Black & White Playing with Black and White, which looks better

cmohr · 05-31-2012, 05:39 AM

Just playing with Black and White settings, First is the Black and White straight out of the K-5, Then I had a quick play, tried to get a bit more contrast, little sharpening, darken up shadows. What am I missing? Ideas welcome.

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weakhead · 06-01-2012, 09:03 AM

Nice composition, seems quite dynamic. But... it lacks color. I mean, I don't think that B&W style benefit in this example.
Also... you shoot B&W with camera, in JPG?
Whatever you did with second version, you overdid it - blacks and lights are heavily clipped. It's also oversharpened. Eyes got confused a lot here (at least my does).

Oh, I can see large perspective distortion - see the buildings on the left?

Macario · 06-01-2012, 10:59 AM

neither of them actually works for me, not dramatic enough. You should try to get the bridge lot lighter and the sky lot darker. Should be possible with the channel mixer (unless the bridge is also a shade of blue) Also adding vignetting might work

Brisboy · 06-02-2012, 02:53 AM

Hey, that's Brisbane! I actually quite like the treatment of the first. For the second are you working from raw or are you reprocessing the first jpg?

**Bruce Clark** · 06-02-2012, 03:45 AM

On my monitor #2 is showing banding in the sky.

lux-ad-artem · 06-02-2012, 04:01 AM

The best dramatic B&W effects I've gotten, I've achieved with NIK Silver Efex software. Shoot in RAW (colour, of course) and convert. If NIK isn't an option, so long as you have Lightroom, try converting to grayscale and playing with the luminescence levels of the colours - perhaps drag down the blue level to achieve a darker sky.

You may also like to try this shot when there are some clouds in the sky with a circular polarizer on your lens.

Na Horuk · 06-02-2012, 05:16 AM

I like #1 more. Consider the following crop, though. Basically I rotated a little to level the horizon and cropped so the horizon is on the 1/3 line and there os a meeting point of lines on a 1/3 spot. But I'm not sure this adds a lot at all.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 05-23-2017 at 09:02 AM.

cmohr · 06-02-2012, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the comments guys, I think I'll have to get Lightroom or similar, the basic programs I'm using just dont have the right tools for this stuff. I'm shooting Raw+ with the jepg being B&W so I can get an idea of what the contrast levels are like. They actually look better on the back of the K-5 than on my computer. I agree with the crop too.

cmohr

**MSL** · 06-02-2012, 09:39 PM

First is okay, second is too bright in places, but I agree with other posters that neither really works.

**Schraubstock** · 06-03-2012, 03:39 AM

Hi

I am a bit disappointed for the OP that nobody likes the image much. I have to swim against the tide. Architectural shots with angles courageously flying allover the place into your face, I must admit is possibly not everyone's thing, but I think it makes us look at structures in an unfamiliar way. And therein, for me, lies the attraction.

This image can be made to look good, in my opinion, with a bit of TLC.

Firstly the buildings in the background need to be straightened up as their "leaning" does not add to the construction of the shot but distracts from it. There are enough funny angles in the main subject and more in the background don't help. I have also lightened the image a bit here and darkened it a bit there. And finally I have cropped a bit to make the image look a bit more "condensed" for want of better description. Now, to my eye, the image sits nicely balanced in the frame.

Greetings

fg-one · 06-03-2012, 03:58 AM

Starting from Schraubstock's version, which I prefer for its corrected distortion, this is how I would crop it. The buildings now play a central part and the distracting white bridge on the right is minimized.

twitch · 06-03-2012, 04:30 AM

That last version is a winner. I too think its an excellent shot.

cmohr · 06-03-2012, 05:13 AM

Thanks Guys, the distortion of the Sigma 8-16 at 8mm is huge, and yes, I need a program to counter that, I agree, cropping off the bridge to the side, I've done that with other versions of this same subject previously. The bridge itsself is a real curvey bugger, and its asymetrical as well, the main beam on one side is much larger than the other, and I'm also tilting the camera up at almost 45deg in this as well, (some of that beam you see at the top of the pic, is actually physically behind me). This is one of the reasons I want a FF. Might pop back again with the trusty old 12-24, bit less distortion, and do some more. Ordering Lightroom this week, see how I go with that too.

Thanks for the comment and thoughts everybody.

cmohr

**MSL** · 06-03-2012, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Schraubstock

Hi I am a bit disappointed for the OP that nobody likes the image much. I have to swim against the tide. Architectural shots with angles courageously flying allover the place into your face, I must admit is possibly not everyone's thing, but I think it makes us look at structures in an unfamiliar way. And therein, for me, lies the attraction. This image can be made to look good, in my opinion, with a bit of TLC. Firstly the buildings in the background need to be straightened up as their "leaning" does not add to the construction of the shot but distracts from it. There are enough funny angles in the main subject and more in the background don't help. I have also lightened the image a bit here and darkened it a bit there. And finally I have cropped a bit to make the image look a bit more "condensed" for want of better description. Now, to my eye, the image sits nicely balanced in the frame.

I'm glad you came to the OP's rescue, but I think there are two issues at play that are being convoluted. The OP primarily seemed to be interested in whether the shot worked as a B&W. In that respect I think most of the criticism is valid, and even for the corrected images I don't think the B&W conversion works. In terms of it being a architectural shots it has a lot of features that do challenge the norm. A lot of credit should be given for that, but that isn't the question we were focusing on, at least I wasn't.

Let's call it an image worth revisiting with new software and techniques until the hidden gem is extracted.

selar · 06-12-2012, 05:48 PM

Its just the Queenslanders, they are too used to bending bananas for a living, now they are bending buildings instead.

Jokes aside, Cmohr inspired me to get the 8-16, and I quite like his style. To me , the shots would have been even better, if there was a way to get rid of the railings and the buildings in the background and get a more dramatic viewpoint on the sails.

