Night Local Brew Pub

**cg57** · 01-17-2015, 08:02 PM

Have passed this pub a thousand times but now that I'm into photograph, I see everything differently.
I try and take my camera with me all the time.
First serious try at night photography.

Let me know the good and the bad.
Thanks,
Cindy

ps for whatever reason ISO and rapture didn't save properly.
ISO was 12800 and aperture was f2.8

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

Last edited by cg57; 01-17-2015 at 08:09 PM.

**MSL** · 01-17-2015, 08:14 PM

It is good of you to try and good of you to ask for criticism. Here are the problems that I see or questions that you need to think about. One is that there are too many blown highlights. Lights that are too bright is a common issue for night photography, but in this case part of the pub's sign is unreadable because the details have been lost. The image doesn't need to be this bright - it would be much more compelling if the sky were closer to black than blue. The EXIF data says you used spot metering. What did you meter off of? For a scene like this that would be critical. My other concern is what is the focus of the image? I see a bunch of cars in front of a building but nothing that tells me a story or that draws my eye to a particular place. You might do better shooting from a very different angle - one that is less face on, or cropping to lose the cars (or shooting where there aren't any cars there). Since you pass the building all the time, maybe shoot it during the day when you don't have the same lighting challenges and see what it is that might make this an interesting building to capture.

**cg57** · 01-17-2015, 09:50 PM

MSL,
Thank you so much for your comments. Really makes me step back and THINK!
This kind of meaty critique that will help me become a better photographer.
Indeed, the cars add no value to the picture, as the building is the subject.
What drew me to take the picture is the lighted square top sitting up there like a beacon.
I spot metered on center.
i believe I face in a northerly direction, so I'm thinking a morning shot may give better results, plus I want to see what the door looks like.

Thanks again,
Cindy

**MSL** · 01-17-2015, 10:20 PM

Cindy,
Did you shoot RAW or JPG? If raw, there may be some scope to tweak the current photo to give a better sense of what is possible in terms of capturing the square top beacon.
One easy thing to try next time you want to night shoot is to shoot a 3 or 5 picture bracket where the last photo is properly exposed and the other 2 or 4 are underexposed, either in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments. Then you don't have to be exact in the metering, and you'll also get a sense of how dark the image might be if you don't blow out the bright areas, gradually upping how much you then overexpose these areas for the shots that are later in the bracket.

**cg57** · 01-18-2015, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by MSL

Cindy,
Did you shoot RAW or JPG?
I shot raw

There may be some scope to tweak the current photo to give a better sense of what is possible in terms of capturing the square top beacon.
I'll try.

One easy thing to try next time you want to night shoot is to shoot a 3 or 5 picture bracket where the last photo is properly exposed and the other 2 or 4 are underexposed, either in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments. Then you don't have to be exact in the metering, and you'll also get a sense of how dark the image might be if you don't blow out the bright areas, gradually upping how much you then overexpose these areas for the shots that are later in the bracket.

I'll bracket next time.
Again, thank you for your help.
Cg

nomadkng · 01-19-2015, 03:59 PM

cars can be an effective part of the composition if framed properly. the fact that the vehicles are cut off about bumper height makes them appear as an unwanted intrusion or photographer error. the building being centered makes it feel like a shoot and run pic and the image just feels too claustrophobic. maybe a wider perspective with more thought to the rule of thirds could help.

other issues: iso 12800 and f2.8 is not doing the image any favors, even if perfectly composed. you are sacrificing detail with the wide aperture and then compounding it with noise from high iso. night shots should really be shot with a tripod and longer exposures.

now, what might I do with this photo? possibly set up across the street shoot iso 100 and about f8 for 2 minutes (?) depending on light level. the moving vehicles would produce light trails and the activity in and out of the restaurant parking lot and surrounding street might tell a story. maybe even try to get elevated above street level for a different perspective. that's one brainstorm off the top of my head.

