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12-10-2009, 03:33 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But I couldn't refrain from highlighting a wording we haven't heard from Pentax for years
Seems they let the FF camera cat out of the bag.

Doesn't make sense to make people speculate about a future FF camera -- possibly skipping the next APS-C offerings -- and not follow up with an FF camera. I'm pretty sure that's why the DA* 55 wasn't officially announced as an FF lens, although in practice it covers the FF image circle.

That's what logic would dictate, anyway. But then a 100mm Macro WR with a bathtub for drops rather than a focusing window doesn't seem to be logical at all. The lens looks fantastic but that feature seems to compromise the WR and in terms of the lens line up, I don't think the world was screaming for this one.

12-10-2009, 03:47 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Seems they let the FF camera cat out of the bag.

Doesn't make sense to make people speculate about a future FF camera -- possibly skipping the next APS-C offerings -- and not follow up with an FF camera. I'm pretty sure that's why the DA* 55 wasn't officially announced as an FF lens, although in practice it covers the FF image circle..
More "Viral Marketing" like the releases of the blurry K-7 images. I think they are setting the table for a blockbuster release some time in the spring. Taking down the Lens Roadmap (hiding direction from competition, setting up FF) and changing course on the K-7 (technology sharing with 645D for cost reduction) were indications of the new direction at Hoya Pentax. We say they don't make good business decisions; we say the aren't marketing, but they in fact ARE making good business decisions, and they are marketing with the resources they currently have available - just not in the fashion we have grown accustomed to.

Also see Pentax banner ads on DPReview and photo.net, as well as some print full page ads in certain markets.

Starting small. If revenue increases they will expand the marketing effort, generating more revenue, generating more amrketing budget . . .

Good long-term planning from my view.
12-10-2009, 06:21 PM   #18
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If that is the real price, I'll be selling by Tamron 90/2.8 macro! Any thoughts on this?
I also assume that this new D FA would be suitable for FF, am I wrong? Am reading, from the specs
:• An image circle to accommodate 35mm film-format camera image size.

JP

Last edited by jpzk; 12-10-2009 at 07:21 PM. Reason: added question
12-10-2009, 08:37 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
More "Viral Marketing" like the releases of the blurry K-7 images. I think they are setting the table for a blockbuster release some time in the spring. Taking down the Lens Roadmap (hiding direction from competition, setting up FF) and changing course on the K-7 (technology sharing with 645D for cost reduction) were indications of the new direction at Hoya Pentax. We say they don't make good business decisions; we say the aren't marketing, but they in fact ARE making good business decisions, and they are marketing with the resources they currently have available - just not in the fashion we have grown accustomed to.

Also see Pentax banner ads on DPReview and photo.net, as well as some print full page ads in certain markets.

Starting small. If revenue increases they will expand the marketing effort, generating more revenue, generating more amrketing budget . . .

Good long-term planning from my view.
I just hope that Pentax make some good business decisions or take steps on solving the dreaded SDM zoom lens problem as well. discontinue the damn lenses and replace them with efficient ones and extend their warranty to a minimum of 5 years ( 10 years would be much preferred).

12-10-2009, 09:44 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I just hope that Pentax make some good business decisions or take steps on solving the dreaded SDM zoom lens problem as well. discontinue the damn lenses and replace them with efficient ones and extend their warranty to a minimum of 5 years ( 10 years would be much preferred).
Uhmmm, I thought my entire post was intended to reflect that they ARE making good business decisions - they're depolying a long-term, step-by-step investment and business strategy. The downside to a long-term, compund constant improvement strategy when you start really small is that at first you are compounding a really small number.

But the last double is a really BIG number (think about doubling your money every 7 years - that last double is huge - Ben Franklin analogy).

.Just remember, engineering costs money. Warranties cost money. Quality costs money.

As soon as these SDM micro-motors are improved to ring motors and the lens prices go up to reflect the costs there will be an outcry from the "Pentax used to be the value for dollar brand" crowd.

It's as if we won't LET them win.
12-10-2009, 10:12 PM   #21
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QuoteQuote:
I'm pretty sure that's why the DA* 55 wasn't officially announced as an FF lens, although in practice it covers the FF image circle
I put my DA*55 on a 35mm film camera and it takes some pretty decent pictures. No vignette, etc. If Pentax goes full frame, I'll probably be using the DA*55 on it as my new "normal".

