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03-08-2013, 10:04 AM   #1
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Before and After

Here are two photos. The first one was submitted to the PEG with lots of negative comments. I will not list the non-constructive comments but I have attempted to redo the PP on the photo using some of the comments made by the judges which included: the image is flat, no depth to the mountain - needs more vibrance and a little more contrast near the top of the larger mountain - boost contrast or burn in some shadows on the main mountain. Many of the judges found the subject uninteresting, one thought there should be a lake and snowstorm included since the title suggested it (it was titled Snowy Mountain), I can't do much about those comments except to change the title but to what I don't know. One judge said the image would be much better here than in the PEG. So, here it is. Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciate it. I will not resubmit it but would like a better image without losing the scene as it appeared to me at the time. As you can see, my pp skills are lacking; I usually don't do much except sharpen a bit but this time I did try to lighten the mountain in the foreground and add more contrast to the one in back.
Thanks for any help you can give me.


Last edited by slowpez; 03-26-2013 at 07:58 AM.
03-08-2013, 10:31 AM   #2
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Image is not bad, especially after you have added the small changes to it, however, overall, the image is still a little bit too dark - especially your left side foreground. That ruins your overall effect.

I really like the top of the mountains - especially the snow that is getting blown by the wind. Maybe you should of focused more on that part ... a tighter crop - or a wider view if the mountains extend more on the horizontal? That should of been your central subject and build your composition around it by removing unnecessary elements.
Maybe even a portrait framing would of helped removing the darker parts!?

I would suggest better planning on framing your shot - exercise the rules of composition until they become second nature (rule of thirds, balance, leading lines, viewpoint, background and foreground, depth, symmetry, etc... ).
03-08-2013, 12:24 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I rather like it, the blowing snow is awesome! If you have a raw file you might enjoy a black and white conversion and just some old fashioned dodging and burning.
03-08-2013, 12:35 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Image is not bad, especially after you have added the small changes to it, however, overall, the image is still a little bit too dark - especially your left side foreground. That ruins your overall effect.

I really like the top of the mountains - especially the snow that is getting blown by the wind. Maybe you should of focused more on that part ... a tighter crop - or a wider view if the mountains extend more on the horizontal? That should of been your central subject and build your composition around it by removing unnecessary elements.
Maybe even a portrait framing would of helped removing the darker parts!?

I would suggest better planning on framing your shot - exercise the rules of composition until they become second nature (rule of thirds, balance, leading lines, viewpoint, background and foreground, depth, symmetry, etc... ).
QuoteOriginally posted by jaytee Quote
I rather like it, the blowing snow is awesome! If you have a raw file you might enjoy a black and white conversion and just some old fashioned dodging and burning.
Thank you both for you helpful suggestions. I appreciate it and will play with the shot some more.

03-08-2013, 04:31 PM   #5
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I like your 2nd attempt. And please don't lighten up the rock in the foreground. It provides some needed contrast.
03-09-2013, 08:56 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
I like your 2nd attempt. And please don't lighten up the rock in the foreground. It provides some needed contrast.
I lightened it because most of the judge complained about it being too dark and not having any detail. I could see lots of detail when I enlarged it to full size but guess I must not have been looking for the detail they wanted.
As an aside, purple fringing was noted on the foreground mountain and I had to enlarge it to 400% to find it. Is this usual to look at an image that large for things like that or is the fringing visible to everyone but me? I will admit that my eyesight is not what it was.
Again, thanks for taking the time to help me out with this one. I appreciate it.
03-09-2013, 09:53 AM   #7
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At this size I see no fringing... . I do see a little bit of purple shade in the original image ... but I think that is more purple cast rather than fringing ...
You will always see problems in any kind of image once you start pixel piping (even on those already in PEG).

If you do lighten the foreground, I wouldn't do it too much. As other said, you do need that contrast ... my comments were merely on composition.
Don't get too down about it though, your image is very good just the way it is anyway. And improving it for the liking of PEG judges will be an impossible task, unless you re-take it.


Last edited by mrNewt; 03-09-2013 at 01:46 PM.
03-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
At this size I see no fringing... . I do see a little bit of purple shade in the original image ... but I think that is more purple cast rather than fringing ...
You will always see problems in any kind of image once you start pixel piping (even on those already in PPG).

