Nature Ok, So What's Wrong With It

JeffJS · 08-08-2010, 11:29 PM

Personally, I like it and think it's a good photo. Tell me why it Is Not. Be specific but constructive.

annemarie · 08-08-2010, 11:49 PM

I don`t know why but the flower looks dirty...

I`m sure someone can tell you why this happend.

Photoshopped it a bit.

imtheguy · 08-08-2010, 11:53 PM

I also played with a sample and agree that the color cast looked more dirty than warm so my changes included removing most of the color cast, cropping out some of the bottom and right side especially eliminating the dead and partial flowers with cloning so that only the live daisies and center piece remained bright against the dark background.

edit - I didnt go as bright as annemarie's sample though as it seems to lose a little detail if stark white.

Was this a sunset lighting shot?

**Ash** · 08-09-2010, 12:07 AM

Yep, as mentioned - off WB and exposure, needing some PP treatment.
Lighting - harsh and unfortunately directioned unflatteringly.
Composition - central with excessive redundant space either side and thus not so inviting
DoF - good but perhaps too deep, making the background matter too easily discernible
Perspective - OK but not special; too much clutter in the background

Dave Wiedemer · 08-09-2010, 05:12 AM

When posting or displaying a photo please don't ask, "what's wrong with it?" If the shot is worth shooting and you like it, it has some good and shows your creativness.

My work in the past with film and the cost of prints turned my focus to filling the frame and making it happen.

Today with the digital and image altering programs you have a lot more latitude. There is nothing wrong with using Photoshop or other programs to enhance the image. As a matter of fact I feel cheated if I don't employ a little something extra in my work.

Enough rambling, keep shooting and display your best....

Dave

JeffJS · 08-09-2010, 08:07 AM

Annemarie, Thank you for your input. Your version is basically the way this photo (jpg) started out but I dialed down the exposure some to get rid of some of the blown out areas. I like maximum detail in flower photos.

Lee, This photo was taken at close to 9pm so yes, quite late. I had used a flash to try and balance things out a bit but with that type of sunlight, I guess it didn't work real well (the photo is a crop btw, not a closeup or macro).

Ash, Lighting: Can't do much about the direction of the sun other than take a picture at a different time of the day. I did try and use a fill flash to even it out but apparently that failed. DOF: There is a reason I prefer to use full manual for a photo like this so I can control both exposure and DOF. 1/250s at f9 did leave a lot of stuff in the background.

Dave, Really what I am asking is what would (if anything) make this photo gallery worthy. That is, what could I have done to keep it from being relegated to the Macro (which it isn't) gallery instead of the Premier gallery where I submitted it. I agree, I take photos for myself, but when I show them online, I want to know what will make somebody stop and look. The 'staff' doesn't give any feedback as to why they reject so I'm asking here.

So, with that said, and all of your comments in mind....

Better? Worse?

mattdm · 08-09-2010, 08:56 AM

I think the composition in the last crop has lost something. It's a better crop for the main subject, but the context of the daisies is gone. The two remaining ones then gain extra weight, making them jump out at me in a way I don't feel like is constructive for the image.

You ask: "I want to know what will make somebody stop and look." What is the image about? There doesn't have to be an obvious answer -- in fact, it's often stronger when there's not -- but the image should invite the question.

And if the answer is "here's a flower with an interesting texture", well, there's a lot of those, and a lot of pictures of them.

JeffJS · 08-09-2010, 10:35 AM

Ok, I know I'm probably trying some people's patience here but I'm really trying to learn something.

Yes, to me, it's a flower with some interesting texture. There really is no question in the photo other than perhaps wtf was he thinking? What he (I) was thinking, here are some nice flowers, let me try my newish 43mm Limited lens on something other than the dog.

So to take your suggestions to mind (Matt),

Or maybe I'm just trying to turn a mediocre photo into a good one?

Original unprocessed, uncropped..

Still just trying to get the best results I can..

I do appreciate everyone's input. The more I'm looking at this the more I'm realizing it will never be gallery-worthy.

How about a nice violet one instead...

[IMGtall]http://www.rolleiman.com/Photos/IMGP3533m43.jpg[/IMGtall]

cyy47 · 08-09-2010, 02:29 PM

The background is kind of distracting. Instead of shooting down, I would at least get to the level of the flower, or even shooting up with an uncluttered sky as background. You can also place something to block light behind the flower and the background would turn uniformly black.
Also with flash, I would try to light from the side with more directional light towards the flower to eliminate light spill. A easy homemade cereal box gobo would do.

