Cityscape I officially can't do HDR

wullemaha · 02-04-2014, 08:11 AM

Hello friends,

so, today I tried to do some HDR for the first time and failed horribly.
I don't know whether just my capturing was done wrong or if I fail at postprocessing, but I am not satisfied at all.
The light parts are too light, there's too much noise, and the colors don't look very natural to me.

Here two of the pictures I tried to create:

ZIP with RAW Files number 1

ZIP with RAW Files number 2

Can you tell me what went wrong?
If it is my not-existing postprocessing skills (I used Luminance, for the first time as well), then please give me some guidance :-)
The RAW Files are in public dropbox links beneath the pictures.

If it is the shooting itself, please let me know what to do better next time.

Thanks in advance for anybody offering some advice!

BR René

jfuqua11 · 02-04-2014, 09:56 AM

What are you using to merge the photos? What I do is take 5 photos -+ 2ev and use the automate HDR merge in photoshop. but for the most part photoshop doesn't do a very good job. here is a good starting point given from Scott Kelby " Radius 176; Strength 0.47; Gamma 0.76; Exposure 0.30; Detail 300%; Shadow 100%; Highlight -100%; Vibrance 22%; Saturation 26% That will get you the heavy HDR look that you see in many photos online. But I like a little more realistic look so sometimes I go Radius 51; Strength 0.61; Gamma 1.27; Exposure 0; Detail 170%; Shadow -65%; Highlight -38%; Vibrance 20%; Saturation -20%

Na Horuk · 02-04-2014, 10:06 AM

For a shot like that I would suggest you simply switch your camera to Scene mode and then Night HDR. True, this will make a jpeg, but I usually like its results more than if I take three raw files, then process them and waste a bunch of time and HD space.
The problem with HDR is that you need to tonemap the resulting tiff. And that's the hard part!

jfuqua11 · 02-04-2014, 10:25 AM

Here is the first set but the second set you need one more photo of even darker because even in your most dark of photos the highlights are blown out.

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

j2photos · 02-04-2014, 10:27 AM

Have you tried a piece of HDR software like Photomatix or Luminance HDR? Then set your camera to bracket.

nosliwmit · 02-04-2014, 10:58 AM

It's not really the type of scene that lends itself to HDR. You can't very well lighten the sky and darken the lights in this image. In this case you want dark darks and light lights...

wildman · 02-04-2014, 11:53 AM

Something more like this?

This is from your RAW set #1 and 2
This is a straight HDR merge with no toning nor additional PP.
BTW I checked exposure values of the three frames and they appeared to be more or less spot on - nothing wrong with your on site technique or camera.

The water will appear smoother than you remember because the final image is the result of three seperate time exposures of moving water.

Last edited by wildman; 02-17-2014 at 02:19 AM.

**skid2964** · 02-04-2014, 12:25 PM

I tired several HDR merge solutions and found most modified the look of the final image way too much.

I finally found "LR/Enfuse" which leaves a very natural looking HDR image.
This is important to me since I use a 3 shot bracket for most of my interior real estate shots.

here is the link: (It is for Lightroom, but if you have Lightroom, this works great!)
LR/Enfuse - Blend Multiple Exposures Together in Adobe Lightroom

Gregory_51 · 02-04-2014, 01:39 PM

This is the kind of scene HDR is used for. The sensor can't capture the range of tones in one shot so you bracket a series of shots. Looking at the EXIF data I'm not sure what you were doing. For starters 4 shots is odd. It's usually one under, middle and one over or two shots under, one middle and two over. The ISO looks to be changing as you shot like you were in auto ISO and the camera was trying to compensate, it's 100 for a couple of shots and then 400 and then 800. The highlights on the bridge are blown in all the shots and too far over to recover them all. The shot mode should be aperture priority, the aperture has to remain constant. Set the focus to manual so it won't change between shots. Shoot in RAW mode. Set the ISO to a single value that's suitable for the situation. Set the shot mode to bracket, preferably a 5 shot bracket to get the widest range of data. Check out YouTube, type in "shooting HDR" and there are lots of tutorials on how to shoot. You can also search for processing HDR and learn how to process them. There are plugins like Photomatix or NIK HDR 2 that will combine the images, remove ghosting and tonemap pretty much automatically but you can adjust them. You can put them in PS or PSE and work on them manually. Of course you can do HDR in camera but it will be a jpeg and you lose the control you have doing it on the computer. I noodled around and processed the shots. The first is a screen capture you posted, the middle one is manual adjustments is PSE and the far one is Photomatix.
I posted it here.
alternate edits on right of photo by wullemaha | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Cheers
Greg

FrankC · 02-04-2014, 01:44 PM

Agree with others that this night scene isn't a good candidate for HDR. If you were in the city and trying to get detail in the shadows between the buildings and in the lit portions, then that would be a perfect opportunity to utilize the capabilities that HDR affords.
The problem with Photomatix is that it can be very aggressive resulting in over-cooked images. Nik's HDR software is designed to be much more conservative and can't produce similar images. I do use both depending on the effect that I'm looking to produce.

wullemaha · 02-04-2014, 05:34 PM

Hi there,

thanks a lot for the input so far! I was not expecting so much help so fast, and it seems you have been waiting at home with Photoshop opened ready to load my RAW files.
AWESOME!

