People First concert -- please C&C

c-meier · 08-22-2012, 10:42 AM

Hello all,
so, this is the first time I shoot a concert, non-professionally, of course -- was harder than I thought. I am kinda limited in terms of gear. I had a FA43 and an old soviet 135mm 3.5 (Jupiter 37-A). I ended up almost only using the 43, because the tele is terribly soft wide open.
I am pretty disappointed at the results and would appreciate your comments or tips on what I could do better next time. PP suggestions are also welcome.

May I present, Alminar Ensemble:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105255066783959366873/AlminarEnsembleArtistasDe...eat=directlink

Last edited by c-meier; 09-16-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: guidelines

eddie1960 · 08-22-2012, 10:59 AM - **1 Like**

the first and the second last are quite good. their stage setup with everyone sitting behind mike stands and music stands would be a real challenge to say the least.
#1 is the best here i think good composition and exposure
#2 the composition and shot is generally blah. and focus is missed i think
#3 is focused on the stands (manual focus would have helped)
#4 is actually not bad nice and moody but there is no specific subject
#5,6,7 are all reasonable, the performers themselves aren't doing anything exciting but they are well captured
Shooting live music is always a challenge (light changes constantly and is rarely very strong, then there is capturing the moment- here it helps to know the performers from previous shows or just be familiar with their style so you can track for it. I've shot a lot of shows over the years and some musicians are tough to capture no matter what as well (rock shows are far easier IMO because they can be more animated in general than classical. the 43 definitely is a good lens to have in your arsenal for this. a DA* 50-135 or a 70-200 2.8 is also an excellent tool. I do shoot a lot of shows with Manual focus lenses but it means a smaller keeper rate (and generally less shots overall)
This is one of those things that the more you do it the better you get. Fortunately it costs nothing to shoot more frames in digital (I've shot shows in the 70's on bulk loaded b/w film and would have to limit myself to 1 or 2 rolls of 36 being too poor to shoot more - sometimes i would only walk away with a couple of shots i was happy with. Digital made me much better at it when i returned to shooting music in 2006 and could review as i went.

the hardest thingh is when you are on a press pass and have only 2-3 songs at the beginning of a show in the pit to get the shot. the band is rarely warmed up and putting on the best part of the show. I had this discussion with Iggy pop once when he complained that concert photography isn't what it was in the 70's, I countered saying in the 70's i could shoot a whole show with may camera unhindered by security goons and could then wait for him to really get going mid set

wildweasel · 08-22-2012, 11:02 AM

They're not too bad at all for a first attempt; fairly good composition and you've captured the mood nicely. I'd say you need to double your shutter speed and maybe stop down a little (from reading your EXIF) I always shoot concerts and gigs in RAW, dialled down between 1 and 2 stops on EV comp. and pulling back later in PP. This avoids any blown highlights and keeps the ISO low and ends up with much nicer looking photos.

For PP I'd drop a little saturation, dial down the blue - it's amazing how much more colour and detail you get with -10 blue - and add a little sharpening, maybe a radius of 1 - 1.5 with 15 - 20%.

Give me two minutes and I'll do a quick job on one of them for you.

Here you go, couple of minutes using Faststone. +2 bright, -17 blue, -14 saturation, +2 contrast. 0.7 radius and 20 on sharpening. Just gives it a little more 'pop' in my opinion. Also, if you've not used Faststone, give it a go. It's free and pretty basic, but can do most of what I want very quickly an easily.

c-meier · 08-22-2012, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

... #3 is focused on the stands (manual focus would have helped) #4 is actually not bad nice and moody but there is no specific subject ...

Ooops. I removed those shots, as per the 5 photo limit. Here they are for reference: https://picasaweb.google.com/105255066783959366873/AlminarEnsembleArtistasDe...eat=directlink

Originally posted by wildweasel

They're not too bad at all for a first attempt; fairly good composition and you've captured the mood nicely. I'd say you need to double your shutter speed and maybe stop down a little (from reading your EXIF) I always shoot concerts and gigs in RAW, dialled down between 1 and 2 stops on EV comp. and pulling back later in PP. This avoids any blown highlights and keeps the ISO low and ends up with much nicer looking photos.

Thanks for the tips. I was already maxed out: shot most of those @ISO 1600. I think I used EV comp of -1.
EDIT: Actually those were the setting I started out with. The shots above range from ISO 400 to 1600 and EV -1 to 0

Originally posted by wildweasel

Give me two minutes and I'll do a quick job on one of them for you.

That would be very cool, thank you. I can provide you with higher res versions, if you want.