Rupert · 08-09-2010, 04:43 PM

Jeff, I'm going to withhold my opinions here for the biggest part.....others have done a good job of critique on these. My main problem is that I hate Gladiolas of most all types or colors, even dirty looking white ones

I do have my reasons, but I won't detail them here.......
However, if you had a handsome Squirrel in the photo, I'm sure I would find some way to praise it....for sure if he was eating it!

Best Regards!

JeffJS · 08-09-2010, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by cyy47

The background is kind of distracting. Instead of shooting down, I would at least get to the level of the flower, or even shooting up with an uncluttered sky as background. You can also place something to block light behind the flower and the background would turn uniformly black.
Also with flash, I would try to light from the side with more directional light towards the flower to eliminate light spill. A easy homemade cereal box bogo would do.

Cereal box bogo? What is it (I know what a cereal box is

)? Getting the sky in either of those shots is out of the question. There just isn't an angle to do it from in these cases. A lower shooting angle is doable however, and 6 months hence when they bloom again, I'll give it a shot. I do agree however that looking up rather than down provides a more dramatic looking angle..

Originally posted by Rupert

Jeff, I'm going to withhold my opinions here for the biggest part.....others have done a good job of critique on these. My main problem is that I hate Gladiolas of most all types or colors, even dirty looking white ones

I do have my reasons, but I won't detail them here.......
However, if you had a handsome Squirrel in the photo, I'm sure I would find some way to praise it....for sure if he was eating it!

Best Regards!

Rupert, Meet Rocky. He is a Detroit dweller who spends his mornings at my lawyer's house getting fat on whatever treats have been left for him.

So not only is my flower shot a less than great one but I've misidentified the plant..

Rupert · 08-09-2010, 06:25 PM

Well, you made up for it with that handsome Squirrel!

Best Regards

kmwsbabe · 08-09-2010, 10:15 PM

Composition wise, I like where you were headed with the roses. I like the foreground interest. There's something a bit distracting above the flowers, though. It looks like some cloning or smudging gone awry.

You asked what makes a photo good enough to make the viewer pause and admire. A white daisy in a sea of lavender. A static face in an undulating crowd. And so much more. It's the difference between a Hallmark photo, destined for the trash bin, and a priceless Monet. It's a respect for lighting and a gift for composition that draws the viewer in.

It is great that you are posting for feedback. So much great advice here. Listen to it. And keep clicking!

JeffJS · 08-09-2010, 10:52 PM

kmwsbabe,

The distraction is likely an out of focus branch moving around in the wind that probably kicked up 3 seconds before shutter time. Those rose bushes in that location are 6-9 feet tall. I've actually pulled 20 foot growths out of the tree on the other side of the yard.

The photo was posted to show impact (as I see it) of flowers against the sky. I do appreciate your input on Any photo I post. Feel free to speak right up. Even if people hate my pictures, if they are talking about them, then they've served a purpose

mattdm · 08-10-2010, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Ok, I know I'm probably trying some people's patience here but I'm really trying to learn something.

Yes, to me, it's a flower with some interesting texture. There really is no question in the photo other than perhaps wtf was he thinking? What he (I) was thinking, here are some nice flowers, let me try my newish 43mm Limited lens on something other than the dog.

Keep in mind that you're talking to someone who primarily uses his camera to take pictures of how cute his own kids are. There's no shame in that, or in pictures of pretty flowers or cute pets.

But you ask the question of how to make a photograph that really stands out, and I think in order to do that, you need something which goes beyond the surface-level of a snapshot. This can certainly be done with apparently-mundane subjects, but I think those work best when either 1) there is something particularly unique about the particular subject or its presentation, or 2) the image is part of a body of work exploring that subject in a larger context.

Originally posted by JeffJS

So to take your suggestions to mind (Matt),

In my opinion that's the strongest I've seen in this thread. There's kind of a dialog between the dotted, soft background daisies and the large textured foreground flower, which is nice.

08-08-2010, 11:29 PM	#1
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Ok, So What's Wrong With It Lens: FA43 Camera: K10d Photo Location: Exif in tact Personally, I like it and think it's a good photo. Tell me why it Is Not. Be specific but constructive.