I will definitely try to incorporate your feedback into my next trials.

Fun fact: even though I personally think those shots are mediocre at best, they got the highest "score" I ever had on 500px.com.
People there are sometimes weird, I think I should only upload HDR and cat pictures, that seems to guarantee some likes

So anyway, here a short answer to some of your posts:

Originally posted by jfuqua11:

What are you using to merge the photos? ...

I used Luminance HDR, but I used it for the first time.
I did go with +-2 or +-3 ev, but you are right, I think I should go even darker with the dark stuff the next time, as some highlights are blown out...

Originally posted by Na Horuk:

For a shot like that I would suggest you simply switch your camera to Scene mode and then Night HDR

I will definitely try that, especially since the result from my PP is not worth the effort.

Originally posted by j2photos:

Have you tried a piece of HDR software like Photomatix or Luminance HDR? Then set your camera to bracket.

Yes, as mentioned it was done via Luminance HDR.

Originally posted by wildman:

Something more like this?

EXACTLY like those! Wow, I like those!
Thanks a lot for sharing!

What software were you using for the merge?

Originally posted by skid2964:

I finally found "LR/Enfuse" which leaves a very natural looking HDR image.

Unfortunately I do not use Lightroom, but thanks for the tip.
Maybe in the future I will have to look into a userfriendly post processing tool...

Originally posted by Gregory_51:

... all the Gregory_51 wrote...

Thanks a lot for the extensive feedback!
Actually I was using aperture mode on the shots, with manual ISO. But unfortunately I had to adjust ISO to stay at reasonable exposure times. 30" is really a long time when the wind is blowing as hard as it was yesterday. Which was my first lesson: even if you are a big guy as me and can function as a windshield, the only thing better than a heavy clumsy tripod is an even heavier clumsier tripod! Mine is not cheap, but not exactly heavy either. I should look into something made out of metal...

The 4 shots you mentioned was actually a mistake ;-)

AND last but not least thanks a lot for your re-edit, those look amazing! Really impressive!

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02-04-2014, 08:11 AM	#1
wullemaha Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Tokyo Posts: 503	I officially can't do HDR Camera: K-5IIs Photo Location: Tokyo Hello friends, so, today I tried to do some HDR for the first time and failed horribly. I don't know whether just my capturing was done wrong or if I fail at postprocessing, but I am not satisfied at all. The light parts are too light, there's too much noise, and the colors don't look very natural to me. Here two of the pictures I tried to create: ZIP with RAW Files number 1 ZIP with RAW Files number 2 Can you tell me what went wrong? If it is my not-existing postprocessing skills (I used Luminance, for the first time as well), then please give me some guidance :-) The RAW Files are in public dropbox links beneath the pictures. If it is the shooting itself, please let me know what to do better next time. Thanks in advance for anybody offering some advice! BR René

02-04-2014, 09:56 AM	#2
jfuqua11 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 36	What are you using to merge the photos? What I do is take 5 photos -+ 2ev and use the automate HDR merge in photoshop. but for the most part photoshop doesn't do a very good job. here is a good starting point given from Scott Kelby " Radius 176; Strength 0.47; Gamma 0.76; Exposure 0.30; Detail 300%; Shadow 100%; Highlight -100%; Vibrance 22%; Saturation 26% That will get you the heavy HDR look that you see in many photos online. But I like a little more realistic look so sometimes I go Radius 51; Strength 0.61; Gamma 1.27; Exposure 0; Detail 170%; Shadow -65%; Highlight -38%; Vibrance 20%; Saturation -20%

02-04-2014, 10:06 AM	#3
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	For a shot like that I would suggest you simply switch your camera to Scene mode and then Night HDR. True, this will make a jpeg, but I usually like its results more than if I take three raw files, then process them and waste a bunch of time and HD space. The problem with HDR is that you need to tonemap the resulting tiff. And that's the hard part!

02-04-2014, 10:27 AM	#5
j2photos Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Manteca, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,653	Have you tried a piece of HDR software like Photomatix or Luminance HDR? Then set your camera to bracket.

02-04-2014, 10:58 AM	#6
nosliwmit Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Pacific Northwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 913	It's not really the type of scene that lends itself to HDR. You can't very well lighten the sky and darken the lights in this image. In this case you want dark darks and light lights...

