[txirriñe]

Hello everyone,

I'm a complete beginner at photography and I would appreciate some help to improve as a photographer and get better pictures. I got my first DSLR camera from this page a couple of weeks ago, and last weekend had some time to get photos which would like to share with you (those which i like most) in order to get some feedback.

I don't know if it's OK if upload them all in one post or if I have to post each one with it's respective thread as I'm new here. If it's OK please tell me as I would like to upload them as well, but for now I will post my favourite one. Hope you like it too!

The first picture is how it looks like in the raw, and the second picture is post-processed.

Thanks in advance!

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[Tas]

G'Day mate,

I really like the sky exposure, you've retained all the detail including around the setting sun so it looks really good.

When you look at your image do you see a lot of black and a wonderful sky? This is what I see with both the RAW and the processed image. Typically a scene like this requires more dynamic range than what the camera sensor can handle so this is where you have to look at retaining the sky so it doesn't blow out whilst capturing some great foreground detail. It's really hard to assess the image because of the dark area, but I'll provide some feedback to hopefully point you in the right direction, as I'm sure others will too.

• With a scene like this try and place the horizon about 1/3rd from the top of the frame. This is normal for a scene like this unless you're trying to emphasise the sky in which case you would place the horizon 1/3rd from the bottom of the frame. This is using the rule of thirds and is the best approach unless the subject is one that a central horizon can work with.

• To improve the detail in the foreground you need to consider the use of neutral density filters and/or combining exposures in post processing.
  • Filters: You can get inexpensive filter sets from Cokin and these will give you the ability to darken the sky to allow you to increase the exposure to capture more foreground detail. Filters are quick and a useful tool but they tend to add a colour caste and can be susceptible to flaring. the colour caste is generally easy to fix but flaring may require some movement of the camera to manage correctly. So filters will work, will let you capture the scene as best as possible on the day but they're not perfect.
  • Post Processing: To use post processing techniques you need to either combine two exposures using layers like in Photoshop, or use a High Dynamic Range (HDR) technique. Using layers you need at least two images, one exposed for the sky, the other for the foreground. This technique requires the right software and skills to make it work, especially if the scene would benefit from a third intermediate exposure. So whilst this might give you really good results, your skills need to be sufficient to master the technique. The HDR option can use 2 or more images, the common approach is usually between 3-5 images but with dedicated software you can combine many more. The K5 can bracket 2-5 images for you through the drive menu. There is dedicated HDR software, or programs that do HDR like Lightroom to choose from if you don't already have something. The combining of the exposures is an automatic tool that then gets 'massaged' by you to ensure the image looks realistic. This might be the simplest way of getting a scene like you've captured with good foreground detail without losing the sky. Note though, that it is best to use a tripod to limit ghosting from misalignment, and there is a need to understand how to make the image look realistic.

• With the sky you have, I'd look at finding something good to place in the foreground, again on a third intersection and have the sky as the backdrop. The exposure will need to allow the foreground subject to be seen as a feature of the image with that wonderful sky in the background. As an alternative to using filters or PP you could maybe look for a strong feature that would work as a silhouette against the sky. A good example of this is a large dead tree with spreading dead branches reaching up to the sky. This could then remain black with the horizon on the bottom third or even a bit lower if you chose a central framing of the tree. That composition would go well with a square crop for example.

Anyhoo, I hope this feedback will give you some ideas for the next time you're out in the landscape. The best thing is to keep going out and try different exposures to see what works best. For example, there's a technique called Exposing To The Right (ETTR). You use the cameras indicators to prevent the sky blowing out and you ensure the histogram is as far over to the right as possible. This will give you more to work with in post processing where you can raise the shadows whilst reducing the highlights. Use Google to find some blogs on ETTR if that sounds like something you want to try.

So far as posting multiple images goes, there's no problem putting them in one post but if the images are completely different to one another you might be best off targeting one image at a time, get some feedback on it then seek feedback on the next image in a new post. Main thing is keep getting out there capturing skies like this, it's really well exposed and provides the sun as a point highlight. I look forward to seeing more of what you've captured.

Tas

[dms]

I think the photo is well done--the foreground and background are interesting and complement each other, and I like the placement of all the elements--the horizon, the terrain, the sun, etc. And the exposure seems correct. The sun/sky are not overexposed and the terrain/foreground/middle ground have detail (more on that below).

The question for me would be whether your likely intent: to contrast the dark masses to the sky (emphasis on the mysterious); works as well as highlighting/showing (what I assume is) the layers of fog. For the latter you could push up the exposure there, and keep the sky about where it is. I did take the liberty of trying it out in photoshop--and for me it works better w/o the mystery of the dark shapes, and instead showing the fog.

But these are aesthetic choices, not a right or wrong. But I would suggest you try (emotionally and literally) lightening the image.

[rkappleby]

When you shoot in raw there is a lot of stored information for you to work with. I made a few quick changes to your second photo to bring out more of the foreground and a bit more of the midpoint. Once you have taken a photo where you go with it is often up to your personal preferences. You will find with landscapes that you want to try to develop interest in the foreground, midpoint and background. Photography is a hobby or profession in which the learning never stops I hope you have a lot of fun.

I hope you don't mind my tinkering

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[txirriñe]

When you look at your image do you see a lot of black and a wonderful sky? This is what I see with both the RAW and the processed image.

No, what I see is highlighted shadows with the detailed sky, I have seen this post in my mobile. I don't have any tripod yet (going to buy it asap) so I cannot process the high dynamic range properly.

Thanks for your feedback, really helpful and already noted down everything for the next time.