06-03-2012, 03:39 AM	#10
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Hi I am a bit disappointed for the OP that nobody likes the image much. I have to swim against the tide. Architectural shots with angles courageously flying allover the place into your face, I must admit is possibly not everyone's thing, but I think it makes us look at structures in an unfamiliar way. And therein, for me, lies the attraction. This image can be made to look good, in my opinion, with a bit of TLC. Firstly the buildings in the background need to be straightened up as their "leaning" does not add to the construction of the shot but distracts from it. There are enough funny angles in the main subject and more in the background don't help. I have also lightened the image a bit here and darkened it a bit there. And finally I have cropped a bit to make the image look a bit more "condensed" for want of better description. Now, to my eye, the image sits nicely balanced in the frame. Greetings Last edited by Schraubstock; 09-16-2012 at 05:34 PM.

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06-01-2012, 09:03 AM	#2
weakhead Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 73	Nice composition, seems quite dynamic. But... it lacks color. I mean, I don't think that B&W style benefit in this example. Also... you shoot B&W with camera, in JPG? Whatever you did with second version, you overdid it - blacks and lights are heavily clipped. It's also oversharpened. Eyes got confused a lot here (at least my does). Oh, I can see large perspective distortion - see the buildings on the left?

06-01-2012, 10:59 AM	#3
Macario Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Hoek van Holland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,393	neither of them actually works for me, not dramatic enough. You should try to get the bridge lot lighter and the sky lot darker. Should be possible with the channel mixer (unless the bridge is also a shade of blue) Also adding vignetting might work

06-02-2012, 02:53 AM	#4
Brisboy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Cairns, Qld Posts: 204	Hey, that's Brisbane! I actually quite like the treatment of the first. For the second are you working from raw or are you reprocessing the first jpg?

06-02-2012, 03:45 AM	#5
Bruce Clark Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ocean Grove, Victoria Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,458	On my monitor #2 is showing banding in the sky.

06-02-2012, 04:01 AM	#6
lux-ad-artem New Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ontario Posts: 9	The best dramatic B&W effects I've gotten, I've achieved with NIK Silver Efex software. Shoot in RAW (colour, of course) and convert. If NIK isn't an option, so long as you have Lightroom, try converting to grayscale and playing with the luminescence levels of the colours - perhaps drag down the blue level to achieve a darker sky. You may also like to try this shot when there are some clouds in the sky with a circular polarizer on your lens.

06-02-2012, 05:16 AM	#7
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	I like #1 more. Consider the following crop, though. Basically I rotated a little to level the horizon and cropped so the horizon is on the 1/3 line and there os a meeting point of lines on a 1/3 spot. But I'm not sure this adds a lot at all. Last edited by Na Horuk; 05-23-2017 at 09:02 AM.

06-02-2012, 05:14 PM	#8
cmohr Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Brisbane. Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,824 Original Poster	Thanks for the comments guys, I think I'll have to get Lightroom or similar, the basic programs I'm using just dont have the right tools for this stuff. I'm shooting Raw+ with the jepg being B&W so I can get an idea of what the contrast levels are like. They actually look better on the back of the K-5 than on my computer. I agree with the crop too. cmohr

06-02-2012, 09:39 PM	#9
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	First is okay, second is too bright in places, but I agree with other posters that neither really works.

06-03-2012, 04:30 AM	#12
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	That last version is a winner. I too think its an excellent shot.

06-03-2012, 05:13 AM	#13
cmohr Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Brisbane. Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,824 Original Poster	Thanks Guys, the distortion of the Sigma 8-16 at 8mm is huge, and yes, I need a program to counter that, I agree, cropping off the bridge to the side, I've done that with other versions of this same subject previously. The bridge itsself is a real curvey bugger, and its asymetrical as well, the main beam on one side is much larger than the other, and I'm also tilting the camera up at almost 45deg in this as well, (some of that beam you see at the top of the pic, is actually physically behind me). This is one of the reasons I want a FF. Might pop back again with the trusty old 12-24, bit less distortion, and do some more. Ordering Lightroom this week, see how I go with that too. Thanks for the comment and thoughts everybody. cmohr

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06-03-2012, 06:47 AM	#14
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by Schraubstock Hi I am a bit disappointed for the OP that nobody likes the image much. I have to swim against the tide. Architectural shots with angles courageously flying allover the place into your face, I must admit is possibly not everyone's thing, but I think it makes us look at structures in an unfamiliar way. And therein, for me, lies the attraction. This image can be made to look good, in my opinion, with a bit of TLC. Firstly the buildings in the background need to be straightened up as their "leaning" does not add to the construction of the shot but distracts from it. There are enough funny angles in the main subject and more in the background don't help. I have also lightened the image a bit here and darkened it a bit there. And finally I have cropped a bit to make the image look a bit more "condensed" for want of better description. Now, to my eye, the image sits nicely balanced in the frame. I'm glad you came to the OP's rescue, but I think there are two issues at play that are being convoluted. The OP primarily seemed to be interested in whether the shot worked as a B&W. In that respect I think most of the criticism is valid, and even for the corrected images I don't think the B&W conversion works. In terms of it being a architectural shots it has a lot of features that do challenge the norm. A lot of credit should be given for that, but that isn't the question we were focusing on, at least I wasn't. Let's call it an image worth revisiting with new software and techniques until the hidden gem is extracted.

06-12-2012, 05:48 PM	#15
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	Its just the Queenslanders, they are too used to bending bananas for a living, now they are bending buildings instead. Jokes aside, Cmohr inspired me to get the 8-16, and I quite like his style. To me , the shots would have been even better, if there was a way to get rid of the railings and the buildings in the background and get a more dramatic viewpoint on the sails.