Last edited by c-meier; 08-22-2012 at 11:31 AM.

c-meier · 09-16-2012, 10:50 AM

So, today I am going to shoot my second concert. Will keep your tips in mind. This time I hope to get more interesting shots. It's a salsa ensemble, so there should be more action both on the stage and in the crowd.
This time I'll also have a newer camera and possibly a faster lens, the M50 1.4. Might still stick to the FA43, though. Don't like the lack of contrast in the former lens. The Jupiter will probably stay in the bag, too. I think I will be able to get quite close to the musicians, anyways.

Still trying to decide if I should shoot RAW or jpeg. I know RAW would be the way to go, but my current computer is so old it will take me forever to edit the K-30's larger files.

wildweasel · 09-16-2012, 01:51 PM

A salsa band should be great fun to shoot. Don't know if you're on FB, but have a look at these if you like - it's fun to mess around with the performers and crowd (or what there was of one at the first gig anyway...)

Good luck and have fun.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.420521361307123.112372.100000477870165&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.511263025566289.131588.100000477870165&type=3

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.105740159576322.14601.100004210152699&type=3

BTW, the first and third sets were shot on the kit lens; the third set was taken the day I got my K5 and took it out for a first spin, so with the lenses you've listed you should be able to pull a lot more out.

c-meier · 09-17-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by wildweasel

A salsa band should be great fun to shoot.

Yes, it was. The venue was smaller than I expected and it being Sunday there wasn't much of a crowd. So I took the opportunity to get really close to the performers, and use the Samyang 14mm.
The lighting was tricky, constantly cycling between four or five colors and bounced off the white walls and ceiling right next to the musicians. Maybe I should have brought a speedlight. Well, perhaps next time.

Attached is one example, straight from the camera. Will start a new thread when I get around to edit the shots. Probably later this week.

Originally posted by wildweasel

Don't know if you're on FB, but have a look at these if you like -

I like those a lot. Every set has its own mood, quite fitting, I think, to the bands you shot.
A propos facebook, I have been hesitant to share some shots there, because I don't really know what they do to the photos one uploads, but it really messes with colors. And introduces jpeg artifacts, specially in the blacks. Annoying.

Attached Images

09-16-2012, 01:51 PM	#6
wildweasel Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Plymouth Posts: 359	A salsa band should be great fun to shoot. Don't know if you're on FB, but have a look at these if you like - it's fun to mess around with the performers and crowd (or what there was of one at the first gig anyway...) Good luck and have fun. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.420521361307123.112372.100000477870165&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.511263025566289.131588.100000477870165&type=3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.105740159576322.14601.100004210152699&type=3 BTW, the first and third sets were shot on the kit lens; the third set was taken the day I got my K5 and took it out for a first spin, so with the lenses you've listed you should be able to pull a lot more out. Last edited by wildweasel; 09-16-2012 at 01:58 PM.

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08-22-2012, 10:42 AM	#1
c-meier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Concepción, Chile Posts: 128	First concert -- please C&C Lens: FA43 Ltd, Jupiter 37-A Camera: Samsung GX-10 Hello all, so, this is the first time I shoot a concert, non-professionally, of course -- was harder than I thought. I am kinda limited in terms of gear. I had a FA43 and an old soviet 135mm 3.5 (Jupiter 37-A). I ended up almost only using the 43, because the tele is terribly soft wide open. I am pretty disappointed at the results and would appreciate your comments or tips on what I could do better next time. PP suggestions are also welcome. May I present, Alminar Ensemble: https://picasaweb.google.com/105255066783959366873/AlminarEnsembleArtistasDe...eat=directlink Last edited by c-meier; 09-16-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: guidelines

08-22-2012, 10:59 AM - 1 Like	#2
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	the first and the second last are quite good. their stage setup with everyone sitting behind mike stands and music stands would be a real challenge to say the least. #1 is the best here i think good composition and exposure #2 the composition and shot is generally blah. and focus is missed i think #3 is focused on the stands (manual focus would have helped) #4 is actually not bad nice and moody but there is no specific subject #5,6,7 are all reasonable, the performers themselves aren't doing anything exciting but they are well captured Shooting live music is always a challenge (light changes constantly and is rarely very strong, then there is capturing the moment- here it helps to know the performers from previous shows or just be familiar with their style so you can track for it. I've shot a lot of shows over the years and some musicians are tough to capture no matter what as well (rock shows are far easier IMO because they can be more animated in general than classical. the 43 definitely is a good lens to have in your arsenal for this. a DA* 50-135 or a 70-200 2.8 is also an excellent tool. I do shoot a lot of shows with Manual focus lenses but it means a smaller keeper rate (and generally less shots overall) This is one of those things that the more you do it the better you get. Fortunately it costs nothing to shoot more frames in digital (I've shot shows in the 70's on bulk loaded b/w film and would have to limit myself to 1 or 2 rolls of 36 being too poor to shoot more - sometimes i would only walk away with a couple of shots i was happy with. Digital made me much better at it when i returned to shooting music in 2006 and could review as i went. the hardest thingh is when you are on a press pass and have only 2-3 songs at the beginning of a show in the pit to get the shot. the band is rarely warmed up and putting on the best part of the show. I had this discussion with Iggy pop once when he complained that concert photography isn't what it was in the 70's, I countered saying in the 70's i could shoot a whole show with may camera unhindered by security goons and could then wait for him to really get going mid set

