People Is it a good idea to crop top of head when shooting couples?

Inexorable · 08-25-2012, 08:01 AM

The photo below is a photograph of a newly engaged couple. My attempt was to create a semi formal photo, a photo that I could hang on the wall.

I am wondering if close in crop in the photo was a good idea? My reservations is - the crop only affects one person.

Any advice on the cropping technique to be used when photographing couples, or any other tip to take better former couple shots would be most welcome. I am an amateur who has owned a Pentax SLR for over 15 years but never made a serious attempt to improve my photography.

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**dadipentak** · 08-25-2012, 08:08 AM

The answer is emphatically, no!. Why include knees but not complete heads? Also why include all that dead space on the left? Can you post the uncropped photo?

Brisboy · 08-25-2012, 08:16 AM

I agree. Heads in for portraits.

**LaurenOE** · 08-25-2012, 08:32 AM

Always include the top of heads. Photo-101.

Inexorable · 08-25-2012, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by dadipentak

The answer is emphatically, no!. Why include knees but not complete heads? Also why include all that dead space on the left? Can you post the uncropped photo?

The photo was shot with deliberate cropping and now I feel stupid about it. From your reply it appears pros crop in PP, not while taking the shot. Is that a correct assumption?

As to the wasted space, I was focusing on the framing that the fireplace behind provided.

Fortunately, I did take a more conventional shot, but I am sure that too has some flaws that I would like to learn about. Is the cropping on the sides here acceptable, or is that also a No! No!

I love this forum and deeply appreciate the time the gurus on this forum give to guys like me.

Tom S. · 08-25-2012, 09:00 AM - **1 Like**

Only if he had horns you were trying to hide.

Inexorable · 08-25-2012, 09:11 AM - **1 Like**

Gosh man! Why would I marry my daughter to someone with horns!! And now I am wondering if I will ever crop a head again, even when taking a solo portrait. Naah! If I have to do it, it will be in PP. :-)

**LaurenOE** · 08-25-2012, 09:18 AM - **1 Like**

My sense is that this shoot is over and "in the can", so there's not much to say about the background, Horizontal lines, the fireplace off center, the little twig to the left of the image or the tighter vertical crop in your second image. The flash(s) looks like you positioned at least one to the upper left of you (their right) and could have been placed in a more creative place(s).

As in your original goal "As to create a semi-formal portrait to hang on the wall", I'd say a T-shirt and unbuttoned collar, as well as down on one knee with a hand over her shoulder is not a very "semi-formal" pose. Semi-formal portraits, traditionally mimic what classical painters would choose when dealing with light and their subject's dress. If the couple was asking you for a semi-formal portait I would have asked "What are you going to wear, and where is the location?".

I'd say you created a casual, relaxed image that has some technical factors that might need some work and no amount of cropping will fix that.

As for a semi-formal? This would need a re-shoot.

**LaurenOE** · 08-25-2012, 09:19 AM

Oh...I just saw that this is your daughter. Family pictures. Sorry. I thought it was a paying client, etc. etc.

Inexorable · 08-25-2012, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

Oh...I just saw that this is your daughter. Family pictures. Sorry. I thought it was a paying client, etc. etc.

Thanks for the valuable inputs...trust me asking my daughter to pose again would be a near impossible task, so it's a canned shot all right! :-)

I am so excited with the process of learning... Thanks!

SpecialK · 08-25-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Always include the top of heads. Photo-101.

101A - there is never an "always" :-)

In this case, though, too much emphasis is on the background framing the subject, which made the subjects ill-composed.

**dadipentak** · 08-25-2012, 09:46 AM

I have to say you've got a lovely daughter--any photo with her in it has a head start. And it looks like your prospective son-in-law knows he's a lucky man.

About cropping: There are those who pretty much get the crop they want when they trigger the shutter but you have to be pretty good (paying attention to not cutting off vital body parts, for example) to do that consistently. I usually back off a bit just to give myself a bit of room for error (to which I'm prone because I'm no pro ;~)

Inexorable · 08-25-2012, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by dadipentak

I have to say you've got a lovely daughter--any photo with her in it has a head start. And it looks like your prospective son-in-law knows he's a lucky man.

About cropping: There are those who pretty much get the crop they want when they trigger the shutter but you have to be pretty good (paying attention to not cutting off vital body parts, for example) to do that consistently. I usually back off a bit just to give myself a bit of room for error (to which I'm prone because I'm no pro ;~)

Aw! Thanks!

Yes, the crop afterwards tip is the most valuable lesson that I have learnt.

Allison · 08-25-2012, 10:52 AM

As mentioned, leaving yourself some room for cropping afterwards is always helpful. Taking off the top of the head can be used in an extreme close-up, but it doesn't work in a mid-range shot that includes the knees.

I think I understand what you were going for with the space to the left. This works better with a more neutral background:

Since the fireplace provides such a strong line, it is a little more important with that setting that it is either deliberately straight or deliberately slanted. Having it slightly off makes the picture feel slightly off. In the picture above it is more clear that the bricks are not straight on. Another option might have been to have them a little more away from the fire place and use a shallower depth of field to throw the fireplace softly out-of-focus.

