People I stink with an external flash

applejax · 12-25-2010, 05:29 PM

Was hoping to get some suggestions for improvement. I just can't seem to get my pics with an external flash to come out right. I typically bounce off the ceiling, but a lot of times, the lighting still seems harsh. Can anyone see what might be going on in any of these shots?

Washed out skin tones:

Harsh in center of face:

Still getting shadows:

Any suggestions or tips are appreciated!

atupdate · 12-25-2010, 06:07 PM

I think you will get better answers if you list the camera and flash you are using. Also, what camera mode (Av, Tv, P, Auto). The advise will vary depending on your answers.

In general, I stopped using bounce flash, as it was tough to guess how much flash would be lost due to distance variance. I now use one of these flash diffusers (DIY link below) and I find the results more consistant (I normally bump my exposure +0.5 to +1).

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/do-yourself/50941-diy-making-flash-bouncer.html

Tim

Ole · 12-25-2010, 06:22 PM

Shadows like in the last photo are totally acceptable.

Using the flash off camera to one of the sides and perhaps with a diffuser to soften the light might be worth a try.

Note that if you get too close you can't really avoid overexposure because the flash has a limit to how little light it can emit. Most, if not all, Pentax flashes have 70cm as the closest distance.

Rupert · 12-25-2010, 07:44 PM

The last two look pretty good to me. The Stoffen diffuser is a great device and one of my best investments for flash. Get one, it will change your luck quickly.
STO-FEN Products

I really don't like flash because it is not predictable enough and is often too harsh or washed out, but if you practice a lot you can improve your chances.
Best Regards!

LScrabeck · 12-26-2010, 06:53 AM

Hi,
Like Rupert, I use the Sto-Fen Omni Bounce on my AF360. I used it on a K100d and now have a K-x. Have avoided using the flash unless absolutely necessary as results have been predictably less than desirable. Got rid of shadows but colors were harsh. I usually shoot in AV mode at f8. So in preparation for taking Christmas photos I wanted to figure this out and it was really easy. This may sound like a "dah--why didn't you do this before".
I set the white balance from Auto (AWB) to Flash.
Took 50+ flash shots of kids, grandkids, others and all came out very nice. Ist time I've ever been happy with using the flash.
So to summarize--get a diffuser and get off Auto.
Good luck--Larry

Mike Cash · 12-26-2010, 07:12 AM

Are you using a flash model that has a secondary "kicker" flash on the front? The shadow of the left hand pinky finger in the first photo clearly didn't come from being bounced off the ceiling. Ditto the other fingers (especially the right hand).

The strobe is clearly visible in the eyes on both the second and third shots, which also made me ask if your flash has a secondary on it. It is hard to imagine how those got there with a single output flash aimed at the ceiling.

The third shot also looks like it was bounced off a wall that was perhaps way too close, resulting in the distractingly sharp-edged shadows.

(When posting images over 800 pixels wide please use the "imgwide" tags instead of the "img" tags so we don't have to scroll horizontally to read posts).

applejax · 12-26-2010, 08:12 AM

Thanks for the observations and suggestions.

I am using the Pentax 540, and it does have a diffuser on it. I don't know if there's a secondary on it. I'm not sure what mode I was on since I've been switching them around, trying to get better flash shots. It's actually good to hear that others have some unpredictable results, so it's not just me.

I might try a flash off-camera to play with it, but I typically can't bet set up like that. These are just me walking around a family party with the camera.

It's also interesting to hear that I may be too close. I may try a longer lens next time so that I can get a bit further away. I may very well have been in that range of 70 cm for at least two of the shots.

When I change modes, the flash will attempt to compensate for however I set the camera, correct? So if the flash is set to P-TTL and I have the camera on M, the flash will attempt to correct the exposure that I've set?

Mike, thanks for the posting tip. Thanks for the observations, too.

It sounds like one of the things I need to do is to get further from the subject when I'm using the flash.

slowpez · 12-26-2010, 09:05 AM

I know nothing about using a flash but I do know a cute baby when I see one and that is one really cute baby.

Daniel_r · 12-26-2010, 09:45 AM

That second picture is awesome, had me smiling.
The only way I use flash is if I can put some secondary lighting in as well or diffuse it. I use rice paper as a diffuser.

mtroute · 12-26-2010, 12:22 PM

The stofen is a great investment, additionally try dragging the shutter (shoot in TV mode) and stop down the aperture a bit I shoot around 1/30 to 1/15th when I can. The focus on this one is a bit soft but otherwise demonstrates the results.

anthers · 12-26-2010, 12:42 PM

Looks to me like you need less flash and more ambient. Dial down the flash EV comp, open up the shutter a little to compensate. You can also soften the flash light by bouncing off a more distant wall/object.