08-22-2012, 11:02 AM	#3
wildweasel Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Plymouth Posts: 359	They're not too bad at all for a first attempt; fairly good composition and you've captured the mood nicely. I'd say you need to double your shutter speed and maybe stop down a little (from reading your EXIF) I always shoot concerts and gigs in RAW, dialled down between 1 and 2 stops on EV comp. and pulling back later in PP. This avoids any blown highlights and keeps the ISO low and ends up with much nicer looking photos. For PP I'd drop a little saturation, dial down the blue - it's amazing how much more colour and detail you get with -10 blue - and add a little sharpening, maybe a radius of 1 - 1.5 with 15 - 20%. Give me two minutes and I'll do a quick job on one of them for you. Here you go, couple of minutes using Faststone. +2 bright, -17 blue, -14 saturation, +2 contrast. 0.7 radius and 20 on sharpening. Just gives it a little more 'pop' in my opinion. Also, if you've not used Faststone, give it a go. It's free and pretty basic, but can do most of what I want very quickly an easily. Attached Images Last edited by wildweasel; 08-22-2012 at 11:10 AM.

08-22-2012, 11:12 AM	#4
c-meier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Concepción, Chile Posts: 128 Original Poster	Originally posted by eddie1960 ... #3 is focused on the stands (manual focus would have helped) #4 is actually not bad nice and moody but there is no specific subject ... Ooops. I removed those shots, as per the 5 photo limit. Here they are for reference: https://picasaweb.google.com/105255066783959366873/AlminarEnsembleArtistasDe...eat=directlink Originally posted by wildweasel They're not too bad at all for a first attempt; fairly good composition and you've captured the mood nicely. I'd say you need to double your shutter speed and maybe stop down a little (from reading your EXIF) I always shoot concerts and gigs in RAW, dialled down between 1 and 2 stops on EV comp. and pulling back later in PP. This avoids any blown highlights and keeps the ISO low and ends up with much nicer looking photos. Thanks for the tips. I was already maxed out: shot most of those @ISO 1600. I think I used EV comp of -1. EDIT: Actually those were the setting I started out with. The shots above range from ISO 400 to 1600 and EV -1 to 0 Originally posted by wildweasel Give me two minutes and I'll do a quick job on one of them for you. That would be very cool, thank you. I can provide you with higher res versions, if you want. Last edited by c-meier; 08-22-2012 at 11:31 AM.

09-16-2012, 10:50 AM	#5
c-meier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Concepción, Chile Posts: 128 Original Poster	So, today I am going to shoot my second concert. Will keep your tips in mind. This time I hope to get more interesting shots. It's a salsa ensemble, so there should be more action both on the stage and in the crowd. This time I'll also have a newer camera and possibly a faster lens, the M50 1.4. Might still stick to the FA43, though. Don't like the lack of contrast in the former lens. The Jupiter will probably stay in the bag, too. I think I will be able to get quite close to the musicians, anyways. Still trying to decide if I should shoot RAW or jpeg. I know RAW would be the way to go, but my current computer is so old it will take me forever to edit the K-30's larger files.

09-17-2012, 03:10 PM	#7
c-meier Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Concepción, Chile Posts: 128 Original Poster	Originally posted by wildweasel A salsa band should be great fun to shoot. Yes, it was. The venue was smaller than I expected and it being Sunday there wasn't much of a crowd. So I took the opportunity to get really close to the performers, and use the Samyang 14mm. The lighting was tricky, constantly cycling between four or five colors and bounced off the white walls and ceiling right next to the musicians. Maybe I should have brought a speedlight. Well, perhaps next time. Attached is one example, straight from the camera. Will start a new thread when I get around to edit the shots. Probably later this week. Originally posted by wildweasel Don't know if you're on FB, but have a look at these if you like - I like those a lot. Every set has its own mood, quite fitting, I think, to the bands you shot. A propos facebook, I have been hesitant to share some shots there, because I don't really know what they do to the photos one uploads, but it really messes with colors. And introduces jpeg artifacts, specially in the blacks. Annoying. Attached Images