If you do lighten the foreground, I wouldn't do it too much. As other said, you do need that contrast ... my comments were merely on composition.
Don't get too down about it though, your image is very good just the way it is anyway. And improving it for the liking of PPG judges will be an impossible task, unless you re-take it.
Thanks for your input. The first photo is already in the PPG and received some good comments so I had submitted it to the PEG (Pentax Exclusive Gallery) and it is the PEG that made the comments.
I did lighten the foreground just a bit in the second image - is it enough or too much?
03-09-2013, 01:49 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by slowpez Quote
Thanks for your input. The first photo is already in the PPG and received some good comments so I had submitted it to the PEG (Pentax Exclusive Gallery) and it is the PEG that made the comments.
I did lighten the foreground just a bit in the second image - is it enough or too much?
I always confuse the two of them ... yes I was referring to PEG.

Image is as perfect as it can be based on its framing/composition and subject. You can always improve on something but that usually means re-taking the image. And sometimes that is quite impossible and you have to be happy with what you have already.
Is just a matter of people liking it or not ... and I do .

Don't worry too much about the fact that it didn't got into PEG .
03-09-2013, 02:23 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
I always confuse the two of them ... yes I was referring to PEG.

Image is as perfect as it can be based on its framing/composition and subject. You can always improve on something but that usually means re-taking the image. And sometimes that is quite impossible and you have to be happy with what you have already.
Is just a matter of people liking it or not ... and I do .

Don't worry too much about the fact that it didn't got into PEG .
Thanks mrNewt. Wish I could retake this one but the chances of going back are slim and the chances of the wind whipping up the snow on top of that mountain are slimmer still. I will take your kindly given advice and be happy with it as it is. Thanks again.
03-09-2013, 04:09 PM   #11
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The edited photo looks good, however there are a few things to correct:

The snow blowing at the top of the mountain looks as if it is clipped to white. This removes some of the detail that is there in the original. It's hard to say whether or not that is the case in the raw file but it's something to consider when saving to JPEG next time.

The composition feels unbalanced to me; there's more weight on the left than the right. I don't know what you could do about that.

Either way, it's a dramatic image. I think it's good, but not great.
03-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #12
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Coming from a locale with a minimum nine months of snow in all it's variations I can say that you have conveyed a 'feeling' in the scene that is extremely difficult to capture. You've made an excellent effort here. Don't concern yourself too much with the critique's - just enjoy the memory. I assure that this shot evoked my memories of such scenes
John
03-10-2013, 08:32 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by tackyat.2 Quote
The edited photo looks good, however there are a few things to correct:

The snow blowing at the top of the mountain looks as if it is clipped to white. This removes some of the detail that is there in the original. It's hard to say whether or not that is the case in the raw file but it's something to consider when saving to JPEG next time.

The composition feels unbalanced to me; there's more weight on the left than the right. I don't know what you could do about that.

Either way, it's a dramatic image. I think it's good, but not great.
Thanks for the helpful comments. The whites are clipped but the sun was behind the mountain and the detail was lost at the time of the shot. I tried several crops to lessen the weight on the left but just didn't like the outcome. I do have another shot that I took from a little different spot and the foreground rock on the left is barely there but the clouds had come in and there was no detail on the main mountain. The whites are still clipped in that one too.

QuoteOriginally posted by jac Quote
Coming from a locale with a minimum nine months of snow in all it's variations I can say that you have conveyed a 'feeling' in the scene that is extremely difficult to capture. You've made an excellent effort here. Don't concern yourself too much with the critique's - just enjoy the memory. I assure that this shot evoked my memories of such scenes
John
Thank you John. Being from the south we rarely see snow and it is a treat to see a bit of it when we travel. Emphasis on "a bit".
03-12-2013, 06:42 AM   #14
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I enjoyed playing with this one - just wish I had a RAW file.

Made no attempt to preserve a literal technical accuracy - what the hell if St. Ansel can get away with it why not me?

The big thing that jumped out was the two distinct planes between the foreground and distant mountain.
I sharpened up the left foreground and brought the shadows out to emphasize the distance between the nearby hills and the distant mountain. Got some fringing but what hell.
Otherwise took liberties with it just to see what would happen - hope you don't mind too much.

Anyway just an old man snowed in under 12 inches of snow with too much time on his hands.

Last edited by wildman; 04-02-2013 at 11:34 AM.
03-12-2013, 07:01 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
I enjoyed playing with this one - just wish I had a RAW file.

Made no attempt to preserve a literal technical accuracy - what the hell if St. Ansel can get away with it why not me?

The big thing that jumped out was the two distinct planes between the foreground and distant mountain.
I sharpened up the left foreground and brought the shadows out to emphasize the distance between the nearby hills and the distant mountain. Got some fringing but what hell.
Otherwise took liberties with it just to see what would happen - hope you don't mind too much.

Anyway just an old man snowed in under 12 inches of snow with too much time on his hands.
Thanks for working on this one wildman. I appreciate your taking the time. I guess I have to start working on my PP skills.
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