Awesome.
12-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Uhmmm, I thought my entire post was intended to reflect that they ARE making good business decisions - they're depolying a long-term, step-by-step investment and business strategy. The downside to a long-term, compund constant improvement strategy when you start really small is that at first you are compounding a really small number.

But the last double is a really BIG number (think about doubling your money every 7 years - that last double is huge - Ben Franklin analogy).

.Just remember, engineering costs money. Warranties cost money. Quality costs money.

As soon as these SDM micro-motors are improved to ring motors and the lens prices go up to reflect the costs there will be an outcry from the "Pentax used to be the value for dollar brand" crowd.

It's as if we won't LET them win.
I understand the concept of business marketing. however, letting them win is not an excuse to sell a failing premium grade lens selling for over a thousand bucks (that's a lot of moolah), so the concept of value for the money does not even fit in since you pay big bucks for such a lens. it is rather a travesty to the concept of it if we are going to think about it. it is neither economical nor ethical in a business sense. with the exception of weather-sealing, the premium grade Sigmas are much more economical and practically sound over the SDM Pentax lenses, with the added security of 10 year warranty. one must wonder if Pentax/Hoya is a bigger lens company than Sigma. it is rather a question of fairness or real value for the money. one question that Pentax or SDM owners should ponder upon is, "is a non-functioning SDM lens worth a 1,000 bucks?"

personally, if I were to spend a thousand bucks to choose between a Pentax DA* SDM zoom lens and a premium grade Sigma zoom lens, I wouldn't hesitate to pick the Sigma and have enough cash left to buy an FA77 along with it. 2 excellent lenses over the price of 1 endangered lens.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 12-10-2009 at 10:46 PM.
12-10-2009, 10:38 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I understand the concept of business marketing. however, letting them win is not an excuse to sell a failing premium grade lens selling for over a thousand bucks (that's a lot of moolah), so the concept of value for the money does not even fit in since you pay big bucks for such a lens. it is rather a travesty to the concept of it if we are going to think about it. it is neither economical nor ethical in a business sense. with the exception of weather-sealing, the premium grade Sigmas are much more economical and practically sound over the SDM Pentax lenses, with the added security of 10 year warranty. one must wonder if Pentax/Hoya is a bigger lens company than Sigma. it is rather a question of fairness or real value for the money. one question that Pentax or SDM owners should ponder upon is, "is a non-functioning SDM lens worth a 1,000 bucks?"

personally, if I were to spend a thousand bucks to choose between a Pentax DA* SDM zoom lens and a premium grade Sigma zoom lens, I wouldn't hesitate to pick the Sigma.
Do you understand controlled capital allocation where growing a business? Another thread here suggests an email campaign to "persuade Pentax to give us full-maunal aperture video mode." Businesses don't give people anything. They invest in products that they think people will buy at a price that makes a profit for the company. SO I ask you -

1. Which failing Pentax premium grade lens is selling for over a thousand bucks?
2. What does that have to do with the D FA 100/2.8 Macro - there's no SDM?
3. Will buyers pay for improved ring motors and a longer warranty, plus Pentax's superior design, IQ, coatings and build versus a Sigma lens, or will buyers complain about the price increase? (I suspect the latter).


Last edited by monochrome; 12-10-2009 at 10:45 PM.
12-10-2009, 11:08 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Do you understand controlled capital allocation where growing a business? Another thread here suggests an email campaign to "persuade Pentax to give us full-maunal aperture video mode." Businesses don't give people anything. They invest in products that they think people will buy at a price that makes a profit for the company. SO I ask you -

1. Which failing Pentax premium grade lens is selling for over a thousand bucks?
2. What does that have to do with the D FA 100/2.8 Macro - there's no SDM?
3. Will buyers pay for improved ring motors and a longer warranty, plus Pentax's superior design, IQ, coatings and build versus a Sigma lens, or will buyers complain about the price increase? (I suspect the latter).

1.> the Pentax 16-50mm. you might want to check that out at B&H. also remind you that we pay a much higher premium here in Canada. here it's both the 16-50 and the 50-135 worth over a thousand. I also went thru 5 failed purchase transactions here locally concerning the DA* zooms which were said to be in excellent condition but displayed a non-functioning motor and impending AF motor failure otherwise. one with severe BF issue. recurring coincidence? or am I just bad luck or what?

