Nature Tell Me Why

MikeMcE · 10-24-2020, 11:31 AM - **1 Like**

You prefer UnCropped

Cropped

Thank You!

Parallax · 10-24-2020, 12:11 PM - **1 Like**

The cropped vs un cropped preference will likely be based on what the viewer sees. That is to say, to me anyway, the cropped is a picture of a bird and the un cropped is a picture of a bird in its environment.
I prefer the un cropped though it might be improved a bit with the bird not quite so centered. I wouldn't stick to the rule of thirds; maybe take just a wee bit off of the right side and bottom.

**Fotus Tuus** · 10-24-2020, 04:43 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MikeMcE

You prefer UnCropped

Cropped

Thank You!

Cut, cut, cut! But...

MikeMcE · 10-24-2020, 09:08 PM

Reason I asked is I usually CUT CUT CUT!!!

So I processed them a bit differently and cropped one.
Thanks for the help!

Hang up and DRIVE!

**dms** · 10-25-2020, 12:38 AM

I suppose it is semantics, but as the 2nd picture is a different image, and thus it may or may not have been cropped. The inference from what is said/shown is misleading.

Oh, you subsequently said they are different images.

**Bruce Clark** · 10-26-2020, 05:21 PM - **2 Likes**

I usually crop every image, even if just to level a horizon, more often to achieve a pleasing composition that was just not possible in camera. I am getting older and less flexible and frequently unable to get exactly the framing I want. It also allows me to remove unwanted elements. I don't carry a full range of focal lengths with me. I don't believe the camera aspect ratio is always the best. I know some folks maintain SOOC is the way to go. I am not one of them. I shoot in raw and the crop tool is just one of the many tools available. Cropping affords many alternative compositions that are simply not possible otherwise.

Nice images by the way.

MikeMcE · 10-26-2020, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Bruce Clark

I usually crop every image, even if just to level a horizon, more often to achieve a pleasing composition that was just not possible in camera. I am getting older and less flexible and frequently unable to get exactly the framing I want. It also allows me to remove unwanted elements. I don't carry a full range of focal lengths with me. I don't believe the camera aspect ratio is always the best. I know some folks maintain SOOC is the way to go. I am not one of them. I shoot in raw and the crop tool is just one of the many tools available. Cropping affords many alternative compositions that are simply not possible otherwise.

Nice images by the way.

Thanks Bruce!
Your description made me look in a mirror, as we might be twins.
I do like the closeup version!

Hang up and DRIVE!

**TDvN57** · 10-27-2020, 10:18 AM - **3 Likes**

Mike, taking pictures of wildlife, especially birds are no easy task. Because you can't pose the birds or direct them to look in a certain direction. You always end up with what the bird was going to give you.

Being able to get these pictures is half the struggle. The next step is extracting the creative story embedded in the picture.

The Herron is looking intensely at something to the left, and that is a story, it draws you to want to know what is it looking at. As the photographer/editor you need to give the picture some space for the story to become visible to the viewer. You could place the bird on the lower right hand third, although I think it might be interesting to go much further. Give it more space to look into by breaking the 'rule' of thirds.

Once you achieve that intrigue, then it is time to deal with the distractions. The background sets the location, but it is over powering. I suggest to bring down the exposure on the background, perhaps even add a blur, and reduce saturation. You could use a brush on Camera Raw or Lightroom.

At the same time increase the exposure of the bird to separate it from the background. The aim is to convert a busy and cluttered picture into a minimalistic piece of art.

If all your lucky stars line up, you may end up with an interesting pose of a Herron staring at something and the viewer is drawn to look in the same direction.

If this picture does not work out, you can always take it as a challenge to go back and take another picture to eventually create that pose and composition.

Hope I could express into written words my intent.

MikeMcE · 10-27-2020, 11:01 AM

Superb explanation. Agreed with all, my issue is (me) struggle to keep it look like a processed silver image, not DSLR that had been photoshopped.
Blurring the background is always a giveaway in EXIF . I’m working more on a tripod setup rather than hand held, but grabbing any sharp image is always good.

I need to up my shooting also , but that’s my current challenge for which I’m good with.

I will play some more with this image. As to what’s bothering it, I suspect the photographer was the primary disruption for interrupting breakfast, as it was turning towards me.

Hang up and DRIVE!

SpecialK · 10-27-2020, 03:03 PM - **1 Like**

The centered subject makes the viewer inspect the surroundings more, which are busy and not particularly interesting. The cropped version puts the emphasis more where it is needed, but the framing could be improved. Bruce's version is probably the best choice - it's all in the face - though I might include more of the back of the neck, too.

