People Is it a good idea to crop top of head when shooting couples?

**LaurenOE** · 08-26-2012, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by tweet25

I just took a class where the teacher said 'everybody has a top to their head, you don't always have to show it".
I agree that it doesn't work here, but she showed examples of when it worked well.
did i take a bad class? when you say always, is that really always? or only in portrait style?
thank you

There are exceptions, obviously, and contexts to those exceptions. Every image has balance and an aesthetic to it. If you take a picture, where the focus of attention is drawn to the face/head, and you don't include the top of a head - as in the images above, you break the aesthetic -for a particular image.

However, here is an example where not only is the top of the head not there, but most of the face isn't either.

In the image above, the balance, and subject matter focuses the aesthetic toward the little girl's eyelashes. The light across her face. The light in her eyeglasses. The image has a focus and a relaxed dream-like quality. Again, no top of the head, no back of the head. The balance and aesthetic is purposeful.

As a commercial image, you can just make out "Ray-Ban", and subtly advertise her glasses.

**dadipentak** · 08-26-2012, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Inexorable

trust me asking my daughter to pose again would be a near impossible task,

I don't have that problem with my daughter--she loves the camera. It's my wife who's camera-shy.

JinDesu · 08-26-2012, 06:48 AM - **1 Like**

If the subject of the picture is so clear that missing the top of the head won't matter, like in Dadipentak's post, then you can crop the top. This seems to particularly apply for pictures where the face makes up for the majority of the shot.

A full or partial body shot should not crop any joints or the face.

Inexorable · 08-26-2012, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Allison

As mentioned, leaving yourself some room for cropping afterwards is always helpful. Taking off the top of the head can be used in an extreme close-up, but it doesn't work in a mid-range shot that includes the knees.

I think I understand what you were going for with the space to the left. This works better with a more neutral background:

Since the fireplace provides such a strong line, it is a little more important with that setting that it is either deliberately straight or deliberately slanted. Having it slightly off makes the picture feel slightly off. In the picture above it is more clear that the bricks are not straight on. Another option might have been to have them a little more away from the fire place and use a shallower depth of field to throw the fireplace softly out-of-focus.

All of the suggestions aside, you did a nice job exposing the skin tones!

Thanks for the valuable tips and the encouragement. I noticed the problem with the distortion in the fireplace line but had no clue how to handle it.

demp10 · 08-26-2012, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Inexorable

The photo was shot with deliberate cropping and now I feel stupid about it. From your reply it appears pros crop in PP, not while taking the shot. Is that a correct assumption?

When you take a picture your main focus should be overall composition, exposure, focus, general lighting, etc. but not necessarily final cropping. Just make sure you get everything in the frame that potentially you will use.

Cropping is an art form of its own and requires a lot of thinking and judging. It is done best in post processing where you can make several samples and chose the best. There is nothing special or magic to the 2:3 aspect ratio of DSLR cameras. Many images look much better in square format or 4x5 or HD (16:9) or cinema scope (1:2.33) depending on the subject mater.

Remember you can always cut parts of an image but it is very difficult (even with Photoshop) to add parts that will look realistic.

Inexorable · 08-26-2012, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by JinDesu

A full or partial body shot should not crop any joints or the face.

I have seen head crops with half body shots being used by professional photographers... ?

The publicity still of a leading Bollywood actor below is an example.

Would this have been more effective without the head crop?

chicagojohn · 08-26-2012, 08:23 AM - **1 Like**

When to crop off the top off heads: (1) on a really bad hair day, (2) when the subjects are of the cone-head clan from Saturday Night Live, (3) when it improves the image to drop it down to below the subject's chins.

None of these criteria apply to the couple in question, and I would therefore agree with the majority that the entire head should be included.

Inexorable · 08-26-2012, 08:38 AM

In the photo below does the head crop of the mother work?

How about the softer focus on the mother to emphasize the child? Or, should I have used more DOF to keep both in focus.

Both the questions raced through my mind before I clicked. How would a professional have handled it?

What I do realize now is that as demp10 and others have emphasized, the original shot should have been without the cropping. This one was shot with the head cropped, but the above two questions remain relevant.

**dadipentak** · 08-26-2012, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Inexorable

In the photo below does the head crop of the mother work?

I'd say, Yes.

chicagojohn · 08-26-2012, 01:59 PM

What you have to deal with here is the fact that the direct eye contact of the mother determines the eye contact of the viewer.
The head crop isn't so much the issue as the softness which, IMO, creates somewhat of a contradiction with respect to who the subject is.

I actually would think this would work better with the mother in sharp focus with the child softer, and the reason, again is the direct eye contact of the mother.

Alternatively, if the child had direct contact with the viewer with the mother looking at her rather than at the camera, then the softness of the mother and the head crop would seem to me to work better.

