Sharp enough?

bsierens · 11-04-2008, 12:15 PM

Does this picture strike you as sharp? I post-processed as follows included +10 saturation, adjustment of levels, unsharp mask 50%, radius 1, threshold 0. This is a typical workflow for this type of pictures that i found here (Sharpening - Jid Photo)

Your comments are welcome

Also, i find that the saving my PEG file to a JPG file with maximum quality 12, my colours are very bleak once published on the web...

Thanks

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

ftpaddict · 11-04-2008, 12:46 PM

Is it a 100% crop? If it isn't, nobody can tell, really.

Nowhere Matt · 11-04-2008, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Is it a 100% crop? If it isn't, nobody can tell, really.

I have been confused by what is meant by "100% crop". Break it down for me someone, please.

ftpaddict · 11-04-2008, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Nowhere Matt

I have been confused by what is meant by "100% crop". Break it down for me someone, please.

Viewing the image at 1:1 magnification, or as most photo viewers would show - 100%. Basically meaning that any given pixel you see on the screen represents the exact same pixel on the original picture taken.

Don't know how to explain it better. Maybe an example will help.

(just thought of another explanation - just view your image at 100% in your image viewer/editor and crop then)

Below is a screenshot I took. You're seeing a shrunken down version right now.

This now is a 100% crop:

Attached Images

Mindflux · 11-04-2008, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Viewing the image at 1:1 magnification, or as most photo viewers would show - 100%. Basically meaning that any given pixel you see on the screen represents the exact same pixel on the original picture taken.

I'm not so sure you have to be viewing the original image at 100% (1:1). If a 14.6MP image needs to be viewed at say, 60% to fill my full screen but I'm cropping on that image (even though I'm viewing it at 60% original size), am I not still doing a 100% crop? (it's off the original image, even though *I* am viewing it at 60% of it's actual size (NOT A RESIZED/RESAMPLED IMAGE!) just a smaller magnification.

JonPB · 11-04-2008, 02:12 PM

"100%" refers to every pixel in the final image. You have a 14.6MP image on your computer that you're working with. If you upload a 14.6MP copy here, we'd be looking at it 100%; if you upload a 0.5MP copy here, we're looking at a smaller copy. The frame is the same--all of the subject matter is still in the image--but there are far fewer picture elements to show us the subject matter with. We're not in a good position to examine the details of your picture if you're looking at a picture with 30 times more pixels than we are.

"Crop" refers to a portion of the image frame. This doesn't have anything to do with pixel count, dimensions, resizing or resampling. Rather, it has to do with subject matter. If you discarded all of the image from the nose of the plane to the left, that would be a crop. Yes, the image's dimensions, etc, would change, but the pixels that weren't cropped out of the image are unchanged.

The problem with showing details in a picture online is that sharing a 14.6MP image takes up too much bandwidth. That would certainly allow us to examine the details and make a judgment on sharpness, but it wouldn't be much fun to download 5 MB to do so. However, we'd be happy to download a small crop of the image.

"100% crop" or "1:1 crop" refers to a portion of a larger image, but which portion is not resized from the original. Every pixel in that portion of the image is in the 100% crop. This way, you can post a 0.5MP image that shows us how sharp a portion of your 14.6MP image is. Everybody wins.

I hope this helps. :-)

To directly answer your question--100% does not refer to frame size. 100% does not mean "every part of the frame is included." Rather, 100% means "every pixel is included." A 60% view is not a 100% view. If you zoom to 100%, some of the image will be off of your screen; that creates a visual crop of the image.

Try using the "Crop Tool" of whatever image editor you're using. Play around. You'll see what it does. Maybe that will help elucidate things.

Nowhere Matt · 11-04-2008, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by JonPB

"100%" refers to every pixel in the final image. You have a 14.6MP image on your computer that you're working with. If you upload a 14.6MP copy here, we'd be looking at it 100%;

"100% crop" or "1:1 crop" refers to a portion of a larger image, but which portion is not resized from the original. Every pixel in that portion of the image is in the 100% crop. This way, you can post a 0.5MP image that shows us how sharp a portion of your 14.6MP image is. Everybody wins.

I hope this helps. :-)

To directly answer your question--100% does not refer to frame size. 100% does not mean "every part of the frame is included." Rather, 100% means "every pixel is included." A 60% view is not a 100% view. If you zoom to 100%, some of the image will be off of your screen; that creates a visual crop of the image.

Try using the "Crop Tool" of whatever image editor you're using. Play around. You'll see what it does. Maybe that will help elucidate things.

