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12-12-2017, 07:51 AM   #1
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Please help me with my volleyball shots!
Lens: Sigma 80-200 2.8 Camera: Pentax K-50 ISO: 1600 Shutter Speed: 1/500s Aperture: F2.8 

My images are decent, but I want them better! Should I run a higher ISO to get to 3.2 aperture?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Here is a link to the photos:

Photos from AEV Pre-season Tournament! - SPARK Volleyball Team | Facebook

12-12-2017, 08:11 AM   #2
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I suspect I'm seeing a lot of camera movement. My suggesting would be a tripod or monopod, probably a monopod. Your shutter speed probably doesn't have to be 1/500, 1/250 would get you to ƒ4. 1/25 gets you to ƒ5.6. Without a camera with super fast AF you're going to have to rely on DoF to keep your subject sharp, but, that usually means over more motion blur. I personally don't like images taken over 1600 with that class of camera much, with a K-P of K-70 I'd definitely say give 3200 a try. But, my old K-5 was OK sometimes at 3200 ISO, noticeable decline in IQ but useable, but not dependable.

I know you're trying to produce images of your events, so kind of like pro work, but you have to experiment to find out what works best for you. But that's what I see looking at the images, too narrow DoF, and camera motion blur.
12-12-2017, 08:27 AM   #3
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Thank you!!! Would I benefit much from a newer Pentax ?
12-12-2017, 08:34 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by TXPentaxK50 Quote
Would I benefit from a newer Pentax ?
Definitely.... K-70, K-P and K-1 would all give you one stop more chance of success shooting 3200 ISO if you choose to go that high, and cleaner images a lower ISOs.The Sigma 70-200 before the Pentax 70-200 was the top of the heap for 70-200 on Pentax, so I don't think you can do much better from the standpoint of a lens. But everything K-3 and newer has better AF. But the K-3 series high ISO would be a little worse than what you shoot now.

When you are shooting in low light conditions every "little" difference often turns out to be a "big" difference, in that you cross the line where you get bad images, to where you get better mages. But no matter how you do it, low light pushes the limits of your equipment, unless you're using one of the cameras specifically designed for this type of environment.

Like the A7s, or any of these...
https://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/best-low-light-camera/

They left off the Pentax cameras but that's their bad. Pentax low light focus is as good as anyone's. I've been in situations where I was locking focus without issue when the people shooting Canon equipment next to me couldn't lock focus at all and gave up and went back to their cars. And the Accelerator chip on the K-70 and K-P bring them up into the same league as many older FF cameras.


Last edited by normhead; 12-12-2017 at 08:42 AM.
12-12-2017, 08:46 AM   #5
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Awesome info! So my 80-200 sigma AF lens would work with these newer cameras?

---------- Post added 12-12-17 at 08:53 AM ----------

It appears the K-70 is the most affordable. I could probably come out at around $400 out of pocket for that after selling mine.

In what way is the K-70 better than the 50, in brief terms ?
12-12-2017, 09:03 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Your shutter speed probably doesn't have to be 1/500, 1/250 would get you to ƒ4. 1/25 gets you to ƒ5.6.
I would go the other way. I think 1/500 ain't fast enough as on some shots it's visible that it's not fast enough to freeze the action. As lens is already wide open ISO need to be higher for faster exposure. There should be enough DOF at f2.8.

K30 M100/2.8 ISO3200 f2.8 1/1250:


But to me many of the shots look to be out of focus for some reason.
12-12-2017, 09:08 AM   #7
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Newer AF system, Safox X instead of Safox IX

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
EDIT: These are processors not focusing systems sorry for the sidebar - brain glitch!

K-70 uses Prime M II
K-5iis uses Prime II
K-3 uses Prime III
KP uses Prime IV
K-1 uses Prime IV also
K-50 uses Prime M
Newer processer unit... plus the addition of the Accelerator Unit, which helps reduce noise on high ISO images, pixel shift (which I absolutely love for macros , flowers and landscapes. Upgrades in almost every aspect of operation.

Read more here...
Pentax K-70 Review - Features and Highlights | PentaxForums.com Reviews

---------- Post added 12-12-17 at 11:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by iheiramo Quote
I would go the other way. I think 1/500 ain't fast enough as on some shots it's visible that it's not fast enough to freeze the action. As lens is already wide open ISO need to be higher for faster exposure. There should be enough DOF at f2.8.

K30 M100/2.8 ISO3200 f2.8 1/1250:


But to me many of the shots look to be out of focus for some reason.
Yes, that's curious given the shutter speed. And the faster shutter speed is definitely something to experiment with. Back in the day we used to say 1/100s was enough to freeze human self powered action, but if you are trying to use shutter speed to make up for camera movement, you need a lot faster. I'd try stabilizing my camera before I'd boost my shutter speed. If the camera is stable, 1/250s is more than enough to freeze action, but, failing that, a higher shutter speed can help. These days if you can find the sweet spot for your camera's SR you can get away with a lot, but looks to me like the OP is surpassing what the camera can handle.

Making sure focus conformation is on will slow down your burst speed, and take the shutter release out of your hands as sometimes when you push the release, the camera confirms focus before firing the shutter, but in situations like this, given the problems at hand, it might be better to have it turned on. So the AF:S setting should be set to "Focus priority" not "release priority." That might help.

When I shot volley ball before the days of AF I'd generally set my camera to an area a spiker was likely to go up and shoot when they came into that area. But I also was shooting a fast 50 and had court side access, so things were a lot different.


