originally contacted us was the bride's mother. Since the only feedback we had gotten from the bride was positive, we assumed all was good (We're working for the B&G, after all). However, based on the feedback from mom, we contacted the bride to ask if she still felt good about the work, and she then came back with her complaints.

So, I don't really know about the dynamics there, but it does seem like there's something more complicated since the feedback hasn't been consistent.


Also - there's been some good (mostly constructive) criticism on composition, and I thought I'd respond to some of it. First (to make sure there's no confusion and I don't take credit where it isn't due) the second batch of example shots I showed were not my photography, just some shots from the web to try to demonstrate aggressive cropping. You can see the originating websites on the click-through.

Second - the shots I uploaded as examples were mostly random selections, to demonstrate that the photography is not horribly 'shopped or badly exposed or all out-of-focus or blurry because of slow shutter speeds. I feel like that would've been a separate issue entirely, so I wanted to clarify what the objections were about. If I get a chance I'll see if I can upload some other examples to get some more feedback.

Third, I still think that cropping or frame tilt is an acceptable composition technique, although I hadn't realized that some people found it so distasteful. I'm considering lowering the frequency with which I resort to that, because while it is ok, I think a few of you were correct that it is probably a good idea to provide a wider variety of compositional styles.

In terms of business, so far we stay about as busy as we want to, and get frequent word-of-mouth referrals from happy customers.

Last, thanks for posting those black and white photos - truly brilliant, and a great example of what wedding photographers should strive for.

Anyways, always hoping to improve, and I feel like I've got a lot of new things to consider for the next wedding so keep the (constructive) feedback coming!

[opfor]

You must be psychic - the one who originally contacted us was the bride's mother.

Not really, but if you really feel that way you can always send money, and I don't do lottery numbers...:-)
Usually, if you are just dealing with the bride(most husbands will go with what she wants), things don't usually don't get out of hand.
Throw in a mother (or two), a few aunts, a few close female friends, maybe a granny (or two) and chaos can reign...
It's one of those things you have to keep an eye out for and shut down in a positive and polite manner as soon as it rears it's ugly head. Any sign of weakness on your part is likely to start a feeding frenzy...

[séamuis]

this may be a bit off base, and as someone who has never done (nor has any plans on ever doing) any wedding photography, I dont really have anything to add, I just wanted to know, when did excessive tilting and cropping become a staple of photojournalism? I have seen photos by war photographers taken level straight and properly composed, that came from the middle of an engagement. I dont know how such framing and composition became 'photojournalistic', but I am clueless about it.

[icywarm]

It's one of those things you have to keep an eye out for and shut down in a positive and polite manner as soon as it rears it's ugly head. Any sign of weakness on your part is likely to start a feeding frenzy...

For my wedding I hired the best photog SKP • PORTRAITURE in town. He was great, I have no idea how many frames he took, but he showed us enough that we would have wanted to print everyone, than we set to making a book with him and some prints.

We got no CD, nor prints that he did not approve.

There was one case were a head was not right and he did a quick transfer from another of the same frame and all was good.

He had rules, which worked really well:

1) He needed 3 hours, no less, hopefully more
2) at least 3 locations (we did four because of rain)
3) he WOULD NOT sell the originals
4) he printed all the pics, (except one, which we wanted for Thank-you's)
5) only the bride and groom sat in when looking at photos and making the book

He did an engagement shoot so we knew how he worked and he handed us a bill, he is not booked every weekend, he is booked everyday, so if you didn't like the above, tough... the only problem I had with him is he used ff nikon

Now my wife... at first she said no, we can have the ma and pop $500 special with 2000 CD's. (We booked one for the rest of the day 10 cd's filled with unedited photos, it was impossible!) and not spend $$$ on SKP, however, as my gift to her I got her the photog I knew she wanted.

SKP on the other hand gave us what we wanted, but still my wife was unhappy at times, but there was little he could have done. It was some of her poses or her thinking she wasn't hot enough in a photo... **sigh**

In the end all is great, we have a great product, but buyers remorse can be very strong and needs to be handled...

Not everyone likes every photo style... personally I think 99% of wedding photos I have seen lately are too dark, contrasted, saturated, jewel toned, over exposed... no one seems to take a proper photo, but if that is what the people want it is best you give it to them... and they will change their mind... so you need to know what they want, more than they do...

[Wheatfield]

Something that I learned very early on, the bride and/or groom is not the customer.
The bride and/or groom may hire me, and they may pay me, but the real customer is the bride's mother.
And the first time I meet her will probably be at the reception.

Anyway, if you care, here is a few pithy thoughts regarding wedding photography in general:

They have a pretty even chance of being divorced within a few years, so
the photography is about as disposable as a used car.
You may as well charge like a Rolls Royce, the pictures won't be around
long enough to prove they are a Chevette.

The brides mother is going to hate the pictures no matter what. She
already hates the ******* that her daughter chose to fall in love with,
and will transfer this loathing onto the pictures.
Don't worry about it, it's not a battle that can be won.
Don't fight it.
Take the opportunity to turn daughter against mother, instead.

If you have to, point out that this is the father of her grandchild.

