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12-31-2012, 02:06 AM   #1
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I don't get it...
Lens: DA 55-300 Camera: K-x Photo Location: home ISO: 100 Shutter Speed: 2s Aperture: F27 

Last night I went out to try some shots of the moon with my new DA 55-300. They turned out crappy, and I don't understand why. I took sharper photos of the moon before with my old Takumar 70-200 manual focus lens. I'm not sure what went wrong, and perhaps you might shed some light. I had my ISO set to the lowest possible (100), my aperture at almost minimum (between F18-29), my shutter speed between 1/4 to 2 seconds during experimentation, and none of my photos turned out sharp. Oh, and yes I did have my camera on a tripod, and there was no wind (maybe a small breeze). I used Auto Focus, and manual focus point selection. I have attached the sharpest one of the batch that I took last night.


Last edited by slr_neophyte; 07-21-2013 at 12:12 PM.
12-31-2012, 02:42 AM   #2
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Did you have the SR off??? On a tripod, the SR can work against you. With your old lens, not having lens info contacts the camera probably disabled the SR due to not knowing the focal length, with your new lens, camera knows what FL, so SR on, then on a tripod, moves the sensor a little to blur the image.
12-31-2012, 02:44 AM   #3
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Hang on, just saw your shutter speed..... roation of the earth, and then speed of the moons orbit, 2 seconds, the moon is moving very quickly across the sky, enough to blurr, add that to the SR, most likely.
12-31-2012, 03:39 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by cmohr Quote
Hang on, just saw your shutter speed..... roation of the earth, and then speed of the moons orbit, 2 seconds, the moon is moving very quickly across the sky, enough to blurr, add that to the SR, most likely.
Thanks. The rotation speed makes sense, however, the SR was disabled due to my using a remote control.

12-31-2012, 04:21 AM   #5
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Definitely long exposure - with this focal lenght is every stellar obejct fast moving if you are not usin parallacticmout :-) I often use my DA*300 to take a shot of the moon from tripod. Best way to do it is also to use mirror-lock up to prevent vibrations. For moon in this phase it's ISO 100 enough (+ f4.0 and time 1/400 to 1/600 - you can use slower appertura and times around 1/200 or so). It's also possible to take a shot hand-held but most of the shots will be blurry - at least with my heavy 300 :-D
12-31-2012, 04:45 AM - 3 Likes   #6
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Perhaps poor air between you and the subject?

Especially air turbulence. The air between the subject and the lens is as much a part of the optical system as the lens itself.
After all you live in one of the largest most congested industrialized areas in the world.

The best you can do about it is shoot when the moon is at it's zenith.

Taken through good air...

Last edited by wildman; 02-11-2013 at 03:55 AM.
12-31-2012, 05:02 AM   #7
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Great shot Seeing is also important factor. I presume that your picture is taken with astronomical telescope - 900mm focal lenght at least? Superb details by the way
This one is taken with 300 and it is cropped of course http://img8.rajce.idnes.cz/d0801/5/5230/5230916_f95c7cdf48f4450fd3d04b7d7f35...9_PS_kopie.jpg

This was taken with same lens during few bright nights in june and july (SELČ is czech abbr for CEST = UTC +2):



Last edited by Slavek; 01-26-2013 at 05:50 AM.
12-31-2012, 05:48 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Slavek Quote
I presume that your picture is taken with astronomical telescope
1000mm F/8 APO triplet at prime focus cropped.

Last edited by wildman; 12-31-2012 at 02:58 PM.
12-31-2012, 08:16 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote

Taken through good air...
Holy Guacamole! What lens did you use? I couldn't tell via the EXIF data.

Oops. Never mind.
12-31-2012, 10:06 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by slr_neophyte Quote
Last night I went out to try some shots of the moon with my new DA 55-300. They turned out crappy, and I don't understand why. I took sharper photos of the moon before with my old Takumar 70-200 manual focus lens. I'm not sure what went wrong, and perhaps you might shed some light. I had my ISO set to the lowest possible (100), my aperture at almost minimum (between F18-29), my shutter speed between 1/4 to 2 seconds during experimentation, and none of my photos turned out sharp. Oh, and yes I did have my camera on a tripod, and there was no wind (maybe a small breeze). I used Auto Focus, and manual focus point selection. I have attached the sharpest one of the batch that I took last night.
You used ISO 100, f27, 2 seconds. Try ISO 400, f8. Experiment with shutter speed around 1/5 second and adjust from there. Why?
  1. 2 seconds lets air turbulence blur details. Deep sky photos can get away with slow shutter speeds, but for the moon you want to maximize crisp detail.
  2. f27 is small enough to cause diffraction, further removing details. The 55-300 sweet spot is probably around f8. In addition to a better image you'll get the helpful side effect of faster shutter.
  3. A higher ISO speeds up the shutter. I think you'll gain more detail from the faster shutter than you lose in noise. Experiment with ISO 200 and 800, too.
12-31-2012, 12:10 PM   #11
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Pretty much covered in the thread, so let me just list it:
-could be a bad atmosphere - stuff between you and the moon can affect IQ a lot, as can ambient light. Only thing you can do is drive away from a city, someplace with clean air.
-filters: a bad filter can really affect sharpness and contrast
-shutter: way too long, at 4 seconds the moon is zooming past you. Try a fraction of a second for the moon. For the moon you can go to 1/180 if the tripod is sturdy and you probably won't need an exposure longer than that
-Aperture: The moon is lit by the sun, so its actually pretty bright. Use the aperture that your lens is best at. Usually this is between f5 and f11, but it depends on the lens. You are focusing at infinity anyway, so DoF probably won't matter. For your lens f8 is probably the sweet spot.
-ISO: 100 or 200, but don't be afraid to go higher if needed. For the moon, you probably won't need to go higher, though.
-Use a tripod and 2 second timer (the remote was a good idea, use that)
-Use Manual settings (f8, iso100, 1/180) or spot metering in Av mode.
-If you have filters, you probably won't need them. If you have a lens hood, put it on, it can't hurt.
-300mm is good, but we are used to seeing wonderful closeups like the one Wildman posted, so it might seem underwhelming by comparison. Don't let that discourage you. You can only get that good by doing it