**cg57** · 01-19-2015, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by nomadkng

cars can be an effective part of the composition if framed properly. the fact that the vehicles are cut off about bumper height makes them appear as an unwanted intrusion or photographer error. the building being centered makes it feel like a shoot and run pic and the image just feels too claustrophobic. maybe a wider perspective with more thought to the rule of thirds could help.

other issues: iso 12800 and f2.8 is not doing the image any favors, even if perfectly composed. you are sacrificing detail with the wide aperture and then compounding it with noise from high iso. night shots should really be shot with a tripod and longer exposures.

now, what might I do with this photo? possibly set up across the street shoot iso 100 and about f8 for 2 minutes (?) depending on light level. the moving vehicles would produce light trails and the activity in and out of the restaurant parking lot and surrounding street might tell a story. maybe even try to get elevated above street level for a different perspective. that's one brainstorm off the top of my head.

nomadkng,
You're spot on. This was a shot and run. I was late and cold and I didn't give it proper thought, I plunged ahead with the shot trying to get the top of building positioned without cutting off it off. The cars were an annoyance at the time.
I have been pondering on how to re-shoot the building.
I've been playing around then some post settings but not satisfied with anything.
I like your suggestions -- thank you so much!
So much to learn and i'm way too impulsive at times.
I'll be re-shooting this and reposting.
Cg

Last edited by cg57; 01-20-2015 at 09:08 AM. Reason: grammatical errors and logic of sentence.

**MSL** · 01-19-2015, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by cg57

I'll be re-shooting this and reposting.

Sounds good. One thing I've learned - digital shots are cheap. Even in the cold (or especially in the cold where you might only shoot one thing) take as many shots as you can before you have to run, even if you only move one step in either direction, or change your camera angle from one shot to the next

**cg57** · 01-20-2015, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by MSL

Sounds good. One thing I've learned - digital shots are cheap. Even in the cold (or especially in the cold where you might only shoot one thing) take as many shots as you can before you have to run, even if you only move one step in either direction, or change your camera angle from one shot to the next

MSL,

Thanks for the advise. Will remember these things for future shooting!

Cindy

**cg57** · 07-05-2015, 02:15 AM

finally getting a 2nd photo of this posted. Had difficult time this past winter reshooting and editing getting a satisfactory enough shot to post.
I worked on the lighting and better composition. I am quite disappointed with the tree and parking lot light pole -- I shot from across the street at several different angles and simply couldn't work around them. trying to edit them out was a nightmare for me, so I have posted as is for now.

**cg57** · 07-05-2015, 12:17 PM

this exposure is a bit better.

wildman · 07-05-2015, 05:11 PM

I think your primary mistake is that you didn't appreciate just how demanding these night shots are - a dynamic range far beyond what the sensor can accommodate and multiple different light sources creating a nightmare for proper white balance.

Having said that you could have taken a properly exposed RAW file and corrected, as much as possible in PP, not perfect but at least optimal.
These kind of shots are not for the faint of heart - you are not going to just point the camera at something and expect the camera to do the heavy lifting. You have got to bring some understanding of the limitations of your gear.

Read up a bit on the limitations of sensors, White Balance and post processing if you want to get into urban night shots like this.

**cg57** · 07-05-2015, 06:16 PM

thanks Wildman for the critique, I really appreciate the comments and advise.
I have been shooting in raw so that I could pp but I couldn't bring out corrections you did. I have tried a couple of editiors, I seem to get tangled up in tweaking and before I know it I messed the picture up so I go back to the original.
I will read up and keep working.
I am discovering that really like night shots ---- and it is incredibly challenging.

**Carpon** · 07-08-2015, 02:43 AM

Educating tread, and I like your tenacity to learn and get it right, learned a lot myself, what a great thing to be a part off. A group off people with the same passion that really want you to get better in photography.

**cg57** · 07-08-2015, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Carpon

Educating tread, and I like your tenacity to learn and get it right, learned a lot myself, what a great thing to be a part off. A group off people with the same passion that really want you to get better in photography.

