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05-06-2013, 10:22 AM   #91
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Canadians get a 2 year warranty from the same factory that give US customers only 1 year.

05-06-2013, 10:39 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Which, minus the US and Canada are comprised of pretty much all 3rd world countries with miniscule buying power. Which means the US has a huge chunk of that pie. So the stats you quote don't reflect the US's share of the DSLR market. What we need to see is how many are shipped to the US, China, Japan, Singapore, India, Germany, England, etc etc.

I love how people try to downplay the US market, like it isnt important. I don't understand the motivation. Pentax is scraping the bottom of the barrel, so they should continue to ignore an important market?
I was discussing in terms of regions, not countries - I have a feeling high-level strategies are rather made this way.
Talking about downplaying, Brazil's economy is the 6th or 7th largest - they would not be happy to be called a "3rd world country with miniscule buying power"

FTR I never claimed the US market is not important, or that it should be ignored; but it's not the most important either, nor the largest if we are thinking regions. It's also - unless I'm just influenced by the constant negativity - a difficult market, with significant distribution and marketing issues. Which means Pentax won't spend tons of money to prioritize "fixing" your market at the expense of everything else; expect a longer term strategy, one that will not require significant external funds.

And I agree that a long term strategy must include fixing "weaknesses". But they can only launch few cameras and lenses each year, and so far the new DSLR products were delayed... be patient.
05-06-2013, 12:17 PM   #93
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Has anyone also noticed that just a few short months ago there were 100+ existing marketed PK lenses. It is now down to about 90.

Really hoping it does not drop down to 80.

...And another reason that Pentax fails. Bringing out the wrong lenses to the wrong market. When (outside of the one single Pentax medium format) every single Pentax body does for well under 2k, let's bring out an ultra rare telephoto that sells how many copies?? Pentax must really wrongly believe that's it's difficult to make good glass that will also be popular. And that's it must also be difficult to release many lenses which are not rebranded.
05-06-2013, 01:20 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
Has anyone also noticed that just a few short months ago there were 100+ existing marketed PK lenses. It is now down to about 90.

Really hoping it does not drop down to 80.

...And another reason that Pentax fails. Bringing out the wrong lenses to the wrong market. When (outside of the one single Pentax medium format) every single Pentax body does for well under 2k, let's bring out an ultra rare telephoto that sells how many copies?? Pentax must really wrongly believe that's it's difficult to make good glass that will also be popular. And that's it must also be difficult to release many lenses which are not rebranded.
Fewer lens models would not in itself be bad. There is a lot of overlap in the 35-43 range (6 lenses if I'm remembering correctly). It needs to be done carefully, though, to hit the right price points.

05-06-2013, 01:39 PM - 1 Like   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
Has anyone also noticed that just a few short months ago there were 100+ existing marketed PK lenses. It is now down to about 90.

Really hoping it does not drop down to 80.

...And another reason that Pentax fails. Bringing out the wrong lenses to the wrong market. When (outside of the one single Pentax medium format) every single Pentax body does for well under 2k, let's bring out an ultra rare telephoto that sells how many copies?? Pentax must really wrongly believe that's it's difficult to make good glass that will also be popular. And that's it must also be difficult to release many lenses which are not rebranded.
The Non-Pentax Tamron 18-270 is on sale for $358 shipped via rebate and other kickbacks on BuyDig right now. The lowest I could find the Pentax rebranded 18-270 (without an OS motor BTW) is $725ish. So, Pentax thinks its great for us to pay nearly exactly double to have the green stripe and "PENTAX" on the lens (and we get no motor). Just another example of their great new products lately. Although the new Q 06 zoom is killer.
05-06-2013, 02:41 PM   #96
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It stands to reason that a new owner is going to want to rationalize the company they have bought after the products that were in development at the time of purchase have run their course. The first stage of doing that would be by slowing down stock movement via increased prices until you have new lines ready to go. This would allow slowing production to a crawl, or even stopping it, on particular items. None of us can actually know for sure what is going on here (and I'm sure a number of people have actually mentioned the real reason without actually knowing for certain) but it does get tiresome being advised to wait a few years. The older I get the more precious my time becomes and there's no time like the present for actually getting on with life - stuff the waiting game. I never waited beyond last year anyway but still have a few Pentax items I enjoy using every day.

PS: Perhaps a key to what is going on would be by checking stock availability and just how many products are on back-order?
05-06-2013, 03:52 PM - 1 Like   #97
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I'm not sure the retailers would stand for a company telling them to raise their prices to keep items they have bought and paid for on the shelf so it looks like there is more inventory available than there actually is? Maybe that's the case, but it sure doesn't seem to be a good way to build a solid relationship with your distributors (or customers as we have been told they actually are)

It'd be like saying, "we know we sold you this stuff, but now you can't sell it because if you try to, we'll not sell you any more stuff in the future". It'd be corporate blackmail. Well, in a way, what they are doing to their distributors (or customers) IS corporate blackmail. And you have to wonder how Jimbo's customers (the distributors) are taking it right about now. I run a business, and I know first hand, unless you run a grocery store, you can't eat inventory, and you can't pay expenses with it either if it doesn't sell.