08-08-2010, 11:49 PM	#2
annemarie New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 18	I don`t know why but the flower looks dirty... I`m sure someone can tell you why this happend. Photoshopped it a bit. Attached Images

08-09-2010, 10:35 AM	#8
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484 Original Poster	Ok, I know I'm probably trying some people's patience here but I'm really trying to learn something. Yes, to me, it's a flower with some interesting texture. There really is no question in the photo other than perhaps wtf was he thinking? What he (I) was thinking, here are some nice flowers, let me try my newish 43mm Limited lens on something other than the dog. So to take your suggestions to mind (Matt), Or maybe I'm just trying to turn a mediocre photo into a good one? Original unprocessed, uncropped.. Still just trying to get the best results I can.. I do appreciate everyone's input. The more I'm looking at this the more I'm realizing it will never be gallery-worthy. How about a nice violet one instead... [IMGtall]http://www.rolleiman.com/Photos/IMGP3533m43.jpg[/IMGtall] Last edited by JeffJS; 08-09-2010 at 10:42 AM.

08-09-2010, 02:29 PM	#9
cyy47 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 157	The background is kind of distracting. Instead of shooting down, I would at least get to the level of the flower, or even shooting up with an uncluttered sky as background. You can also place something to block light behind the flower and the background would turn uniformly black. Also with flash, I would try to light from the side with more directional light towards the flower to eliminate light spill. A easy homemade cereal box gobo would do. Last edited by cyy47; 08-10-2010 at 02:30 PM.

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08-08-2010, 11:53 PM	#3
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	I also played with a sample and agree that the color cast looked more dirty than warm so my changes included removing most of the color cast, cropping out some of the bottom and right side especially eliminating the dead and partial flowers with cloning so that only the live daisies and center piece remained bright against the dark background. edit - I didnt go as bright as annemarie's sample though as it seems to lose a little detail if stark white. Was this a sunset lighting shot?

08-09-2010, 12:07 AM	#4
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Yep, as mentioned - off WB and exposure, needing some PP treatment. Lighting - harsh and unfortunately directioned unflatteringly. Composition - central with excessive redundant space either side and thus not so inviting DoF - good but perhaps too deep, making the background matter too easily discernible Perspective - OK but not special; too much clutter in the background

08-09-2010, 05:12 AM	#5
Dave Wiedemer Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Buffalo, New York Posts: 51	When posting or displaying a photo please don't ask, "what's wrong with it?" If the shot is worth shooting and you like it, it has some good and shows your creativness. My work in the past with film and the cost of prints turned my focus to filling the frame and making it happen. Today with the digital and image altering programs you have a lot more latitude. There is nothing wrong with using Photoshop or other programs to enhance the image. As a matter of fact I feel cheated if I don't employ a little something extra in my work. Enough rambling, keep shooting and display your best.... Dave

08-09-2010, 08:07 AM	#6
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484 Original Poster	Annemarie, Thank you for your input. Your version is basically the way this photo (jpg) started out but I dialed down the exposure some to get rid of some of the blown out areas. I like maximum detail in flower photos. Lee, This photo was taken at close to 9pm so yes, quite late. I had used a flash to try and balance things out a bit but with that type of sunlight, I guess it didn't work real well (the photo is a crop btw, not a closeup or macro). Ash, Lighting: Can't do much about the direction of the sun other than take a picture at a different time of the day. I did try and use a fill flash to even it out but apparently that failed. DOF: There is a reason I prefer to use full manual for a photo like this so I can control both exposure and DOF. 1/250s at f9 did leave a lot of stuff in the background. Dave, Really what I am asking is what would (if anything) make this photo gallery worthy. That is, what could I have done to keep it from being relegated to the Macro (which it isn't) gallery instead of the Premier gallery where I submitted it. I agree, I take photos for myself, but when I show them online, I want to know what will make somebody stop and look. The 'staff' doesn't give any feedback as to why they reject so I'm asking here. So, with that said, and all of your comments in mind.... Better? Worse?