That's just the bit of language that I have issue with. Like when people use to say "a five point oh Mustang"
To me everything is removed from the image if you are saying 100% crop. You have cropped out 100% of the image, leaving nothing to view.
I'm just being a bit of a jackpipe but I push people in these ways when my obsessive/complusive behavior is triggered by things like 100% crop and people from Indiana when they say, "I have no ideal what you are talking about."

Mindflux · 11-04-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by JonPB

To directly answer your question--100% does not refer to frame size. 100% does not mean "every part of the frame is included." Rather, 100% means "every pixel is included." A 60% view is not a 100% view. If you zoom to 100%, some of the image will be off of your screen; that creates a visual crop of the image.

A 60% view is not a 100% view is correct, but you are still using the original image just at a smaller magnification. If I'm viewing the original 14.6MP image at 60% of it's actual size and crop off that, I'm reasonably sure the software is going to crop the 100% image and not your 'to scale' view. This being said, if you are VIEWING at 60% and crop an area and then blow it up to 100% (by now you should be able to view 100% of the area) you should be pixel identical to the same dimensional crop if you had cropped right off 100% magnification view.

*This is based on the assumption that the crop tool isn't cropping the 'compressed' view of the image. Which would just be damned silly.

Damn Brit · 11-04-2008, 05:24 PM

Come on guys, you've hijacked the thread.

bsierens · 11-05-2008, 12:39 AM

Thanks for the comments.
Replying to myself: now that I look at my picture once more, I find that my colours have watered down so much it's almost black and white... Is there something i need to do i particular to keep my colours as much as possible when resizing an image and saving it as jpg?

bsierens · 11-05-2008, 12:49 AM

I'm at work right now, but it definitely wasn't a 100% crop; more like 50% (1:2). With planes, it's best to get most of the frame filled by them, and do the cropping on the spot so as to speak

cupic · 11-05-2008, 04:44 AM

I have used Selby's settings so give them a try

Unsharp options

ppl Amount 150% radius 1 threshold 10
cityscape Amount 65% radius 3 threshold 2
general everyday use Amount 85% radius 1 threshold 4

cheers

Falcons · 11-07-2008, 04:53 AM

Hi Bsierens,
I think you pic looks sharp enough, as to washed out colours are you saving the jpeg for web as SRGB or ARGB - ARGB apparently can give a washed out look.

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11-04-2008, 12:46 PM	#2
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Is it a 100% crop? If it isn't, nobody can tell, really.

11-04-2008, 12:54 PM	#3
Nowhere Matt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nowhere Land Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,362	Originally posted by ftpaddict Is it a 100% crop? If it isn't, nobody can tell, really. I have been confused by what is meant by "100% crop". Break it down for me someone, please.

11-04-2008, 01:05 PM	#4
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by Nowhere Matt I have been confused by what is meant by "100% crop". Break it down for me someone, please. Viewing the image at 1:1 magnification, or as most photo viewers would show - 100%. Basically meaning that any given pixel you see on the screen represents the exact same pixel on the original picture taken. Don't know how to explain it better. Maybe an example will help. (just thought of another explanation - just view your image at 100% in your image viewer/editor and crop then) Below is a screenshot I took. You're seeing a shrunken down version right now. This now is a 100% crop: Attached Images

11-04-2008, 01:44 PM	#5
Mindflux Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 150	Originally posted by ftpaddict Viewing the image at 1:1 magnification, or as most photo viewers would show - 100%. Basically meaning that any given pixel you see on the screen represents the exact same pixel on the original picture taken. I'm not so sure you have to be viewing the original image at 100% (1:1). If a 14.6MP image needs to be viewed at say, 60% to fill my full screen but I'm cropping on that image (even though I'm viewing it at 60% original size), am I not still doing a 100% crop? (it's off the original image, even though I am viewing it at 60% of it's actual size (NOT A RESIZED/RESAMPLED IMAGE!) just a smaller magnification.