The reason we can give you detailed tips is because the moon is pretty constantly lit by the sun, pretty much where ever you are.
12-31-2012, 12:27 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by slr_neophyte Quote
Last night I went out to try some shots of the moon with my new DA 55-300. They turned out crappy, and I don't understand why. I took sharper photos of the moon before with my old Takumar 70-200 manual focus lens. I'm not sure what went wrong, and perhaps you might shed some light. I had my ISO set to the lowest possible (100), my aperture at almost minimum (between F18-29), my shutter speed between 1/4 to 2 seconds during experimentation, and none of my photos turned out sharp. Oh, and yes I did have my camera on a tripod, and there was no wind (maybe a small breeze). I used Auto Focus, and manual focus point selection. I have attached the sharpest one of the batch that I took last night.
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
You used ISO 100, f27, 2 seconds. Try ISO 400, f8. Experiment with shutter speed around 1/5 second and adjust from there. Why?
  1. 2 seconds lets air turbulence blur details. Deep sky photos can get away with slow shutter speeds, but for the moon you want to maximize crisp detail.
  2. f27 is small enough to cause diffraction, further removing details. The 55-300 sweet spot is probably around f8. In addition to a better image you'll get the helpful side effect of faster shutter.
  3. A higher ISO speeds up the shutter. I think you'll gain more detail from the faster shutter than you lose in noise. Experiment with ISO 200 and 800, too.
I would suggest a few additional changes.
  • With a tripod (with SR off), yes use at least ISO 400 for the best image quality balanced against the available light, against the captured noise.
  • f8, for the sweet spot of the lens, however I might also bumping the ISO up to 800 for a bit more light, with this aperture. You may need to possibly get some more light by opening up the aperture, you might just need to open it up all the way. It also depends on the phase of the moon. With a full moon, there is a LOT of light to work with.
  • Manual focusing - No need for AF. Set it to infinity, possibly use LiveView to make some small adjustments (I can't remember if the Kx has it).
  • The other thing that I would do is to switch to spot metering. The only object you are going to take a picture of is the moon, and you want to meter off of that. The rest of the frame is just dark sky, so why would you want to average that blackness in. For me, this was the setting that brought everything together.
  • I would then let the camera come up with the shutter speed. If its too slow that you are blurring the Moon, then start to adjust the ISO higher and the aperture to speed up the shutter.
I'v done this with my K100 and K20, but I don't remember trying my K5. As I remember, I was able to get some pretty decent shots with the 55-300. A couple of weeks ago I ran across a M* 300/4 that I opened up the check book for. I need to try that on the moon - maybe tonight.

12-31-2012, 12:29 PM   #13
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Yea, anything slower than about 1/125 and the moon will start blurring due to its own motion. I've tried snapping the moon a few times here in town, and I definitely can see the difference between now and when I lived out in the sticks.

When I first started using my K-x after upgrading from a point and shoot, I was lucky enough to have actually known the settings from when I had my A470.

After I hacked the PowerShot, I was able to shoot this:

ISO 10* (yes, 10..), 1/125 second, f/5.9, 11.6mm

* - I'm not sure what the CHDK ISO10 equates to - I'm fairly certain its not true 10, but its fun to say I did it anyhow.




Which led me to be able to shoot this:

ISO 800, 800mm*, f/16, 1/125 sec

* - this means I was shooting with a really, REALLY crappy lens, one of my Quantaray tubes, either 400mm or 500mm with a 2X teleconverter on it.

12-31-2012, 07:22 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by slr_neophyte Quote
my aperture at almost minimum (between F18-29)
Why close your aperture so much? Anywhere past f11 or so you start running into diffraction which impedes sharpness. And, with that small aperture, your exposure is longer which makes you vulnerable to subject motion.

The moon is far enough away that depth of field is not something you need to stop down for. One or two clicks down from wide open will give you excellent sharpness on most lenses, while reducing exposure time.
01-01-2013, 03:15 AM   #15
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I was about to ask the same question. My attempts at moon shots have been terrible. Now I have some ideas to experiment with. Thanks
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