Last edited by normhead; 12-12-2017 at 09:31 AM.
12-12-2017, 09:24 AM   #8
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Indoor gym lighting is not always a worthy scenario for a camera or lens. If you look into buying a camera to replace the one you have, consider the other well lit scenarios (outdoor sports, flash on camera, studio lights, well lit days). You would most likely want to invest in one of the later model cameras to get the performance you need for most situations.
12-12-2017, 09:33 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by C_Jones Quote
Indoor gym lighting is not always a worthy scenario for a camera or lens. If you look into buying a camera to replace the one you have, consider the other well lit scenarios (outdoor sports, flash on camera, studio lights, well lit days). You would most likely want to invest in one of the later model cameras to get the performance you need for most situations.
Understand. The needs of my camera currently are 95% indoor volleyball (my daughter), 5% other stuff. So best performance in the gym is the main driver. And a camera that can compensate for the shortcomings of the user would be welcome!
12-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by TXPentaxK50 Quote
Understand. The needs of my camera currently are 95% indoor volleyball (my daughter), 5% other stuff. So best performance in the gym is the main driver. And a camera that can compensate for the shortcomings of the user would be welcome!
Anyway, lots of good places to start experimenting with... go to a game and just play with stuff, see if you can find settings that work for you. I'd do that before I'd buy a new body although for the low light area you are shooting in newer is better. Low light shooting and higher ISO performance and AF performance have been the focus of improvement the last few years. All of those things would benefit you if attempts to improve technique fail to make a difference.

Another possible issue, I notice you said Sigma 80-200, I assumed you meant 70-200, but maybe you have lanes I don't know about and isn't in the data base. I can't get exif information from your images, so I'm just guessing here.

Last edited by normhead; 12-12-2017 at 09:58 AM.
12-12-2017, 10:28 AM   #11
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All wonderful info! And yes it is a 70-200, sorry about that. It’s a wonderful lens.
12-12-2017, 01:04 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Yes, that's curious given the shutter speed. And the faster shutter speed is definitely something to experiment with. Back in the day we used to say 1/100s was enough to freeze human self powered action, but if you are trying to use shutter speed to make up for camera movement, you need a lot faster. I'd try stabilizing my camera before I'd boost my shutter speed. If the camera is stable, 1/250s is more than enough to freeze action, but, failing that, a higher shutter speed can help.
I guess it depends on what kind of results you want to achieve. On the shots OP linked, where player is hitting the ball, you can see blur due to movement on fingers. If that is OK, then 1/500 is enough. If you like to have more motion visible, you can shoot slower. I personally prefer that everything in the shot is frozen, so when shooting action sports I usually go for 1/1500-1/2000. For floorball I didn't need to go quite that fast. I did try 1/500 to be able to use smaller aperture, but didn't like results and decided I need to shoot faster. But that's just my style, I'm not saying that's the way it needs to be done. Can't comment on shooting on film.
12-12-2017, 02:50 PM   #13
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Do you have the Sigma with built-in stabilization? I don't know what other's have experienced, but I prefer leaving the lens OS off and only using the sensor SR in my K-30. I feel like I get sharper results that way.

I shoot a lot of youth hockey, in crappy rinks and often through the glass. I have found that I can get away with ISO 5000 and even 6400 which lets me stop down to f/3.2. I lean towards a shutter speed of 1/500 with varsity high school kids and that stops much of the movement, but there are elements that are still blurry.. sticks during a shot, snow coming off skates, etc... but I can see the kids faces in the helmets and that's what the parents like. Not sure if the K-50 has the same functionality but, I tend to use center point focus and set my ISO to auto from 100-6400 to let the camera manage that while locking in my shutter speed and aperture. I also set the AE metering to center-weighted. Basically, I want the camera to focus and set ISO based on who I'm pointing at. Then I just track my subjects in the center with a little room to spare and crop/compose in post. Not ideal, but it tends to be good enough to give memories to the parents.

Moral of the story... keep experimenting with settings and technique. Anticipating the play will allow you to eliminate much of the motion blur caused by sudden movements of the camera and let the wonderful Pentax SR do it's job.
12-12-2017, 04:17 PM   #14
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Since i posted this am, I’ve done a lot of reading about the post-K50 Pentax offerings.

I’ve become intrigued with the K-P, even though it’s $1K.

Some of you guys reporting successful shots at ISO 3200 and 6400 makes me drool. It doesn’t seem the K50 is good for much beyond 1600. 2 more stops is HUGE and would allow me to do to 3.2 PLUS more shutter speed.

Is this realistic / over-simplistic? Am I blaming too much on the K50?

I sure appreciate all the feedback.
12-12-2017, 05:26 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by TXPentaxK50 Quote
My images are decent, but I want them better! Should I run a higher ISO to get to 3.2 aperture?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Here is a link to the photos:

Photos from AEV Pre-season Tournament! - SPARK Volleyball Team | Facebook
No--I would not reduce DOF, and also the shutter speed seems OK. Many of the shots are very good, but many would benefit from small adjustment in framing (e.g., cut off feet in otherwise full body shot). It's fine to do a major crop/zoom in, but if getting most of the body, probably want all of it.

---------- Post added 12-12-17 at 05:31 PM ----------

BTW a very high iso (above 1600 typically) is usually not a benefit. First it brings in noise, and second it reduces dynamic range.

Last edited by dms; 12-12-2017 at 05:31 PM.
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