[russell2pi]

OK... I'm not really after a full critique here. I am mostly interested in the feelings and thought provoked concerning the subject matter-- input on that aspect would be most welcome, particularly from Australians or those who understand the historical backdrop here. Particularly if you can try to imagine how you would feel about it if you didn't have a background in photography.

I have decided to enter this in a local art competition... baby steps. My issue is that I feel the image appears to suggest a value judgement (or even perhaps tries to provoke a particular response), whereas my intention was to make a picture of this subject that invited the viewer to contemplate the terrain of the subject matter for him or herself. I could elaborate but I will shut up for now.

Attached Images

 

[IanS]

As an Aussie I know what this means to me but before I comment I would be interested in hearing what pentaxians from other parts of the world think it means to us and them.
Ian

[bucfan1234]

Alright, as a non Australian, I will give this a go.

I know that the Southern Cross is featured in the field of the Australia flag, and I see it in your image. I gather that holds some symbolism and national meaning.

If one goes further into this and the moral virtues associated with it - and combined the title, "under the southern cross" - then I suppose the image could take on a religious context for some. If that is the case, it could be seen to supplant "king and country" with something closer to what we Americans often see when it comes to personal allegiances, "God, family, country" etc. sans royalty. Edit: Of course, if the title were reversed and considiering the focus on the foreground, then I suppose some could see the opposite religious interpretation as the meaning, something almost nationalistic, King and Country before those other things, etc.

I am not familiar with the monument in the foreground, and its significance could greatly alter the meaning and effect of this piece to those who are familiar with it. Potential religious interpretations aside, and at face value, it all looks rather patriotic to me, but I suspect there is more to the puzzle than face value.

The image itself is very nice. I like the flare. If there was one thing I might say is that the cropping at the bottom seems a little abrupt. Thanks for posting it.

Even though, as an American, I am probably nowhere close to the Australian interpretation and reaction of and to this image, I enjoyed the thought provoking exercise.

[russell2pi]

Thanks for the comments.

It is a local small-town Great War monument. The Battle of Gallipoli fought by the ANZACs (Australia and New Zealand Army Corps) has been mythologised as a kind of national rite of passage here. Occurring only 14 years after the Federation of Australia as a nation state, it is often pointed to as something of a coming of age. And so everything about it attracts a kind of quasi-religious observance as bucfan correctly surmised.

Personally it has always puzzled me as to why we should find a coming of age in a bloody failed invasion of a soverign state, entered into at the command of our formal colonial master.

By including the southern cross - the symbol of the Eureka Rebellion, the only rebellion in Australian history and also the only aspect of our flag which defines it from the British flag - and the text "For King and Country", I'd hoped that anyone else who shared such thoughts as mine might quietly be drawn into reflecting upon those thoughts, without upsetting anyone unbothered by such troubles, and without drawing into question the depth of sacrifice of those men whose names appear below this text.

But then, I took a few images before it occurred to me to shade the camera from flare from a streetlight. And I have to say I find the flare irresistibly dramatic, visually. But if it leads the viewer to see the image as an unquestioning glorification, maybe I should steer clear. (Even though it may appeal to the judges more.) Or at the least perhaps I should whitebalance to make the flare white to green.

[IanS]

Thanks for the comments.

It is a local small-town Great War monument. The Battle of Gallipoli fought by the ANZACs (Australia and New Zealand Army Corps) has been mythologised as a kind of national rite of passage here. Occurring only 14 years after the Federation of Australia as a nation state, it is often pointed to as something of a coming of age. And so everything about it attracts a kind of quasi-religious observance as bucfan correctly surmised.

Personally it has always puzzled me as to why we should find a coming of age in a bloody failed invasion of a soverign state, entered into at the command of our formal colonial master.

By including the southern cross - the symbol of the Eureka Rebellion, the only rebellion in Australian history and also the only aspect of our flag which defines it from the British flag - and the text "For King and Country", I'd hoped that anyone else who shared such thoughts as mine might quietly be drawn into reflecting upon those thoughts, without upsetting anyone unbothered by such troubles, and without drawing into question the depth of sacrifice of those men whose names appear below this text.

But then, I took a few images before it occurred to me to shade the camera from flare from a streetlight. And I have to say I find the flare irresistibly dramatic, visually. But if it leads the viewer to see the image as an unquestioning glorification, maybe I should steer clear. (Even though it may appeal to the judges more.) Or at the least perhaps I should whitebalance to make the flare white to green.

You summed it up very well, my thoughts were definately along the same lines, as soon as I saw the crest and "for King and Country" I thought of those that didn't come back and the effect on those who did, not only from the Great War but all conflicts.

Cheers Ian

[southlander]

Aussie member here. I reflect on the losses Australian experienced in WW1 which were huge for our then small population, all for the 'old country' in an essentially European conflict (as alluded to by the For King and Country inscription), which conspiciously sacrificed many men for no useful military gain. I don't see your image suggesting glorification of war in any sense. I've recently started a blog, and my first three proper posts have been about the Australian War Memorial, which has made me pause and think about the two Great Wars in particular: http://photomorsels.wordpress.com/home/ The Memorial does a very balanced job of presenting our military history, IMO.

From a photographic viewpoint, I think the image's cutoff just below the inscription a little harsh and unbalances the composition. But I also appreciate that what was below the inscription may not have added usefully to the image. So you may be between a rock and a hard place in choosing what to do. The lens flare does add a unique effect to the sky.