Anyway, Monochrome, I'm sorry you find my tone abrasive, but I have to wonder, what exactly is your agenda? Are you just showing off, trying to let us know how much you know about business? Do you have a million bucks in Pentax or Richo stock? (and if so, what are you doing here? LOL ) I stated my business with about 6 grand in savings and 8 grand in credit cards. If I ran my shop the way Jimbo is running his, I would be working for Walmart right now because there is no way I would have succeeded. Customers care about what you can do for them right now, and that you can do it for them better, faster, and at at least a competitive price. If you can do that, they'll stick with you. That's how you grow a business. You don't need an MBA from Wharton to know that. Zig Ziglar said it best when he said, "You can get everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." But I guess when you're the 248th or whatever largest business in the world, you can do pretty much what you want. You can take a company, dismantle it, and then rebuild it the way you think it should have been in the first place. Which is what they are doing right now, and that's their right. Their money, their company. Nothing, no one, no law no rule, absolutely nothing, however, says anyone has to like it or even go along with it. I hope they do build Pentax into Leica Lite in a few years as someone said. Pentax is a great brand and deserves a lot better than Hoya did for it. Maybe Richo has the answer. If they do, it might be worth looking at again in the future. But blind loyalty is just that. Blind. No matter how much Capt Smith loved the Titanic, if he could have got off, I'm betting he would have.
05-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #98
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No, nope, no, Wharton, no and no. No dog in the hunt. 100% contract for services rendered - at zero every morning, but frankly, I've been raising the price for what I do for two years. Thursday I declined to accept a new relationship with a prospect that wanted me to do things differently than my business is modeled, for a price I'm not willing to accept.

They were outraged when I politely declined and offered a referral, stating I have an obligation to accept their offered contract (which I don't - I can refuse to do business with anyone for any reason).

I have no agenda here other than to attempt to put some intermediate term perspective on these daily and weekly events. I presume PRAC is a rational actor and not just making crazy stupid ignorant marketing mistakes.

I believe PRAC is trying to give a targeted group of camera buyers - those that Pentax thinks are actually available, since they cannot at this time go head-to-head with Canon and Nikon - what Pentax believes they want. In the end that group may or may not include you and me.

PRAC apparently believes what they want costs money. Ricoh apparently is unwilling to ship capital to PRAC, nor is Ricoh apparently willing to accept continuing losses from PRAC, so PRAC needs to generate cash flow to reinvest in the enterprise.

Those who can wait, will. Those who can't, won't. Way of the world.

05-20-2013, 04:27 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I believe PRAC is trying to give a targeted group of camera buyers - those that Pentax thinks are actually available, since they cannot at this time go head-to-head with Canon and Nikon - what Pentax believes they want. In the end that group may or may not include you and me ...
.
Who at PRAC actually knows what PRIC actually wants to do and what it actually plans to deliver? A single product X can be a great potential to get a Y number of people, but if the entire new ecosystem EX of that product X is unknown to John who wants to sell (current, old) Pentax gear to a local dealer, or to local customers, how on Earth his plan — any plan! — may work if absolute essentials (like the overall appeal of the future products and the ecosystem) are still a mystery?

Isn't that perhaps the real reason that marketing done by PRAC, or any other Pentax subsidiary, still sucks — no matter how hard they do? Because those poor guys have no idea what they'll gonna say. They are in much worse position than the customers are — we at least can rant and vent out for a while spending our salary on a competitor's product. But those guys, if they want to vent out, they must look for a new way to get a salary.

I think we are really unfair. Ricoh, whether we like it or not, is screwing up everyone here. Maybe they have some good intentions, but at least under Hoya Pentax started to roll out projects and products immediately, and that bread still feeds us all!