2.> the point being made is if Pentax is making a move on developing new lenses, why not solve the prevailing problems in their existing SDM lenses "as well". that is my point. of course Pentax would spend money on engineering and design, so what's the difference between making a new lens and improving an old lens? the answer is NONE. they spend a lot of money just the same.

3.> they already paid a thousand bucks worth of crap, so there's no question about it. a failing motor is not a superior design. IQ is and can be rivaled by the 3rd party premium grade lenses. and you know what and how the Premium Sigmas build look like, I have to admit that they look better than their Pentax counterpart in some way. although I love and prefer Pentax lenses, I do admit that a few 3rd party lenses can make their own noise as well. the only thing that make Pentax unique is it's colors, other than that it's all leveled. as comparison, doing the math, you pay 600 bucks just for the weather-sealing and impending failing motor for the Pentax. though I would likely to debate if the weather-sealing alone is even worth over 150 bucks since the new WR kit lens costs only at around 200 bucks.

again, as I said, I just hope that Pentax solve some of this issues before they take the next step forward. trying to bypass this isn't going to help Pentax overall. if rumors are true that they are going to discontinue the 16-45, it would be a mistake since the 16-50 at it's current state, IMO is worth getting the canner than the 16-45.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 12-12-2009 at 05:25 PM.
12-11-2009, 06:54 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by dugrant153 Quote
I put my DA*55 on a 35mm film camera and it takes some pretty decent pictures
Could you please share some film camera test shots (brick wall or alike) in the thread
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-lens-...ts-thread.html ?
The DA*55 is one of a few missing entries. I couldn't yet find test shots allowing to judge corner sharpness.
12-15-2009, 11:45 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
you are aware that the D-FA are FF optics, right?
Yeah, but most of the best Pentax film bodies, even the MZ-S, need that aperture ring. He does have a point.

(Sorry, that was redundant. I realize now I skipped ahead when my browser hadn't loaded the first page fully. )

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 12-15-2009 at 11:53 AM.
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM   #27
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"Most of the best Pentax SLR needs aperture ring"?
Not if you mean "most of the best Pentax AF SLR" because most of Pentax best AF SLR's can control aperture from the body. There are three exceptions:
The MZ-S, MZ-3 and MZ-5/5N.

The MZ-6/MZ-L/ZX-6 can control aperture from the body, so can also the rest of the MZ-serie (except for the ones mentioned above). Pentax whole Z-serie controls aperture from the body, including the highly specified Z-1/Z-1p, Z-5, Z-50 and Z-20.

So if we say "most" meaning "most of" or "many", then it is many more Pentax AF SLR's that controls aperture from the body than those few that doesn't.

And then we have a few that can't use aperture ring on the lenses anyway - like the film *ist, the MZ-50, 30 and MZ-60.
12-15-2009, 01:37 PM   #28
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My main concern regarding 100/2.8 macro is its lack of luster in image rendering. Colour from the lens is great as well as decent contrast, the popping quality seems to be lacking to a degree. The bokeh is bordering on harsh side and the only improvement seems to be on the weather resistant bandwagon...
12-15-2009, 03:12 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
"Most of the best Pentax SLR needs aperture ring"?
Not if you mean "most of the best Pentax AF SLR" because most of Pentax best AF SLR's can control aperture from the body. There are three exceptions:
The MZ-S, MZ-3 and MZ-5/5N.

The MZ-6/MZ-L/ZX-6 can control aperture from the body, so can also the rest of the MZ-serie (except for the ones mentioned above). Pentax whole Z-serie controls aperture from the body, including the highly specified Z-1/Z-1p, Z-5, Z-50 and Z-20.

So if we say "most" meaning "most of" or "many", then it is many more Pentax AF SLR's that controls aperture from the body than those few that doesn't.

And then we have a few that can't use aperture ring on the lenses anyway - like the film *ist, the MZ-50, 30 and MZ-60.
I said, 'most of the best Pentax SLRs.' All of them. Among the AF ones, your 'exceptions' are kind of top of the list. Few these days are looking to put a nine hundred dollar lens on a PZ-50 to shoot *film.* That's why I want a Z-1P. (Cause if I had nine bills to drop on a macro lens, I'd darn well want to be shooting an MZ-S or an LX with it, if film were the only reason to make it full-frame) Also why I suspect there may be another agenda at work.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 12-15-2009 at 03:19 PM.
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