All of the suggestions aside, you did a nice job exposing the skin tones!

tweet25 · 08-25-2012, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

Always include the top of heads. Photo-101.

I just took a class where the teacher said 'everybody has a top to thier head, you don't always have to show it".
I agree that it doesn't work here, but she showed examples of when it worked well.
did i take a bad class? when you say always, is that really always? or only in portrait style?
thank you

08-25-2012, 09:46 AM	#12
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	I have to say you've got a lovely daughter--any photo with her in it has a head start. And it looks like your prospective son-in-law knows he's a lucky man. About cropping: There are those who pretty much get the crop they want when they trigger the shutter but you have to be pretty good (paying attention to not cutting off vital body parts, for example) to do that consistently. I usually back off a bit just to give myself a bit of room for error (to which I'm prone because I'm no pro ;~) Last edited by dadipentak; 08-25-2012 at 09:56 AM.

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08-25-2012, 08:08 AM	#2
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	The answer is emphatically, no!. Why include knees but not complete heads? Also why include all that dead space on the left? Can you post the uncropped photo?

08-25-2012, 08:16 AM	#3
Brisboy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Cairns, Qld Posts: 204	I agree. Heads in for portraits.

08-25-2012, 08:32 AM	#4
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Always include the top of heads. Photo-101.

08-25-2012, 09:00 AM - 1 Like	#6
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Only if he had horns you were trying to hide.

08-25-2012, 09:11 AM - 1 Like	#7
Inexorable Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Noida, UP Posts: 145 Original Poster	Gosh man! Why would I marry my daughter to someone with horns!! And now I am wondering if I will ever crop a head again, even when taking a solo portrait. Naah! If I have to do it, it will be in PP. :-)

08-25-2012, 09:18 AM - 1 Like	#8
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	My sense is that this shoot is over and "in the can", so there's not much to say about the background, Horizontal lines, the fireplace off center, the little twig to the left of the image or the tighter vertical crop in your second image. The flash(s) looks like you positioned at least one to the upper left of you (their right) and could have been placed in a more creative place(s). As in your original goal "As to create a semi-formal portrait to hang on the wall", I'd say a T-shirt and unbuttoned collar, as well as down on one knee with a hand over her shoulder is not a very "semi-formal" pose. Semi-formal portraits, traditionally mimic what classical painters would choose when dealing with light and their subject's dress. If the couple was asking you for a semi-formal portait I would have asked "What are you going to wear, and where is the location?". I'd say you created a casual, relaxed image that has some technical factors that might need some work and no amount of cropping will fix that. As for a semi-formal? This would need a re-shoot.

08-25-2012, 09:19 AM	#9
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Oh...I just saw that this is your daughter. Family pictures. Sorry. I thought it was a paying client, etc. etc.

08-25-2012, 09:29 AM	#10
Inexorable Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Noida, UP Posts: 145 Original Poster	Originally posted by LaurenOE Oh...I just saw that this is your daughter. Family pictures. Sorry. I thought it was a paying client, etc. etc. Thanks for the valuable inputs...trust me asking my daughter to pose again would be a near impossible task, so it's a canned shot all right! :-) I am so excited with the process of learning... Thanks!

08-25-2012, 09:44 AM	#11
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Quote: Always include the top of heads. Photo-101. 101A - there is never an "always" :-) In this case, though, too much emphasis is on the background framing the subject, which made the subjects ill-composed.

08-25-2012, 10:04 AM	#13
Inexorable Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Noida, UP Posts: 145 Original Poster	Originally posted by dadipentak I have to say you've got a lovely daughter--any photo with her in it has a head start. And it looks like your prospective son-in-law knows he's a lucky man. About cropping: There are those who pretty much get the crop they want when they trigger the shutter but you have to be pretty good (paying attention to not cutting off vital body parts, for example) to do that consistently. I usually back off a bit just to give myself a bit of room for error (to which I'm prone because I'm no pro ;~) Aw! Thanks! Yes, the crop afterwards tip is the most valuable lesson that I have learnt.

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08-25-2012, 10:52 AM	#14
Allison Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 667	As mentioned, leaving yourself some room for cropping afterwards is always helpful. Taking off the top of the head can be used in an extreme close-up, but it doesn't work in a mid-range shot that includes the knees. I think I understand what you were going for with the space to the left. This works better with a more neutral background: Since the fireplace provides such a strong line, it is a little more important with that setting that it is either deliberately straight or deliberately slanted. Having it slightly off makes the picture feel slightly off. In the picture above it is more clear that the bricks are not straight on. Another option might have been to have them a little more away from the fire place and use a shallower depth of field to throw the fireplace softly out-of-focus. All of the suggestions aside, you did a nice job exposing the skin tones!

08-25-2012, 09:36 PM	#15
tweet25 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Northen BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 236	Originally posted by LaurenOE Always include the top of heads. Photo-101. I just took a class where the teacher said 'everybody has a top to thier head, you don't always have to show it". I agree that it doesn't work here, but she showed examples of when it worked well. did i take a bad class? when you say always, is that really always? or only in portrait style? thank you