Thank you Carpon.
This is a great place to learn.
Glad you join Pentax Forum.
I've been working pp wifh some of the raw shots i took of this and taking more time.
I'm learning a lot just by the subtle changes in color, sensitivity, wb, dodging, etc.
Hope to post one of those soon.

07-05-2015, 02:15 AM	#10
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	follow up photo finally getting a 2nd photo of this posted. Had difficult time this past winter reshooting and editing getting a satisfactory enough shot to post. I worked on the lighting and better composition. I am quite disappointed with the tree and parking lot light pole -- I shot from across the street at several different angles and simply couldn't work around them. trying to edit them out was a nightmare for me, so I have posted as is for now. Attached Images

07-05-2015, 12:17 PM	#11
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	this exposure is a bit better. Attached Images

07-05-2015, 05:11 PM	#12
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	I think your primary mistake is that you didn't appreciate just how demanding these night shots are - a dynamic range far beyond what the sensor can accommodate and multiple different light sources creating a nightmare for proper white balance. Having said that you could have taken a properly exposed RAW file and corrected, as much as possible in PP, not perfect but at least optimal. These kind of shots are not for the faint of heart - you are not going to just point the camera at something and expect the camera to do the heavy lifting. You have got to bring some understanding of the limitations of your gear. Read up a bit on the limitations of sensors, White Balance and post processing if you want to get into urban night shots like this. Last edited by wildman; 07-09-2015 at 01:47 PM.

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01-17-2015, 08:14 PM	#2
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,751	It is good of you to try and good of you to ask for criticism. Here are the problems that I see or questions that you need to think about. One is that there are too many blown highlights. Lights that are too bright is a common issue for night photography, but in this case part of the pub's sign is unreadable because the details have been lost. The image doesn't need to be this bright - it would be much more compelling if the sky were closer to black than blue. The EXIF data says you used spot metering. What did you meter off of? For a scene like this that would be critical. My other concern is what is the focus of the image? I see a bunch of cars in front of a building but nothing that tells me a story or that draws my eye to a particular place. You might do better shooting from a very different angle - one that is less face on, or cropping to lose the cars (or shooting where there aren't any cars there). Since you pass the building all the time, maybe shoot it during the day when you don't have the same lighting challenges and see what it is that might make this an interesting building to capture.

01-17-2015, 09:50 PM	#3
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	MSL, Thank you so much for your comments. Really makes me step back and THINK! This kind of meaty critique that will help me become a better photographer. Indeed, the cars add no value to the picture, as the building is the subject. What drew me to take the picture is the lighted square top sitting up there like a beacon. I spot metered on center. i believe I face in a northerly direction, so I'm thinking a morning shot may give better results, plus I want to see what the door looks like. Thanks again, Cindy

01-17-2015, 10:20 PM	#4
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,751	Cindy, Did you shoot RAW or JPG? If raw, there may be some scope to tweak the current photo to give a better sense of what is possible in terms of capturing the square top beacon. One easy thing to try next time you want to night shoot is to shoot a 3 or 5 picture bracket where the last photo is properly exposed and the other 2 or 4 are underexposed, either in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments. Then you don't have to be exact in the metering, and you'll also get a sense of how dark the image might be if you don't blow out the bright areas, gradually upping how much you then overexpose these areas for the shots that are later in the bracket.

01-18-2015, 12:11 AM	#5
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	Originally posted by MSL Cindy, Did you shoot RAW or JPG? I shot raw There may be some scope to tweak the current photo to give a better sense of what is possible in terms of capturing the square top beacon. I'll try. One easy thing to try next time you want to night shoot is to shoot a 3 or 5 picture bracket where the last photo is properly exposed and the other 2 or 4 are underexposed, either in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments. Then you don't have to be exact in the metering, and you'll also get a sense of how dark the image might be if you don't blow out the bright areas, gradually upping how much you then overexpose these areas for the shots that are later in the bracket. I'll bracket next time. Again, thank you for your help. Cg

