Abstract Thoughts appreciated - low light and composition....

frangutz · 07-06-2014, 05:47 PM

Hi,

I was playing around with low light, no flash photography and trying to learn about composition.

Any thoughts on how I can improve...

I am a relative newbie, and am starting to get used to the camera now (until recently, I messed up every photo that had to use the flash... tonight I think I learnt about using the P and M modes in conjunction with the ISO, aperture and speed. I no longer got yellow tinged photos, but rather clean bright photos. I even managed to take some snaps with no flash!

Now to keep the momentum going...

=F.

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Sparkle · 07-07-2014, 10:15 AM

The depth of field is too shallow so the out of focus right eye and the airplane are distractions. The problem is likely the choice of lens.

The use of flash is always recommended especially if it is bounced or as fill-in, even through a white handkerchief.

Check your photos immediately so you can take another if necessary.

Learn to "SEE" not just "LOOK".

Read some books or find free on line.

Good luck.

frangutz · 07-07-2014, 04:48 PM

Hi. Thanks for the feedback. That's much appreciated.

as a matter of interest, what type of lens would be more appropriate for these types of shots?

Also, are you saying that if the plane was in focus (and his right eye), then the image would be stronger? Would using a different lens keep the background out of focus and the face/plane in focus? I used the standard lens in macro mode.

I will do some more reading.

=F.

Sparkle · 07-07-2014, 06:18 PM

Put away the camera. Ditto what I wrote before.

---------- Post added 7th Jul 2014 at 10:21 PM ----------

To look at other members photos click on the name and follow the options.

severalsnakes · 07-07-2014, 06:34 PM - **2 Likes**

Just another perspective on the issue: I disagree with Sparkle.

Keep your camera out. Take more pictures. Forget the flash. Lose the focal depth that f/8 gives you. Try TAv settings. Take it down to f/4. 1/30s should be sufficient with SR on and a willing model. Cap your ISO at 6400, or convert these high-ISO images to B/W to hide the noise. It is distracting at 12800. B/W will also allow you to take it to a high-key/high-contrast angle and emphasize the features of the child.

Don't ever put your camera away.

Sparkle · 07-07-2014, 10:55 PM

Off Camera Flash for Your Travel Photography

The above gives anther perspective on the use of FLASH.

If you got a gun. Would you just start pulling the trigger?

You would put it away until you learned how to use it.

Judge the advice from whence it comes.

When I taught photography I supplied my students with empty 35 mm slide frames. They looked through them at every opportunity to learn to see various compositions. They had an idea before they ever used a camera. The mind's eye is to be trained.

severalsnakes · 07-08-2014, 05:25 AM - **1 Like**

I'm just voicing a different philosophy. There are different means to an end. Frangutz knows how to use a camera, obviously, s/he just needs to fine tune the skills.

frangutz · 07-08-2014, 05:47 AM - **1 Like**

Thanks severalsnakes and sparkles. Definitely different ways to get to the goal!

altopiet · 07-08-2014, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by frangutz

Thanks severalsnakes and sparkles. Definitely different ways to get to the goal!

If I may ask, how far away were you from the subject? Is this a crop or OOC composition?

frangutz · 07-08-2014, 06:46 AM

Hi i was probably 1/2 m away (a couple of feet). I didn't do any processing. Just took the photo using the standard sigma lens that came with the camera.

No crop.

altopiet · 07-08-2014, 06:47 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by severalsnakes

Don't ever put your camera away.

Amen, at least you give positive critique! Practice makes perfect...I don't know a thing about photography, also still learning, but if you want to become a marksman, you practice as much as you can, you'll never do so by locking away your gun and just dreaming about it...

Sparkle · 07-08-2014, 07:13 AM

Reading as well as understanding learning appear to be problems.
Practicing mistakes leads to "Perfect" mistakes. Ergo, old habits die hard.
Walk before you run.
I simply advised to learn about basic photography (which should take only a few hours) then try to make pictures.

altopiet · 07-08-2014, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by frangutz

Hi i was probably 1/2 m away (a couple of feet). I didn't do any processing. Just took the photo using the standard sigma lens that came with the camera.