02-04-2014, 11:53 AM	#7
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Something more like this? This is from your RAW set #1 and 2 This is a straight HDR merge with no toning nor additional PP. BTW I checked exposure values of the three frames and they appeared to be more or less spot on - nothing wrong with your on site technique or camera. The water will appear smoother than you remember because the final image is the result of three seperate time exposures of moving water. Last edited by wildman; 02-17-2014 at 02:19 AM.

02-04-2014, 12:25 PM	#8
skid2964 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2008 Location: USA Posts: 614	I tired several HDR merge solutions and found most modified the look of the final image way too much. I finally found "LR/Enfuse" which leaves a very natural looking HDR image. This is important to me since I use a 3 shot bracket for most of my interior real estate shots. here is the link: (It is for Lightroom, but if you have Lightroom, this works great!) LR/Enfuse - Blend Multiple Exposures Together in Adobe Lightroom

02-04-2014, 01:39 PM	#9
Gregory_51 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: London, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 343	This is the kind of scene HDR is used for. The sensor can't capture the range of tones in one shot so you bracket a series of shots. Looking at the EXIF data I'm not sure what you were doing. For starters 4 shots is odd. It's usually one under, middle and one over or two shots under, one middle and two over. The ISO looks to be changing as you shot like you were in auto ISO and the camera was trying to compensate, it's 100 for a couple of shots and then 400 and then 800. The highlights on the bridge are blown in all the shots and too far over to recover them all. The shot mode should be aperture priority, the aperture has to remain constant. Set the focus to manual so it won't change between shots. Shoot in RAW mode. Set the ISO to a single value that's suitable for the situation. Set the shot mode to bracket, preferably a 5 shot bracket to get the widest range of data. Check out YouTube, type in "shooting HDR" and there are lots of tutorials on how to shoot. You can also search for processing HDR and learn how to process them. There are plugins like Photomatix or NIK HDR 2 that will combine the images, remove ghosting and tonemap pretty much automatically but you can adjust them. You can put them in PS or PSE and work on them manually. Of course you can do HDR in camera but it will be a jpeg and you lose the control you have doing it on the computer. I noodled around and processed the shots. The first is a screen capture you posted, the middle one is manual adjustments is PSE and the far one is Photomatix. I posted it here. alternate edits on right of photo by wullemaha \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Cheers Greg

02-04-2014, 01:44 PM	#10
FrankC Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 322	Agree with others that this night scene isn't a good candidate for HDR. If you were in the city and trying to get detail in the shadows between the buildings and in the lit portions, then that would be a perfect opportunity to utilize the capabilities that HDR affords. The problem with Photomatix is that it can be very aggressive resulting in over-cooked images. Nik's HDR software is designed to be much more conservative and can't produce similar images. I do use both depending on the effect that I'm looking to produce.

02-04-2014, 05:34 PM	#11
wullemaha Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Tokyo Posts: 503 Original Poster	Hi there, thanks a lot for the input so far! I was not expecting so much help so fast, and it seems you have been waiting at home with Photoshop opened ready to load my RAW files. AWESOME! I will definitely try to incorporate your feedback into my next trials. Fun fact: even though I personally think those shots are mediocre at best, they got the highest "score" I ever had on 500px.com. People there are sometimes weird, I think I should only upload HDR and cat pictures, that seems to guarantee some likes So anyway, here a short answer to some of your posts: Originally posted by jfuqua11: What are you using to merge the photos? ... I used Luminance HDR, but I used it for the first time. I did go with +-2 or +-3 ev, but you are right, I think I should go even darker with the dark stuff the next time, as some highlights are blown out... Originally posted by Na Horuk: For a shot like that I would suggest you simply switch your camera to Scene mode and then Night HDR I will definitely try that, especially since the result from my PP is not worth the effort. Originally posted by j2photos: Have you tried a piece of HDR software like Photomatix or Luminance HDR? Then set your camera to bracket. Yes, as mentioned it was done via Luminance HDR. Originally posted by wildman: Something more like this? EXACTLY like those! Wow, I like those! Thanks a lot for sharing! What software were you using for the merge? Originally posted by skid2964: I finally found "LR/Enfuse" which leaves a very natural looking HDR image. Unfortunately I do not use Lightroom, but thanks for the tip. Maybe in the future I will have to look into a userfriendly post processing tool... Originally posted by Gregory_51: ... all the Gregory_51 wrote... Thanks a lot for the extensive feedback! Actually I was using aperture mode on the shots, with manual ISO. But unfortunately I had to adjust ISO to stay at reasonable exposure times. 30" is really a long time when the wind is blowing as hard as it was yesterday. Which was my first lesson: even if you are a big guy as me and can function as a windshield, the only thing better than a heavy clumsy tripod is an even heavier clumsier tripod! Mine is not cheap, but not exactly heavy either. I should look into something made out of metal... The 4 shots you mentioned was actually a mistake ;-) AND last but not least thanks a lot for your re-edit, those look amazing! Really impressive!