My 2 cents

Inexorable · 08-26-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by chicagojohn

What you have to deal with here is the fact that the direct eye contact of the mother determines the eye contact of the viewer.
The head crop isn't so much the issue as the softness which, IMO, creates somewhat of a contradiction with respect to who the subject is.

I actually would think this would work better with the mother in sharp focus with the child softer, and the reason, again is the direct eye contact of the mother.

Alternatively, if the child had direct contact with the viewer with the mother looking at her rather than at the camera, then the softness of the mother and the head crop would seem to me to work better.

Wow! You nailed it. I knew I didn't achieve what I set out to achieve, but had no clue why.

Strong eye contact mandates sharp focus. I will remember the rule!

mikeSF · 08-26-2012, 07:47 PM

Yikes, definitely give that poor gentleman his forehead back.

Reminds me of the famous Blue Note jazz album cover portraits of the 1960's. The really good records always depicted the artist with a crop through the forehead...it must've been a trademark of the label, i dunno. I listened to all these records as a kid and later when I saw a few of the artists play in person, I was a little surprised to find they were all 3" taller than i expected... :P

**dadipentak** · 08-27-2012, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by mikeSF

I was a little surprised to find they were all 3" taller than i expected... :P

Nice set of sounds, too

asp1880 · 08-27-2012, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by mikeSF

Reminds me of the famous Blue Note jazz album cover portraits of the 1960's. The really good records always depicted the artist with a crop through the forehead...it must've been a trademark of the label, i dunno. I listened to all these records as a kid and later when I saw a few of the artists play in person, I was a little surprised to find they were all 3" taller than i expected... :P

His name is Wayne Shorter ...

NoMaD_PS · 08-27-2012, 07:22 AM

A photo has the plot, the line's harmony and the lights'n'shadows drawing. Everything else is optional: 'rule of thirds', tilted horizon line, cropped head, overexposing etc.

As for cropping I'm trying to use simple rule - every unnecessary things should be cut. You can even crop through the face or an eye if the remaining part worth it.

Concerning the OP photo: as for me the cropped head is not good idea. You're not limited in space, there's a lot of free space, hands and legs do nothing for the plot. Otherwise if the head is cropped, don't stop, go further. With your permission I've cropped the image further.

Also one from me heavily cropped.

08-26-2012, 08:12 AM	#21
Inexorable Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Noida, UP Posts: 145 Original Poster	Originally posted by JinDesu A full or partial body shot should not crop any joints or the face. I have seen head crops with half body shots being used by professional photographers... ? The publicity still of a leading Bollywood actor below is an example. Would this have been more effective without the head crop? Last edited by Inexorable; 08-26-2012 at 08:29 AM. Reason: Improving language

08-26-2012, 07:47 PM	#27
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,622	Yikes, definitely give that poor gentleman his forehead back. Reminds me of the famous Blue Note jazz album cover portraits of the 1960's. The really good records always depicted the artist with a crop through the forehead...it must've been a trademark of the label, i dunno. I listened to all these records as a kid and later when I saw a few of the artists play in person, I was a little surprised to find they were all 3" taller than i expected... :P Last edited by mikeSF; 08-26-2012 at 08:20 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
is that good idea to replace my kx with k10d???	liukaitc	Pentax DSLR Discussion	9	06-26-2011 06:11 AM
exposure for couples question	adwb	Photographic Technique	5	06-09-2011 02:45 AM
Is a filter ever a good idea?	mom2mny	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	17	05-14-2011 06:18 AM
Bringing the K-x along for a jog.. good idea?	hagiri_11	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	7	10-07-2010 06:42 PM
Rebuilding the Infrastructure - A Good Idea?	seacapt	General Talk	47	09-15-2010 07:56 AM

08-26-2012, 06:43 AM	#16
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Originally posted by tweet25 I just took a class where the teacher said 'everybody has a top to their head, you don't always have to show it". I agree that it doesn't work here, but she showed examples of when it worked well. did i take a bad class? when you say always, is that really always? or only in portrait style? thank you There are exceptions, obviously, and contexts to those exceptions. Every image has balance and an aesthetic to it. If you take a picture, where the focus of attention is drawn to the face/head, and you don't include the top of a head - as in the images above, you break the aesthetic -for a particular image. However, here is an example where not only is the top of the head not there, but most of the face isn't either. In the image above, the balance, and subject matter focuses the aesthetic toward the little girl's eyelashes. The light across her face. The light in her eyeglasses. The image has a focus and a relaxed dream-like quality. Again, no top of the head, no back of the head. The balance and aesthetic is purposeful. As a commercial image, you can just make out "Ray-Ban", and subtly advertise her glasses.

08-26-2012, 06:44 AM	#17
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by Inexorable trust me asking my daughter to pose again would be a near impossible task, I don't have that problem with my daughter--she loves the camera. It's my wife who's camera-shy.

08-26-2012, 06:48 AM - 1 Like	#18
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	If the subject of the picture is so clear that missing the top of the head won't matter, like in Dadipentak's post, then you can crop the top. This seems to particularly apply for pictures where the face makes up for the majority of the shot. A full or partial body shot should not crop any joints or the face.