No crop.

Why I'm asking, is because it seems as if the lens might be slightly back focusing, that is if you used center point. According to Online Depth of Field Calculator, with your settings you should have about 1.3cm in focus in front and behind, but if you look at the right eye and teeth, and the side burn towards the back, you'll see what I mean....just an observation, if it was spot on, both eyes might've been in focus...

Sparkle · 07-08-2014, 09:27 AM

Amen, at least you give positive critique! Practice makes perfect...I don't know a thing about photography, also still learning, but if you want to become a marksman, you practice as much as you can, you'll never do so by locking away your gun and just dreaming about it..
For someone who writes "I don't know a thing about photography you sure have a lot to say, EH !

I, one the other hand have done it all in my 70 + years, grew up with it, took many courses from the best in person, know much about it and taught it.

I am also a winning marksman.

severalsnakes · 07-08-2014, 10:30 AM - **5 Likes**

Sparkle, I'm only 30 years old and I have only been serious about photography as a hobby for a couple years. I have never taken a photography course, nor taught one. I also have never shot a gun.

However, I enjoy photography as a hobby and I want to encourage anyone and everyone to enjoy it, too. I don't have an agenda or a course outline. But I do have gumption enough to say that you are coming off as elitist and rude, though you may not intend to. I didn't say you were wrong. I said I disagreed. All input in this critique is valuable. Not just yours.

People just have different opinions and philosophies about these things. I see photography as art, and no artist ever got better by ceasing to paint or sculpt. I believe it's a skill you hone through trial and error and a voice you find by experience.

EDIT: Some other ideas for Frangutz: Have you tried shooting in RAW mode? That will really expand the possibilities with post-processing. It has changed my world! Experiment with light; the "golden hours" (an hour after sunrise and an hour before sunset, roughly) yields lovely, flattering light, especially for portraits. A shady spot on a sunny day is also pleasant, but you have to watch out for blown-out skies and backgrounds. Experiment with the "rule of thirds" and shoot wider than you think you need. A photograph with too much space in it can be cropped for composition, but if it is already tight, then there's no where to go!

07-08-2014, 10:30 AM - 5 Likes	#15
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	Sparkle, I'm only 30 years old and I have only been serious about photography as a hobby for a couple years. I have never taken a photography course, nor taught one. I also have never shot a gun. However, I enjoy photography as a hobby and I want to encourage anyone and everyone to enjoy it, too. I don't have an agenda or a course outline. But I do have gumption enough to say that you are coming off as elitist and rude, though you may not intend to. I didn't say you were wrong. I said I disagreed. All input in this critique is valuable. Not just yours. People just have different opinions and philosophies about these things. I see photography as art, and no artist ever got better by ceasing to paint or sculpt. I believe it's a skill you hone through trial and error and a voice you find by experience. EDIT: Some other ideas for Frangutz: Have you tried shooting in RAW mode? That will really expand the possibilities with post-processing. It has changed my world! Experiment with light; the "golden hours" (an hour after sunrise and an hour before sunset, roughly) yields lovely, flattering light, especially for portraits. A shady spot on a sunny day is also pleasant, but you have to watch out for blown-out skies and backgrounds. Experiment with the "rule of thirds" and shoot wider than you think you need. A photograph with too much space in it can be cropped for composition, but if it is already tight, then there's no where to go! Last edited by severalsnakes; 07-08-2014 at 10:36 AM.

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07-07-2014, 10:15 AM	#2
Sparkle Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,521	The depth of field is too shallow so the out of focus right eye and the airplane are distractions. The problem is likely the choice of lens. The use of flash is always recommended especially if it is bounced or as fill-in, even through a white handkerchief. Check your photos immediately so you can take another if necessary. Learn to "SEE" not just "LOOK". Read some books or find free on line. Good luck.