11-04-2008, 02:12 PM	#6
JonPB Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 430	"100%" refers to every pixel in the final image. You have a 14.6MP image on your computer that you're working with. If you upload a 14.6MP copy here, we'd be looking at it 100%; if you upload a 0.5MP copy here, we're looking at a smaller copy. The frame is the same--all of the subject matter is still in the image--but there are far fewer picture elements to show us the subject matter with. We're not in a good position to examine the details of your picture if you're looking at a picture with 30 times more pixels than we are. "Crop" refers to a portion of the image frame. This doesn't have anything to do with pixel count, dimensions, resizing or resampling. Rather, it has to do with subject matter. If you discarded all of the image from the nose of the plane to the left, that would be a crop. Yes, the image's dimensions, etc, would change, but the pixels that weren't cropped out of the image are unchanged. The problem with showing details in a picture online is that sharing a 14.6MP image takes up too much bandwidth. That would certainly allow us to examine the details and make a judgment on sharpness, but it wouldn't be much fun to download 5 MB to do so. However, we'd be happy to download a small crop of the image. "100% crop" or "1:1 crop" refers to a portion of a larger image, but which portion is not resized from the original. Every pixel in that portion of the image is in the 100% crop. This way, you can post a 0.5MP image that shows us how sharp a portion of your 14.6MP image is. Everybody wins. I hope this helps. :-) To directly answer your question--100% does not refer to frame size. 100% does not mean "every part of the frame is included." Rather, 100% means "every pixel is included." A 60% view is not a 100% view. If you zoom to 100%, some of the image will be off of your screen; that creates a visual crop of the image. Try using the "Crop Tool" of whatever image editor you're using. Play around. You'll see what it does. Maybe that will help elucidate things.

11-04-2008, 02:37 PM	#7
Nowhere Matt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nowhere Land Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,362	Originally posted by JonPB "100%" refers to every pixel in the final image. You have a 14.6MP image on your computer that you're working with. If you upload a 14.6MP copy here, we'd be looking at it 100%; "100% crop" or "1:1 crop" refers to a portion of a larger image, but which portion is not resized from the original. Every pixel in that portion of the image is in the 100% crop. This way, you can post a 0.5MP image that shows us how sharp a portion of your 14.6MP image is. Everybody wins. I hope this helps. :-) To directly answer your question--100% does not refer to frame size. 100% does not mean "every part of the frame is included." Rather, 100% means "every pixel is included." A 60% view is not a 100% view. If you zoom to 100%, some of the image will be off of your screen; that creates a visual crop of the image. Try using the "Crop Tool" of whatever image editor you're using. Play around. You'll see what it does. Maybe that will help elucidate things. That's just the bit of language that I have issue with. Like when people use to say "a five point oh Mustang" To me everything is removed from the image if you are saying 100% crop. You have cropped out 100% of the image, leaving nothing to view. I'm just being a bit of a jackpipe but I push people in these ways when my obsessive/complusive behavior is triggered by things like 100% crop and people from Indiana when they say, "I have no ideal what you are talking about."

11-04-2008, 02:41 PM	#8
Mindflux Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 150	Originally posted by JonPB To directly answer your question--100% does not refer to frame size. 100% does not mean "every part of the frame is included." Rather, 100% means "every pixel is included." A 60% view is not a 100% view. If you zoom to 100%, some of the image will be off of your screen; that creates a visual crop of the image. A 60% view is not a 100% view is correct, but you are still using the original image just at a smaller magnification. If I'm viewing the original 14.6MP image at 60% of it's actual size and crop off that, I'm reasonably sure the software is going to crop the 100% image and not your 'to scale' view. This being said, if you are VIEWING at 60% and crop an area and then blow it up to 100% (by now you should be able to view 100% of the area) you should be pixel identical to the same dimensional crop if you had cropped right off 100% magnification view. *This is based on the assumption that the crop tool isn't cropping the 'compressed' view of the image. Which would just be damned silly.

11-04-2008, 05:24 PM	#9
Damn Brit Guest	Come on guys, you've hijacked the thread.

11-05-2008, 12:39 AM	#10
bsierens Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aalst, Belgium Posts: 16 Original Poster	Thanks for the comments. Replying to myself: now that I look at my picture once more, I find that my colours have watered down so much it's almost black and white... Is there something i need to do i particular to keep my colours as much as possible when resizing an image and saving it as jpg?

11-05-2008, 12:49 AM	#11
bsierens Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aalst, Belgium Posts: 16 Original Poster	I'm at work right now, but it definitely wasn't a 100% crop; more like 50% (1:2). With planes, it's best to get most of the frame filled by them, and do the cropping on the spot so as to speak

11-05-2008, 04:44 AM	#12
cupic Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Australia-NSW Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,824	I have used Selby's settings so give them a try Unsharp options ppl Amount 150% radius 1 threshold 10 cityscape Amount 65% radius 3 threshold 2 general everyday use Amount 85% radius 1 threshold 4 cheers

11-07-2008, 04:53 AM	#13
Falcons Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Perth Photos: Gallery Posts: 669	Hi Bsierens, I think you pic looks sharp enough, as to washed out colours are you saving the jpeg for web as SRGB or ARGB - ARGB apparently can give a washed out look.