01-19-2015, 03:59 PM	#6
nomadkng Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,448	cars can be an effective part of the composition if framed properly. the fact that the vehicles are cut off about bumper height makes them appear as an unwanted intrusion or photographer error. the building being centered makes it feel like a shoot and run pic and the image just feels too claustrophobic. maybe a wider perspective with more thought to the rule of thirds could help. other issues: iso 12800 and f2.8 is not doing the image any favors, even if perfectly composed. you are sacrificing detail with the wide aperture and then compounding it with noise from high iso. night shots should really be shot with a tripod and longer exposures. now, what might I do with this photo? possibly set up across the street shoot iso 100 and about f8 for 2 minutes (?) depending on light level. the moving vehicles would produce light trails and the activity in and out of the restaurant parking lot and surrounding street might tell a story. maybe even try to get elevated above street level for a different perspective. that's one brainstorm off the top of my head.

01-19-2015, 07:29 PM	#7
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	Originally posted by nomadkng cars can be an effective part of the composition if framed properly. the fact that the vehicles are cut off about bumper height makes them appear as an unwanted intrusion or photographer error. the building being centered makes it feel like a shoot and run pic and the image just feels too claustrophobic. maybe a wider perspective with more thought to the rule of thirds could help. other issues: iso 12800 and f2.8 is not doing the image any favors, even if perfectly composed. you are sacrificing detail with the wide aperture and then compounding it with noise from high iso. night shots should really be shot with a tripod and longer exposures. now, what might I do with this photo? possibly set up across the street shoot iso 100 and about f8 for 2 minutes (?) depending on light level. the moving vehicles would produce light trails and the activity in and out of the restaurant parking lot and surrounding street might tell a story. maybe even try to get elevated above street level for a different perspective. that's one brainstorm off the top of my head. nomadkng, You're spot on. This was a shot and run. I was late and cold and I didn't give it proper thought, I plunged ahead with the shot trying to get the top of building positioned without cutting off it off. The cars were an annoyance at the time. I have been pondering on how to re-shoot the building. I've been playing around then some post settings but not satisfied with anything. I like your suggestions -- thank you so much! So much to learn and i'm way too impulsive at times. I'll be re-shooting this and reposting. Cg Last edited by cg57; 01-20-2015 at 09:08 AM. Reason: grammatical errors and logic of sentence.

01-19-2015, 10:34 PM	#8
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,751	Originally posted by cg57 I'll be re-shooting this and reposting. Sounds good. One thing I've learned - digital shots are cheap. Even in the cold (or especially in the cold where you might only shoot one thing) take as many shots as you can before you have to run, even if you only move one step in either direction, or change your camera angle from one shot to the next

01-20-2015, 09:06 AM	#9
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	Originally posted by MSL Sounds good. One thing I've learned - digital shots are cheap. Even in the cold (or especially in the cold where you might only shoot one thing) take as many shots as you can before you have to run, even if you only move one step in either direction, or change your camera angle from one shot to the next MSL, Thanks for the advise. Will remember these things for future shooting! Cindy

07-05-2015, 06:16 PM	#13
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	thanks Wildman for the critique, I really appreciate the comments and advise. I have been shooting in raw so that I could pp but I couldn't bring out corrections you did. I have tried a couple of editiors, I seem to get tangled up in tweaking and before I know it I messed the picture up so I go back to the original. I will read up and keep working. I am discovering that really like night shots ---- and it is incredibly challenging.

07-08-2015, 02:43 AM	#14
Carpon Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands Photos: Albums Posts: 330	Educating tread, and I like your tenacity to learn and get it right, learned a lot myself, what a great thing to be a part off. A group off people with the same passion that really want you to get better in photography.

07-08-2015, 07:19 PM	#15
cg57 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133 Original Poster	Originally posted by Carpon Educating tread, and I like your tenacity to learn and get it right, learned a lot myself, what a great thing to be a part off. A group off people with the same passion that really want you to get better in photography. Thank you Carpon. This is a great place to learn. Glad you join Pentax Forum. I've been working pp wifh some of the raw shots i took of this and taking more time. I'm learning a lot just by the subtle changes in color, sensitivity, wb, dodging, etc. Hope to post one of those soon.