I agree, flash exposure is hard.

Usuqa · 12-26-2010, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Ole

Shadows like in the last photo are totally acceptable.

Using the flash off camera to one of the sides and perhaps with a diffuser to soften the light might be worth a try.

Note that if you get too close you can't really avoid overexposure because the flash has a limit to how little light it can emit. Most, if not all, Pentax flashes have 70cm as the closest distance.

If you enable HSS you can up the shutter speed which will also kill flash power enabling you to shoot closer.

magkelly · 12-26-2010, 06:29 PM

Two suggestions? Take the flash off the camera and diffuse it. For portraits I think it's a lot softer using the flash off to the side with a diffuser. Actually I hardly ever use my flashes on the camera anymore. I like the results you get when you take the flash off the camera far better. I use a piece of cheese cloth, wax paper, or one of those little white rice paper Chinese lanterns over my flash usually. The same with really bright lights. I try to put a bit of sheer white curtain before them and my subject to cut the bad shadows and to soften the light up a bit. Honestly I prefer soft daylight to flash but indoors I tend to just use more diffused lighting than the flash and a reflector if possible. I just don't like the eye shadows you get with your basic flash on the camera routine. Ever since I first learned you can take it off and use it manually I've hardly ever kept the flash on my cameras.

Rupert · 12-26-2010, 08:12 PM

Here are a couple I took tonight of my Dolly at a little Christmas Party. I used the K20D, 540 Flash with Sto-fen Omni Bounce Diffuser, and a Tokina 28-70 ATF AX AF 2.8 lens. I'm not all that good with flash but I liked these OK. Bounced the flash off the ceiling here.

My Dolly!
[IMG]

[/IMG]

We had a fun time! Toys, candy, and lots of Chokit' ! A few minutes after this shot you couldn't see any teeth! LOL!

The Omni Bounce is a worthwhile devise, it really softens the light and when used with Pttl you still get fairly accurate exposure.
Best Regards!
Rupert

applejax · 12-27-2010, 02:07 AM

Rupert, they look really good. Your setup sounds similar to mine - how close to the subject were you, and was it a normal (8' or so) height ceiling?

12-25-2010, 05:29 PM	#1
applejax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Albums Posts: 271	I stink with an external flash Was hoping to get some suggestions for improvement. I just can't seem to get my pics with an external flash to come out right. I typically bounce off the ceiling, but a lot of times, the lighting still seems harsh. Can anyone see what might be going on in any of these shots? Washed out skin tones: Harsh in center of face: Still getting shadows: Any suggestions or tips are appreciated!

12-26-2010, 12:22 PM	#10
mtroute Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Portland OR Posts: 533	The stofen is a great investment, additionally try dragging the shutter (shoot in TV mode) and stop down the aperture a bit I shoot around 1/30 to 1/15th when I can. The focus on this one is a bit soft but otherwise demonstrates the results. Last edited by mtroute; 12-26-2010 at 12:32 PM.

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12-25-2010, 06:07 PM	#2
atupdate Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,723	I think you will get better answers if you list the camera and flash you are using. Also, what camera mode (Av, Tv, P, Auto). The advise will vary depending on your answers. In general, I stopped using bounce flash, as it was tough to guess how much flash would be lost due to distance variance. I now use one of these flash diffusers (DIY link below) and I find the results more consistant (I normally bump my exposure +0.5 to +1). https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/do-yourself/50941-diy-making-flash-bouncer.html Tim

12-25-2010, 06:22 PM	#3
Ole Administrator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,408	Shadows like in the last photo are totally acceptable. Using the flash off camera to one of the sides and perhaps with a diffuser to soften the light might be worth a try. Note that if you get too close you can't really avoid overexposure because the flash has a limit to how little light it can emit. Most, if not all, Pentax flashes have 70cm as the closest distance.

12-25-2010, 07:44 PM	#4
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	The last two look pretty good to me. The Stoffen diffuser is a great device and one of my best investments for flash. Get one, it will change your luck quickly. STO-FEN Products I really don't like flash because it is not predictable enough and is often too harsh or washed out, but if you practice a lot you can improve your chances. Best Regards!

