[ROBEFFY]

Hi,

I am playing with the KX camera and Sigma telephoto, and was not totally happy with the level of detail.
The camera was hand held, at 1/5000 second, with a 500 ISO, shot on Shutter Priority.
Ideas on how to make this a sharper image, or, is this about as good as it gets with this combination?
I have my doubts about a tripod at that high speed.
Regards,
Rob

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[MSL]

Obvious question that somebody will ask (so I may as well) - did you have Shake Reduction off?
To further minimize vibrations, were you shooting with mirror up and on a timer or remote trigger? I've heard that even 2s delay may not be enough time to tamp down all vibrations.
Finally - do you need 1/5000 to capture the bird without motion, or could you lower the shutter speed a bit and go to a smaller aperture - 2.8 gives you almost no depth of field.

[normhead]

Usually, 200mm isn't enough for birding. You subject just is not big enough.

[FrankC]

A couple of observations:
1) The shots were taken in open shade. Open shade produces flat lighting. Flat lighting causes images to appear to have a lower level of sharpness as opposed to side lighting which will accentuate the detail.

2) Closing the lens down from f/2.8 to f/4 or f/5.6 will produce sharper images in just about every lens made.

3) Have you tested the focusing of the lens? Is it back or front focusing? This, I'll admit, doesn't seem to be an issue with the images that you've supplied, but it's worth verifying.

If I had to bet, I'd say that the flat lighting is causing you to think the lens is soft.

[ausmoose]

I agree with the others, also maybe you've got the focus point slightly off. It's also possible you've got a faulty lens, but I'd guess this wasn't a case. You definitely don't need a shutter speed of 1/5000, like the others have said make it slower and make the aperture wider.

[MSL]

I agree with the others, also maybe you've got the focus point slightly off. It's also possible you've got a faulty lens, but I'd guess this wasn't a case. You definitely don't need a shutter speed of 1/5000, like the others have said make it slower and make the aperture wider.

The trees look reasonably sharp, so I don't think it is the lens.

[ausmoose]

The trees look reasonably sharp, so I don't think it is the lens.

Yeah, I didn't think so, just thought I'd mention the possibility.

[Lowell Goudge]

There are a couple of things I would consider, and do.

First of all though can you answer one question, regarding the lens, is it exactly as you have described, or is it the macro, HSM or HSM2 version? There are about 6 variants of this lens, and until the latest second version of the optically stabilized lens, the sharpest at maximum focal length was the one you have, or the non DG version of this lens (which came out prior to digital lenses- the only difference is the rear element coating)

Second, I would , especially if it is the lens you describe, add sigmas 2x tele converter. The quality is still more than what you need.

Third, I would gladly trade off shutter speed for f stops, because at 2.8 the DOF is quite shallow, and spot on focusing is a necessity, especially when cropping in to the middle 10% of the frame.

Lastly, and this is a real issue for birders specifically when shooting small birds, get closer. While many (self included) continually state that thee is no substitute for extra focal length, consider this

Image size = subject sic ex focal length / distance

Extra mm of focal length cost a lot of $$, moving closer costs you nothing. I realize, however there are limits to getting closer, because the subject is likely 10 meters up in the tree and you do need some angle on it.

One last point, the shot seems to be darker than I would like, and I wonder r what metering you used

Here is my shot using the earlier APO 70-200 F2.8 EX with the sigma 2x

The lens and TC is the way to go

[ROBEFFY]

Hi All,
I must say I am thrilled to get so much quality feedback. Thanks to all,of you.

MSL,
I was using my wifes camera for the first time, not sure if SR was on or off. I need to get more skilled with it. I have used a K10D for years and am getting used to upgrading and determining if I want a K50/30 or K3, Leaning towards K3.
i was hand held, so, used super high shutter speed.
In hindsight I should have played with F stops as well as shutter speed. I shot a variety of pics from 1/3200 to 1/5000, and all were the same.

Normhead,
I agree with you on the focal length, I was surprised I was able to get within 15-20 ft, and Woody was only 3 ft off ground level.
The Sigma teleconverter does not support autofocus, but I think I will just have to live with it. I started with full manual film cameras in the 60's, so I can live with manual focus.

FrankC
I didn't realize the shaded light would cause a softer image, I will try some shots both ways with a test object.
Same with playong with the F stop. Will experiment on that too. With a tripod, and will use my remote trigger.
No, have not tested the lens for front or back focus, but I have had success with crisp pics of dragonflies and other objects in the past. I believe the lens is working okay, will check it out.

MSL,
The trees are reasonably sharp, however I think I have seen better, which is likely related to the F2.8 setting.
My second shot is sunlit, and the tree bark is not as crisp as I would like it to be.