08-26-2012, 08:00 AM	#19
Inexorable Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Noida, UP Posts: 145 Original Poster	Originally posted by Allison As mentioned, leaving yourself some room for cropping afterwards is always helpful. Taking off the top of the head can be used in an extreme close-up, but it doesn't work in a mid-range shot that includes the knees. I think I understand what you were going for with the space to the left. This works better with a more neutral background: Since the fireplace provides such a strong line, it is a little more important with that setting that it is either deliberately straight or deliberately slanted. Having it slightly off makes the picture feel slightly off. In the picture above it is more clear that the bricks are not straight on. Another option might have been to have them a little more away from the fire place and use a shallower depth of field to throw the fireplace softly out-of-focus. All of the suggestions aside, you did a nice job exposing the skin tones! Thanks for the valuable tips and the encouragement. I noticed the problem with the distortion in the fireplace line but had no clue how to handle it.

08-26-2012, 08:03 AM	#20
demp10 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta Photos: Albums Posts: 602	Originally posted by Inexorable The photo was shot with deliberate cropping and now I feel stupid about it. From your reply it appears pros crop in PP, not while taking the shot. Is that a correct assumption? When you take a picture your main focus should be overall composition, exposure, focus, general lighting, etc. but not necessarily final cropping. Just make sure you get everything in the frame that potentially you will use. Cropping is an art form of its own and requires a lot of thinking and judging. It is done best in post processing where you can make several samples and chose the best. There is nothing special or magic to the 2:3 aspect ratio of DSLR cameras. Many images look much better in square format or 4x5 or HD (16:9) or cinema scope (1:2.33) depending on the subject mater. Remember you can always cut parts of an image but it is very difficult (even with Photoshop) to add parts that will look realistic.

08-26-2012, 08:23 AM - 1 Like	#22
chicagojohn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 244	When to crop off the top off heads: (1) on a really bad hair day, (2) when the subjects are of the cone-head clan from Saturday Night Live, (3) when it improves the image to drop it down to below the subject's chins. None of these criteria apply to the couple in question, and I would therefore agree with the majority that the entire head should be included.

08-26-2012, 08:46 AM	#24
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by Inexorable In the photo below does the head crop of the mother work? I'd say, Yes.

08-26-2012, 01:59 PM	#25
chicagojohn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 244	What you have to deal with here is the fact that the direct eye contact of the mother determines the eye contact of the viewer. The head crop isn't so much the issue as the softness which, IMO, creates somewhat of a contradiction with respect to who the subject is. I actually would think this would work better with the mother in sharp focus with the child softer, and the reason, again is the direct eye contact of the mother. Alternatively, if the child had direct contact with the viewer with the mother looking at her rather than at the camera, then the softness of the mother and the head crop would seem to me to work better. My 2 cents

08-26-2012, 06:57 PM	#26
Inexorable Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Noida, UP Posts: 145 Original Poster	Originally posted by chicagojohn What you have to deal with here is the fact that the direct eye contact of the mother determines the eye contact of the viewer. The head crop isn't so much the issue as the softness which, IMO, creates somewhat of a contradiction with respect to who the subject is. I actually would think this would work better with the mother in sharp focus with the child softer, and the reason, again is the direct eye contact of the mother. Alternatively, if the child had direct contact with the viewer with the mother looking at her rather than at the camera, then the softness of the mother and the head crop would seem to me to work better. Wow! You nailed it. I knew I didn't achieve what I set out to achieve, but had no clue why. Strong eye contact mandates sharp focus. I will remember the rule!

08-27-2012, 05:07 AM	#28
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by mikeSF I was a little surprised to find they were all 3" taller than i expected... :P Nice set of sounds, too

08-27-2012, 06:02 AM	#29
asp1880 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lyngby, Copenhagen Photos: Albums Posts: 742	Originally posted by mikeSF Reminds me of the famous Blue Note jazz album cover portraits of the 1960's. The really good records always depicted the artist with a crop through the forehead...it must've been a trademark of the label, i dunno. I listened to all these records as a kid and later when I saw a few of the artists play in person, I was a little surprised to find they were all 3" taller than i expected... :P His name is Wayne Shorter ...

08-27-2012, 07:22 AM	#30
NoMaD_PS Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 226	A photo has the plot, the line's harmony and the lights'n'shadows drawing. Everything else is optional: 'rule of thirds', tilted horizon line, cropped head, overexposing etc. As for cropping I'm trying to use simple rule - every unnecessary things should be cut. You can even crop through the face or an eye if the remaining part worth it. Concerning the OP photo: as for me the cropped head is not good idea. You're not limited in space, there's a lot of free space, hands and legs do nothing for the plot. Otherwise if the head is cropped, don't stop, go further. With your permission I've cropped the image further. Also one from me heavily cropped.