Remember what the truly important pictures are, and get them.
Pictures of the bride and groom together are not necessarily the most
important in the long haul.

Generally, it is the family portraits. Make sure you get family
portraits of just the groom's family, and just the bride's family.
Weddings are about families.

Hedge your bets and go with blood, not law or religion.

[wjt]

Not everyone likes every photo style... personally I think 99% of wedding photos I have seen lately are too dark, contrasted, saturated, jewel toned, over exposed... no one seems to take a proper photo, but if that is what the people want it is best you give it to them... and they will change their mind... so you need to know what they want, more than they do...

Agreed.. Since taking an interest in photography i think the photos taken at my wedding were quite average. Especially considering the calibre of photos taken by amateurs and hobbyist just on this forum alone, although I can't complain... i had nothing to do with any of it and her folks paid for it all.

For the OP, It would be prudent to take a few traditional and posed shots as well as the style you posted, maybe you do. And I wouldn't be afraid of touching some of the photos, i agree with the masses on the first one needing some pp. But as long as you showed them examples of what they would be getting and they didn't ask for anything specific then they don't really have anything to complain about.

I bet you (not a whole lot) that the groom's mother is also not happy with the shots, and the groom is her only son. Oh God.

[Eigengrau]

I wouldn't be afraid of touching some of the photos, i agree with the masses on the first one needing some pp.

I'm planning on doing some more PP based on feedback here, but I thought of a question with that:

Could extensive PP backfire on you? If, for instance, you take out crows feet, bags, moles, whatever, at some point the edits are going to be fairly obvious to people who know the person. Do you think a customer might get offended that you thought they needed to be touched up?

Small things are going to be appreciated, obviously - getting rid of prominent zits or whatever (which we do). But some of the changes suggested might make a person look different than they really are - do you get approval first, or what?

[omega leader]

Looking back over some of the shots and the post-wedding communication, the strange thing is that the clients were initially very positive. Both the bride and groom said that they loved the shots, and so have their friends. So the mixed message is making things especially confusing.

Unfortunately, I think you ran into the dreaded parents of the bride/groom.

The offer of reposing some shots is classy though and if it turns out will make these guys willing to spread the good word about you.

[opfor]

Could extensive PP backfire on you? If, for instance, you take out crows feet, bags, moles, whatever, at some point the edits are going to be fairly obvious to people who know the person. Do you think a customer might get offended that you thought they needed to be touched up?

Any PP should be done with the idea of it not being noticeable. Reduce instead of eliminate, small gentle changes instead of big ones... If they don't notice the PP, then it is all down to you being a good photographer.
You will have to touch some things up, but you don't need to tell everyone about it. At the end of the day, most people aren't really going to understand or care how you did it, just that you did with out a lot of fuss.
Vanity is your friend. If the changes you make don't jump out of the picture and shout PP, then you can say it was all down to the make-up they were wearing or any wrinkles(or what ever it was) that faded when you did a simple color correction...
If they are using a professional for make-up, this also gives them a boost and they are more likely to put your name around as a "nice" photographer. Same goes for the cake, decorations, bridesmaids, etc. "It easier to make good photos of nice looking things". Someone is paying for it all, play nice and throw in a few nice pics to make them feel good about it.
"Modern digital cameras can be very forgiving if you know what you are doing and you know how to use them", this also works well to weed out the friends of the family who have bought a camera and "can to the job for free". (Obviously Uncle Fred doesn't know what he is doing because he can't make his camera take pics like this)
Stay away from discussions about PS or whatever software you use, you want them to think of you as a photog, not comparing you to cousin Mary's boyfriend who has a hacked copy of PS and can draw pictures with it. Credit your work to your photography skills, not your software manipulation skills.
Those have been my excuses/guidlines for the last few years and so far it has worked for me...

[Pentaxtic]

Something that I learned very early on, the bride and/or groom is not the customer.
The bride and/or groom may hire me, and they may pay me, but the real customer is the bride's mother.
And the first time I meet her will probably be at the reception.

Anyway, if you care, here is a few pithy thoughts regarding wedding photography in general:

They have a pretty even chance of being divorced within a few years, so
the photography is about as disposable as a used car.
You may as well charge like a Rolls Royce, the pictures won't be around
long enough to prove they are a Chevette.

The brides mother is going to hate the pictures no matter what. She
already hates the ******* that her daughter chose to fall in love with,
and will transfer this loathing onto the pictures.
Don't worry about it, it's not a battle that can be won.
Don't fight it.
Take the opportunity to turn daughter against mother, instead.

If you have to, point out that this is the father of her grandchild.

Remember what the truly important pictures are, and get them.
Pictures of the bride and groom together are not necessarily the most
important in the long haul.

Generally, it is the family portraits. Make sure you get family
portraits of just the groom's family, and just the bride's family.
Weddings are about families.

Hedge your bets and go with blood, not law or religion.

This is really good advice. 2 Thumbs up!

[bimjo]

Hehe, this thread reminds me once again why there isn't enough money in the world to get me to shoot a wedding for hire. Shooting one for fun is great. If you mess the whole thing up nothing is lost but your time.