Last edited by Uluru; 05-20-2013 at 04:50 AM.
05-21-2013, 06:19 PM   #100
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As having just moved over to Pentax 6 months ago,it was 99% trust of what is written online(especially here) about their gear..no where could I even see or try a K5II ,let alone any lenses,Pentax or 3rd party!! would have to drive 7 hours to Copenhagen and hope maybe someone had one in stock.. Ok I have a 2 week return on all gear I buy,but not enough time really to 'know' a brand. And now when looking for lenses,have to trust the net as well. None of the shops here want to touch Pentax DSLR or Q...let alone any glass...so Pentax must rethink their marketing approach here in Denmark I think.Its the best value for $$ brand, but will it survive here I wonder..
05-22-2013, 06:54 AM   #101
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Dante

Well if we get to the 7th circle,at least we can get some good shots,as the K5 is great for those low light scenes,amidst in the infernos of FF envy......just might be hard to upload to FB from there
05-22-2013, 07:25 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Canadians get a 2 year warranty from the same factory that give US customers only 1 year.
That's to ameliorate the currency difference. Fuji does the same thing.
05-22-2013, 07:38 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Jim Malcolm has to do something. Every choice he has is negative for someone or something. I beleive he has chosen to increase the margin between what he pays PRI (Pentax Japan) for lenses and what he sells them to Dealers for so that he has cash flow to use to rebuild the brand infrastructure in the US. Any loose advertised pricing agreement constitutes a long-term desire to reposition the brand away from a discount brand towards a premium brand. Though I don't like paying for it, I understand the strategy.
But many won't pay for it. They'll ignore the brand and put money into a brand offering better value. This will reduce net revenues, not increase them.

I also bet this was done by the Japanese headmasters, not by their North American subsidiary. There is intense frustration in Japanese companies with the Amazon-driven, low price, consumer discount philosophy market structure in the US, spreading elsewhere (Latin America, UK). They are desperately trying to reel it in to a more "traditional" model, but largely failing.

Even with Ricoh at the helm, Pentax appears to be flailing around for a a strategy. Ricoh made its name in copiers because it recruited a motivated sales force and provided end-to-end servicing, and they did so at a time when other players (Canon especially) seemed to sit back on their established base and assumed that customers would stay loyal to the brand regardless of price differential.

Cameras are now NOT sold at brick and mortar stores in volumes enough to sustain that kind of Just look at the Ricoh GR. How many will buy this on spec alone? I bet a fair majority because Ricoh cameras have almost no store presence.

Pentax is simply NOT a premium brand. Without FF it has no position as such as APS-C is now secularly a mid-range to low-end photographic product.

You likely won't pay for it, and no one else will. Still flailing.
05-22-2013, 11:02 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
There is intense frustration in Japanese companies with the Amazon-driven, low price, consumer discount philosophy market structure in the US, spreading elsewhere (Latin America, UK). They are desperately trying to reel it in to a more "traditional" model, but largely failing.
PRAC is not a premium Customer Servicer, either, judging by the quality of the web presence, the random sequence of website updates, the general experience with pentax and the lack of intetntional, clear communication. While I try to be an optimist because I really don't want to think Pentax is doomed, deep in my heart of hearts I see zero win-win choices.
05-22-2013, 10:51 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
..
I also bet this was done by the Japanese headmasters, not by their North American subsidiary. There is intense frustration in Japanese companies with the Amazon-driven, low price, consumer discount philosophy market structure in the US, spreading elsewhere (Latin America, UK). They are desperately trying to reel it in to a more "traditional" model, but largely failing.
Because US legislation is stupid enough to allow such thing to demolish its economy in the long run. After the .com Wild West phase, now there must be some kind of price parity between online and B&M stores set in place and enforced by law.
Or otherwise, you'll order you bread online in a few years, and feed on thin air.

Rules must change because that what we have now is the race to the bottom, utterly stupid, irrational and anti-economic.

See just one consequence of that race to the bottom: companies are left with no margin much needed for shifting into more environmentally sustainable economy modes of operation. If law reinforces that side of the equation, and allows total chaos on the other side, there's no economy, no future. Companies must start tightening belts and lay off people to get the money. And that's what you have now.

Now, let's think again: does it make sense to order a camera for cheapest possible price from some cutthroat idiot online? Your partner, dad, brother, etc. will lose their job tomorrow because of that, and your kids will have bleak environmental future.

Japanese companies' business model is not 'traditional', or 'oldfashioned' — it is sustainable. But what we want from them is not sustainable. It's ludicrous. For example, one reason I refuse buying Korean companies tech products (Samsung et al) is because their tech companies build their economy on: 1) clear theft of the IP, for which one needs good money to invest otherwise, and 2) cutting the margins needed for faster environmentally more sustainable practices and models. I'd gladly erase some Chinese made products from the list because of the both, but today absolutely everything is made in China. Then at least I try to buy from B&M shops, at a full asking price. I pay more, but I keep using it longer.

But US legislation is totally unaware of that economic fact because from the 1980s, the US has steadily demolished its own industry, from which it could learn more about sustainability, and didn't catch up with the rest of the world in the last 30 years either. Britain you mentioned above did the same, totally demolished its industry prospects and much needed learning. The cause? Reagan / Tatcher duo from 1980s brought you this. It's still not too late to fix it — if there's will.[/QUOTE]

Last edited by Uluru; 05-22-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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