12-26-2010, 06:53 AM	#5
LScrabeck Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SE Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 43	Hi, Like Rupert, I use the Sto-Fen Omni Bounce on my AF360. I used it on a K100d and now have a K-x. Have avoided using the flash unless absolutely necessary as results have been predictably less than desirable. Got rid of shadows but colors were harsh. I usually shoot in AV mode at f8. So in preparation for taking Christmas photos I wanted to figure this out and it was really easy. This may sound like a "dah--why didn't you do this before". I set the white balance from Auto (AWB) to Flash. Took 50+ flash shots of kids, grandkids, others and all came out very nice. Ist time I've ever been happy with using the flash. So to summarize--get a diffuser and get off Auto. Good luck--Larry

12-26-2010, 07:12 AM	#6
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Are you using a flash model that has a secondary "kicker" flash on the front? The shadow of the left hand pinky finger in the first photo clearly didn't come from being bounced off the ceiling. Ditto the other fingers (especially the right hand). The strobe is clearly visible in the eyes on both the second and third shots, which also made me ask if your flash has a secondary on it. It is hard to imagine how those got there with a single output flash aimed at the ceiling. The third shot also looks like it was bounced off a wall that was perhaps way too close, resulting in the distractingly sharp-edged shadows. (When posting images over 800 pixels wide please use the "imgwide" tags instead of the "img" tags so we don't have to scroll horizontally to read posts).

12-26-2010, 08:12 AM	#7
applejax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Albums Posts: 271 Original Poster	Thanks for the observations and suggestions. I am using the Pentax 540, and it does have a diffuser on it. I don't know if there's a secondary on it. I'm not sure what mode I was on since I've been switching them around, trying to get better flash shots. It's actually good to hear that others have some unpredictable results, so it's not just me. I might try a flash off-camera to play with it, but I typically can't bet set up like that. These are just me walking around a family party with the camera. It's also interesting to hear that I may be too close. I may try a longer lens next time so that I can get a bit further away. I may very well have been in that range of 70 cm for at least two of the shots. When I change modes, the flash will attempt to compensate for however I set the camera, correct? So if the flash is set to P-TTL and I have the camera on M, the flash will attempt to correct the exposure that I've set? Mike, thanks for the posting tip. Thanks for the observations, too. It sounds like one of the things I need to do is to get further from the subject when I'm using the flash.

12-26-2010, 09:05 AM	#8
slowpez Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 18,462	I know nothing about using a flash but I do know a cute baby when I see one and that is one really cute baby.

12-26-2010, 09:45 AM	#9
Daniel_r Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 108	That second picture is awesome, had me smiling. The only way I use flash is if I can put some secondary lighting in as well or diffuse it. I use rice paper as a diffuser.

12-26-2010, 12:42 PM	#11
anthers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: California Photos: Albums Posts: 125	Looks to me like you need less flash and more ambient. Dial down the flash EV comp, open up the shutter a little to compensate. You can also soften the flash light by bouncing off a more distant wall/object. I agree, flash exposure is hard.

12-26-2010, 05:05 PM	#12
Usuqa Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland Photos: Gallery Posts: 348	Originally posted by Ole Shadows like in the last photo are totally acceptable. Using the flash off camera to one of the sides and perhaps with a diffuser to soften the light might be worth a try. Note that if you get too close you can't really avoid overexposure because the flash has a limit to how little light it can emit. Most, if not all, Pentax flashes have 70cm as the closest distance. If you enable HSS you can up the shutter speed which will also kill flash power enabling you to shoot closer.

12-26-2010, 06:29 PM	#13
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Two suggestions? Take the flash off the camera and diffuse it. For portraits I think it's a lot softer using the flash off to the side with a diffuser. Actually I hardly ever use my flashes on the camera anymore. I like the results you get when you take the flash off the camera far better. I use a piece of cheese cloth, wax paper, or one of those little white rice paper Chinese lanterns over my flash usually. The same with really bright lights. I try to put a bit of sheer white curtain before them and my subject to cut the bad shadows and to soften the light up a bit. Honestly I prefer soft daylight to flash but indoors I tend to just use more diffused lighting than the flash and a reflector if possible. I just don't like the eye shadows you get with your basic flash on the camera routine. Ever since I first learned you can take it off and use it manually I've hardly ever kept the flash on my cameras.

12-26-2010, 08:12 PM	#14
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Here are a couple I took tonight of my Dolly at a little Christmas Party. I used the K20D, 540 Flash with Sto-fen Omni Bounce Diffuser, and a Tokina 28-70 ATF AX AF 2.8 lens. I'm not all that good with flash but I liked these OK. Bounced the flash off the ceiling here. My Dolly! [IMG] [/IMG] We had a fun time! Toys, candy, and lots of Chokit' ! A few minutes after this shot you couldn't see any teeth! LOL! The Omni Bounce is a worthwhile devise, it really softens the light and when used with Pttl you still get fairly accurate exposure. Best Regards! Rupert

12-27-2010, 02:07 AM	#15
applejax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Albums Posts: 271 Original Poster	Rupert, they look really good. Your setup sounds similar to mine - how close to the subject were you, and was it a normal (8' or so) height ceiling?