08-09-2010, 08:56 AM	#7
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	I think the composition in the last crop has lost something. It's a better crop for the main subject, but the context of the daisies is gone. The two remaining ones then gain extra weight, making them jump out at me in a way I don't feel like is constructive for the image. You ask: "I want to know what will make somebody stop and look." What is the image about? There doesn't have to be an obvious answer -- in fact, it's often stronger when there's not -- but the image should invite the question. And if the answer is "here's a flower with an interesting texture", well, there's a lot of those, and a lot of pictures of them.

08-09-2010, 04:43 PM	#10
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Jeff, I'm going to withhold my opinions here for the biggest part.....others have done a good job of critique on these. My main problem is that I hate Gladiolas of most all types or colors, even dirty looking white ones I do have my reasons, but I won't detail them here....... However, if you had a handsome Squirrel in the photo, I'm sure I would find some way to praise it....for sure if he was eating it! Best Regards!

08-09-2010, 05:39 PM	#11
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484 Original Poster	Originally posted by cyy47 The background is kind of distracting. Instead of shooting down, I would at least get to the level of the flower, or even shooting up with an uncluttered sky as background. You can also place something to block light behind the flower and the background would turn uniformly black. Also with flash, I would try to light from the side with more directional light towards the flower to eliminate light spill. A easy homemade cereal box bogo would do. Cereal box bogo? What is it (I know what a cereal box is )? Getting the sky in either of those shots is out of the question. There just isn't an angle to do it from in these cases. A lower shooting angle is doable however, and 6 months hence when they bloom again, I'll give it a shot. I do agree however that looking up rather than down provides a more dramatic looking angle.. Originally posted by Rupert Jeff, I'm going to withhold my opinions here for the biggest part.....others have done a good job of critique on these. My main problem is that I hate Gladiolas of most all types or colors, even dirty looking white ones I do have my reasons, but I won't detail them here....... However, if you had a handsome Squirrel in the photo, I'm sure I would find some way to praise it....for sure if he was eating it! Best Regards! Rupert, Meet Rocky. He is a Detroit dweller who spends his mornings at my lawyer's house getting fat on whatever treats have been left for him. So not only is my flower shot a less than great one but I've misidentified the plant..

08-09-2010, 06:25 PM	#12
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Well, you made up for it with that handsome Squirrel! Best Regards

08-09-2010, 10:15 PM	#13
kmwsbabe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 100	Composition wise, I like where you were headed with the roses. I like the foreground interest. There's something a bit distracting above the flowers, though. It looks like some cloning or smudging gone awry. You asked what makes a photo good enough to make the viewer pause and admire. A white daisy in a sea of lavender. A static face in an undulating crowd. And so much more. It's the difference between a Hallmark photo, destined for the trash bin, and a priceless Monet. It's a respect for lighting and a gift for composition that draws the viewer in. It is great that you are posting for feedback. So much great advice here. Listen to it. And keep clicking!

08-09-2010, 10:52 PM	#14
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484 Original Poster	kmwsbabe, The distraction is likely an out of focus branch moving around in the wind that probably kicked up 3 seconds before shutter time. Those rose bushes in that location are 6-9 feet tall. I've actually pulled 20 foot growths out of the tree on the other side of the yard. The photo was posted to show impact (as I see it) of flowers against the sky. I do appreciate your input on Any photo I post. Feel free to speak right up. Even if people hate my pictures, if they are talking about them, then they've served a purpose

08-10-2010, 04:26 PM	#15
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by JeffJS Ok, I know I'm probably trying some people's patience here but I'm really trying to learn something. Yes, to me, it's a flower with some interesting texture. There really is no question in the photo other than perhaps wtf was he thinking? What he (I) was thinking, here are some nice flowers, let me try my newish 43mm Limited lens on something other than the dog. Keep in mind that you're talking to someone who primarily uses his camera to take pictures of how cute his own kids are. There's no shame in that, or in pictures of pretty flowers or cute pets. But you ask the question of how to make a photograph that really stands out, and I think in order to do that, you need something which goes beyond the surface-level of a snapshot. This can certainly be done with apparently-mundane subjects, but I think those work best when either 1) there is something particularly unique about the particular subject or its presentation, or 2) the image is part of a body of work exploring that subject in a larger context. Originally posted by JeffJS So to take your suggestions to mind (Matt), In my opinion that's the strongest I've seen in this thread. There's kind of a dialog between the dotted, soft background daisies and the large textured foreground flower, which is nice.