07-07-2014, 04:48 PM	#3
frangutz Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 28 Original Poster	Hi. Thanks for the feedback. That's much appreciated. as a matter of interest, what type of lens would be more appropriate for these types of shots? Also, are you saying that if the plane was in focus (and his right eye), then the image would be stronger? Would using a different lens keep the background out of focus and the face/plane in focus? I used the standard lens in macro mode. I will do some more reading. =F.

07-07-2014, 06:18 PM	#4
Sparkle Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,521	Put away the camera. Ditto what I wrote before. ---------- Post added 7th Jul 2014 at 10:21 PM ---------- To look at other members photos click on the name and follow the options.

07-07-2014, 06:34 PM - 2 Likes	#5
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	Just another perspective on the issue: I disagree with Sparkle. Keep your camera out. Take more pictures. Forget the flash. Lose the focal depth that f/8 gives you. Try TAv settings. Take it down to f/4. 1/30s should be sufficient with SR on and a willing model. Cap your ISO at 6400, or convert these high-ISO images to B/W to hide the noise. It is distracting at 12800. B/W will also allow you to take it to a high-key/high-contrast angle and emphasize the features of the child. Don't ever put your camera away.

07-07-2014, 10:55 PM	#6
Sparkle Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,521	Off Camera Flash for Your Travel Photography The above gives anther perspective on the use of FLASH. If you got a gun. Would you just start pulling the trigger? You would put it away until you learned how to use it. Judge the advice from whence it comes. When I taught photography I supplied my students with empty 35 mm slide frames. They looked through them at every opportunity to learn to see various compositions. They had an idea before they ever used a camera. The mind's eye is to be trained.

07-08-2014, 05:25 AM - 1 Like	#7
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	I'm just voicing a different philosophy. There are different means to an end. Frangutz knows how to use a camera, obviously, s/he just needs to fine tune the skills.

07-08-2014, 05:47 AM - 1 Like	#8
frangutz Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 28 Original Poster	Thanks severalsnakes and sparkles. Definitely different ways to get to the goal!

07-08-2014, 06:32 AM	#9
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by frangutz Thanks severalsnakes and sparkles. Definitely different ways to get to the goal! If I may ask, how far away were you from the subject? Is this a crop or OOC composition?

07-08-2014, 06:46 AM	#10
frangutz Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 28 Original Poster	Hi i was probably 1/2 m away (a couple of feet). I didn't do any processing. Just took the photo using the standard sigma lens that came with the camera. No crop.

07-08-2014, 06:47 AM - 2 Likes	#11
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by severalsnakes Don't ever put your camera away. Amen, at least you give positive critique! Practice makes perfect...I don't know a thing about photography, also still learning, but if you want to become a marksman, you practice as much as you can, you'll never do so by locking away your gun and just dreaming about it...

07-08-2014, 07:13 AM	#12
Sparkle Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,521	Reading as well as understanding learning appear to be problems. Practicing mistakes leads to "Perfect" mistakes. Ergo, old habits die hard. Walk before you run. I simply advised to learn about basic photography (which should take only a few hours) then try to make pictures.

07-08-2014, 08:56 AM	#13
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by frangutz Hi i was probably 1/2 m away (a couple of feet). I didn't do any processing. Just took the photo using the standard sigma lens that came with the camera. No crop. Why I'm asking, is because it seems as if the lens might be slightly back focusing, that is if you used center point. According to Online Depth of Field Calculator, with your settings you should have about 1.3cm in focus in front and behind, but if you look at the right eye and teeth, and the side burn towards the back, you'll see what I mean....just an observation, if it was spot on, both eyes might've been in focus...

07-08-2014, 09:27 AM	#14
Sparkle Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,521	Amen, at least you give positive critique! Practice makes perfect...I don't know a thing about photography, also still learning, but if you want to become a marksman, you practice as much as you can, you'll never do so by locking away your gun and just dreaming about it.. For someone who writes "I don't know a thing about photography you sure have a lot to say, EH ! I, one the other hand have done it all in my 70 + years, grew up with it, took many courses from the best in person, know much about it and taught it. I am also a winning marksman.