The question for me would be whether your likely intent: to contrast the dark masses to the sky (emphasis on the mysterious); works as well as highlighting/showing (what I assume is) the layers of fog. For the latter you could push up the exposure there, and keep the sky about where it is. I did take the liberty of trying it out in photoshop--and for me it works better w/o the mystery of the dark shapes, and instead showing the fog.

My intention as you have said was to bring out the details of the dark masses as for me it would look better as well. Thanks for your feedback!

When you shoot in raw there is a lot of stored information for you to work with. I made a few quick changes to your second photo to bring out more of the foreground and a bit more of the midpoint. Once you have taken a photo where you go with it is often up to your personal preferences. You will find with landscapes that you want to try to develop interest in the foreground, midpoint and background. Photography is a hobby or profession in which the learning never stops I hope you have a lot of fun.

I hope you don't mind my tinkering

That was my initial intention with the post-processing but didn't succeed. Could you tell exactly which properties have you change for this pic? I have tried to edit the image again but I prefer the result you have achieved. And thanks for your answer!

Do you think this is okey?

[rkappleby]

Do you think this is okey?

Absolutely - First off I have to say I like this photo a lot, it has a great deal of interest in it.The fall colours, the rolling misty hills in the mid point and the wonderful sky background all combine into a great photo - if you are using Lightroom I think I brightened the foreground just a bit more than you, I bumped up the clarity for the entire photo just a bit and I think I adjusted the white point and black point just a bit to increase the contrast in the photo. I'll bet it was a beautiful evening when you took the photo.

[dms]

This is now the point where (for subsequent iterations) individual preferences will play importantly.

In my case I prefer the very foreground (tree on left, grass, etc.) to be a little darker, so that the eye is drawn 1st to the sky, 2nd to the fog, and 3rd to the foreground. As it is now the foreground (for me) is too strong--tends to be the first thing we (I) look at.

Actually I take that back--your last version is (for me) a good balance--although you don't feel this way.

[Tas]

No, what I see is highlighted shadows with the detailed sky

When I viewed your images yesterday, it was daytime and I had the blinds open. I close these blinds to do PP on my images and clearly I needed to do that to see the difference between the two images you originally posted. My apologies on that.

Having said that, the processed version is still too dark and retaining a lot of black/near black needs to be managed to guide the eye around the image without dominating the scene. Your original PP version has a large dark triangle splitting the foreground and leaving little detail, even with my blinds closed. dms has explained how he would process the scene and rkappleby has shown you their interpretation. And I agree with both that this was a scene well worth capturing and containing some good compositional elements to work with. Beyond that as is discussed already, it gets subjective.

Each person will represent a scene differently, and an example of this is in the forum post-processing challenges. Here's a link to the current challenge: PP Challenge #238 Arty Portrait. - PentaxForums.com This challenge is a portrait image but the images include a range of topics and those who participate get to put their interpretation on the same image. One of the reasons I became a regular is to see how each person interpreted the image and how they post processed it. Maybe you should jump in too? It's very interesting to see what is submitted and the feedback provided by the host on each one is further insight into how your version was interpreted.

But back to your image. The sky is near perfect as is, maybe a little lighter would help, but get rid of the dust bunny in the top right corner. The foreground is the really tricky bit, but there's plenty to work with, so now I can see the details I'd like to offer my 2c worth. To do that I'd like to start with the important element of capturing and processing an image, that is to answer the question, 'Why am I looking at this image?'

The sky is very nice, and it needs to remain a strong element of the scene, so the idea of keeping the foreground sufficiently subdued is what I would look at. This must be balanced with highlighting the elements that I would like to draw the eye to and the part that for me, is one of the best reasons to look at this image: and that's the fog lined hills in the centre right.

I also hope you don't mind me tinkering in order to answer your question. I took your PP version from your original post and checked the black/white points, here's where the blacks are so dense that there is no information being shown. It is normal to set a black point around the point where the blue appears but not this much as it means there's no detail and it's too heavy for the scene.



From there I looked at setting the tones to ensure the foreground remained quite dark overall to allow me to mask in the areas I wanted to highlight. I used both tones and colour channels to balance the foreground but as I wanted to avoid impacting the sky I did most of this using masks. I did removed your dust bunny though.

It's difficult to work on a jpeg and get the results you want so this isn't quite what I was after but close to how I would process this scene.



I used a 25% opacity brush on the two trees in the foreground and the foggy hills in the background. I used a separate 10% opacity mask to ensure some detail could be seen in the darker parts of the scene. White balance and colour in the shadows was an issue but I tried to settle on a neutral but slightly warmer look, hopefully the magentas are sufficiently controlled along with the blues in the shadows. I don't think I got it completely where I would finish this image but I think it's close enough to provide an example of balancing the light, even if the overall image luminance is slightly dark still. As this is not my photo I removed all copies of your image from my system after processing this example.

I thought you might also like to watch this video:

You Tube

You Tube

I use On1 which is what is being used here, but it's not about the software more a case of how he's taken a scene and used subtle changes to create a much more interesting scene out of a very drab raw photo. This is similar to what I did to your image.

Thanks again for letting me discuss your image of a wonderful landscape.

Tas

[txirriñe]

Wow! Thank you very very much for your time and responses! I really appreciate your help and now feel more motivated to improve in photography. I'm really enjoying this and I am very happy to have shared this landscape with you and get your feedback! Really helpful!

Thanks again for letting me discuss your image of a wonderful landscape.

Thank you for taking your time giving those very helpful answers, I love the result you got with the landscape and I'll check that video as I'm willing to learn new tips of postprocessing!

I will continue playing with the image until I get a look I really really like.
Thanks for all!