Ausmoose
Trees are okay but not great.I want better.

Lowell Goudfe,
The lens says APO DG MACRO HSM. It also has EX Sigma on the RH side (viewed from camera end).
I will check if the new Pentax Teleconverter will autofocus with this lens, and see about getting a teleconverter, my plan when I bought the lens. I have plenty of F stops to play with afterall.
With a manual focus lens the camera will still indicate, by beeping, when I hit focus. I used single spot focus mode for these pics.
So, Can I assume that it is easier to focus, or less critical tocus At different Fstops?
I like your explanation of image size, I have nevef read about that but it makes sense. It is all relative even if you use different units of mm focal length and distance in feet.
I have no idea on the metering, have to check what it was. I am not comfortable with this camera yet. On the K10 I know exactly how to set it.
Just looked up to set it, through a menu, and it is set to Multi Segment, which makes sense of the image darkness, as it was metering and averaging the brighter background.
Regarding your pic, do you live nearby? LOL. Nice shot, the TC definitely works. Sunshine, framed nicely, no twigs in the way.

I want to thank you all again for your input, much appreciated!
I have lots to do besides buying more gear.
Don't use F2.8 unless I have to, and I didn't have to. Use a tripod so .i don't need super high shutter speed. I am impressed with the Kx but learn how to use it better.
Check the lens for focus, test in daylight and shade.
Try to get closer.
Do a variety of shots at different shutter speeds and Fstops.

Best Regards,
Rob or robeffy

[TER-OR]

Low contrast always sucks the life out of images. Generally I'll shoot in TAV with aperture my first priority - 5.6 or 8 usually. Then adjust the shutter speed to acheive a comfortable ISO range. Center weight meter, center focus.

AFAIK the lens focuses while wide open, and when you trigger the aperture blades close down, the mirror lifts and shutter opens.

I used to have a K10, and in bright light it was outstanding but in low contrast it had some issues.

[ROBEFFY]

Hi Ter-or,
Interesting that you would mention Tav, that is the mode I am evolving into with the K10.
I always used M but realized I was doing extra work, and sometimes you,miss the shot as a result.
I have never considered a "strategy" as you suggest. Set Fstop for DOF makes sense as a composition consideration, set shutter speed to suit the type of shot such as action, windy day or calm day, running water, and keep the ISO in range. I have done some of this on an adhoc basis. Seems very logical!

You know, I really like the K10, Nd feel like upgrading before I understand what I am doing is a waste of money. I would make the same mistakes with a more expensive camera.

Thanks!
robeffy

[Lowell Goudge]

Robeffy

Thanks for the info.

From what I have read, your lens is not as sharp as mine, the compromise they made to do macro left the lens a little soft wide open at the longest focal lengths. It is still a good lens, but from all reports out there the best two are the one I have, and the last version with optical stabilization. I have had my lens for 10 years now, and although there are about 6 newer versions I have never had a desire to upgrade.

It is a shame that sigma does not make a pentax compatible TC for HSM lenses, because it would help you.

You could try manual focus, also and try one of their older TCs but I am not sure how easy accurate focus would be. My lens only has 90degrees of focus throw from minimum focus distance to infinity that makes accuracy tricky.

Changing to spot metering would help on exposure and you could stop the lens down as well.

One last trick which I have found works, is to go to manual, set the shutter speed to 1/180, and use flash with either a snoot or better Beamer to get additional reach. Flash duration is usually quite short and can help sharpen details

[ROBEFFY]

Hi Lowell,
Did some interesting test shots indoors, with my flash and without.
The flash did make things sharper, and I discovered that my wifes KX pics were much sharper than my K10.
Today my buddy arrived with a K5IIs, and we did a lens swap. I used his DA* 15-50 and DA* 60-250 on my camera, and my DA 16-45 and Sigma 70-200 DG APO HSM Macro on his camera, and also a variety of shots with lenses on the KX.
In every case the K10 pics were the worst, by a large margin. My lenses on the KX were fine, and on the K5IIS were slightly better than the KX.

There is an issue within my K10 camera body.

We believe that the Sigma was sharper than the DA* 60-250, however only slightly so. Basically not worth commenting on, I would be quite happy to have the DA* 60-250 for the extra 50mm focal length and the weather sealing.

I now know that my settings, and misuse of the camera gear was the issue on the woodpecker shots. Not my gear.

This has been a very interesting experience, and I definitely learned a lot from it. When the temp goes up a bit I'll go shoot outdoors again, been -30 here overnight lately, and days get up to -15 and windy, so wind chill is running -30 day time.

Thanks to you and all who responded!