[GordonZA]

From a South Africans perspective, this image for me is not necessarily only about WWI but also about Australias involvement in Anglo Boer War in South Africa.

Australians may find it interesting that several significant events took place during the 1899-1902 war:
1. At the start of the war Australia as a commonwealth did not exist.
2. The colonies of Queensland, Victoria and NSW as well as Tasmania were asked by Britian to send troops.
3. Queen Victoria was still on the throne.
4. Queenland and NSW troops took part in the relief of Kimberely in 1900 which was surrounded by Boer troops (Queensland Mounted Infantry and the NSW Lancers).
5. In 1901 Britian had defeated the majority of the Boer armies and was now involved in the worlds first fast moving guerilla war.
6. Also in 1901 Queen Victoria died and was replaced by Edward VII (hence my association with King and country in the photo).
7. In the same year Australia became the Commonwealth of Australia and opted to raise more troops to send to the conflict.
8. That made the Boer War the very first conflict in which the Commonwealth of Australia took part.
9. For me the southern Cross also symbolises the southern hemisphere as a whole though it best known for being included on the Australian and New Zealand flags.
10. Huge sacrifices were made by Australian troops and many thousands died, both from battle and disease!

Apart from the more obvious association with the Gallipoli slaughter fields (and later the trenches in France) that most Australians would think of from this image, for me there is far more to the image!

Just adding another perspective...

Thanks for sharing it with us!

[p38arover]

For non-Aussies, it might help to know the rising sun symbol above the text was the old insignia of the Australian army (the current badge is very similar) - the AIF, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(badge)

The monument is to the soldiers who served.

[southlander]

From a South Africans perspective, this image for me is not necessarily only about WWI but also about Australias involvement in Anglo Boer War in South Africa.

There is a well known Australian film called Breaker Morant made circa 1980 when the Australian film industry was on something of a roll with quality releases. It told the story of an Australian in the Boer War who was ultimately court-marshalled and executed. The circumstances of the case are still somewhat controversial. It was filmed here in South Australia (the other SA!)

[GordonZA]

I remember the film... Pretty unfair what happened to him!!!

[russell2pi]

Well I entered it and it won the local content category.

Now I'm feeling guilty I may have led flag-waving cheerers into assuming my message was straightforward glorification. Do I secretly offend them by augmenting that line of of thought with other conflicting interpretations? Hopefully not. From what I understand of Australian history, the further one goes back in age or history, the more equivocal the position becomes with regard to our involvement in the Great War (notwithstanding respects paid for the sacrifices of those who served). I've not met the judge but the organisers of the show are all retirees. Hopefully they get it!

[bdery]

I really like the composition, you did well to bring the stars and the granite together.

I feel that the cropping is too tight at the bottom, it seems like a part of the writing is cut out. Also, the light flare at the bottom is distracting, maybe a hood would have controlled it better (without removing it all, since I think you wanted it there).

[russell2pi]

The writing continued on with other stuff contrary to my purpose. (Actually, I thought about photoshopping in a question mark at the end....)

The flare - well actually it was a fluke. I didn't consider it until after this exposure. I took a few after it while shading the front element but I do think you're right - partial shading might have given the effect more subtly and with less noise. I did revisit the scene 4 times but only the other three were in daylight. This one I shon an LED light on the monument - hence the blue colour on the top.

[altopiet]

I remember the film... Pretty unfair what happened to him!!!

Not many people know much about our war, but this also seems pretty unfair... "No war is ever fought without loss of life, but the greatest tragedy of the Second Boer War (1900-1902) was the internment of women and children in concentration camps, which led to massive loss of life. Approximately 25 percent of the interned died, including 50 percent (or half) of the children. In addition, 30,000 farmhouses and 21 villages were destroyed. Among the burgers (or Boers) 3,990 were killed and 1,081 died of disease or accidents in the veld. If these figures are measured against the total number of Boers, and as the entire Boer population in both republics was just over 200,000, the mortality rate meant that nearly 15 percent of the entire Boer population was wiped out!. That is why it is safe to declare that the death rate was indeed of 'genocidal proportions'" THE BOER WAR - the first Holocaust of the 20th century

My great grand-father and his family, including my grand-father (born 1898) was in a concentration camp, where a sister of my grandfather died at the age of one year 11 months...

Unfortunately, these kind of shots of war memorials and monuments, will always evoke different emotions and reactions in people... for some it will be the glorification of winning a war and remembering their fallen, but there will always be someone with a different perspective, who was on the other side....

About the photo as such, you've achieved your objective to get people to think about the image, and what it represents, although it might evoke different feelings in different people. As I don't know the location, I can only say that if was possible, I would've liked to see a bit more of the bottom of the monument

[GordonZA]

Well I entered it and it won the local content category.

Now I'm feeling guilty I may have led flag-waving cheerers into assuming my message was straightforward glorification. Do I secretly offend them by augmenting that line of of thought with other conflicting interpretations? Hopefully not. From what I understand of Australian history, the further one goes back in age or history, the more equivocal the position becomes with regard to our involvement in the Great War (notwithstanding respects paid for the sacrifices of those who served). I've not met the judge but the organisers of the show are all retirees. Hopefully they get it!

Well done on winning!!