**Fotus Tuus** · 11-12-2020, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Bruce Clark

I usually crop every image, even if just to level a horizon, more often to achieve a pleasing composition that was just not possible in camera. I am getting older and less flexible and frequently unable to get exactly the framing I want. It also allows me to remove unwanted elements. I don't carry a full range of focal lengths with me. I don't believe the camera aspect ratio is always the best. I know some folks maintain SOOC is the way to go. I am not one of them. I shoot in raw and the crop tool is just one of the many tools available. Cropping affords many alternative compositions that are simply not possible otherwise.

Nice images by the way.

Yes, yes, yes!

MikeMcE · 11-12-2020, 05:19 PM

I love this forum !
Great Thoughts and creativity.

Hang up and DRIVE!

**MSL** · 11-12-2020, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

I prefer the un cropped though it might be improved a bit with the bird not quite so centered. I wouldn't stick to the rule of thirds; maybe take just a wee bit off of the right side and bottom.

I had a similar reaction. It seemed like there were more creative ways to crop. But the bigger problem with the comparison is that the cropped image is so much darker. It is possible the cropped could win out if it had the same bright tones as the uncropped.

MikeMcE · 11-12-2020, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by MSL

I had a similar reaction. It seemed like there were more creative ways to crop. But the bigger problem with the comparison is that the cropped image is so much darker. It is possible the cropped could win out if it had the same bright tones as the uncropped.

I was trying to isolate the bird from the background. I’m not sure either light or dark solves that .I can say I’ve recropped this bird close to twenty five times, still not happy, but have a wide variety to look at.

I’ve not seen this one or the juvenile since that morning.

Hang up and DRIVE!

**MSL** · 11-12-2020, 06:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MikeMcE

I was trying to isolate the bird from the background.

That's probably going to be a challenge no matter what you do because the bird is sitting in the background. There's no physical separation. Short of brightening just the bird, which would look strange, I'm not sure you can. But there are likely ways to crop that puts the bird off-centre that will make the background less apparent.

10-24-2020, 11:31 AM - 1 Like	#1
MikeMcE Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2020 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,093	Tell Me Why Lens: Pentax HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE Camera: KP Photo Location: Back Yard You prefer UnCropped Cropped Thank You!

10-24-2020, 12:11 PM - 1 Like	#2
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	The cropped vs un cropped preference will likely be based on what the viewer sees. That is to say, to me anyway, the cropped is a picture of a bird and the un cropped is a picture of a bird in its environment. I prefer the un cropped though it might be improved a bit with the bird not quite so centered. I wouldn't stick to the rule of thirds; maybe take just a wee bit off of the right side and bottom. Last edited by Parallax; 10-24-2020 at 12:20 PM.

10-27-2020, 11:01 AM	#9
MikeMcE Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2020 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,093 Original Poster	Superb explanation. Agreed with all, my issue is (me) struggle to keep it look like a processed silver image, not DSLR that had been photoshopped. Blurring the background is always a giveaway in EXIF . I’m working more on a tripod setup rather than hand held, but grabbing any sharp image is always good. I need to up my shooting also , but that’s my current challenge for which I’m good with. I will play some more with this image. As to what’s bothering it, I suspect the photographer was the primary disruption for interrupting breakfast, as it was turning towards me. Hang up and DRIVE! Last edited by MikeMcE; 10-27-2020 at 12:43 PM.

10-27-2020, 03:03 PM - 1 Like	#10
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	The centered subject makes the viewer inspect the surroundings more, which are busy and not particularly interesting. The cropped version puts the emphasis more where it is needed, but the framing could be improved. Bruce's version is probably the best choice - it's all in the face - though I might include more of the back of the neck, too. Last edited by SpecialK; 10-27-2020 at 10:52 PM.

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10-24-2020, 04:43 PM - 1 Like	#3
Fotus Tuus Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Murowana Goślina, Wielkopolska Photos: Albums Posts: 601	Originally posted by MikeMcE You prefer UnCropped Cropped Thank You! Cut, cut, cut! But...

10-24-2020, 09:08 PM	#4
MikeMcE Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2020 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,093 Original Poster	Reason I asked is I usually CUT CUT CUT!!! So I processed them a bit differently and cropped one. Thanks for the help! Hang up and DRIVE!

10-25-2020, 12:38 AM	#5
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	I suppose it is semantics, but as the 2nd picture is a different image, and thus it may or may not have been cropped. The inference from what is said/shown is misleading. Oh, you subsequently said they are different images.

10-26-2020, 05:46 PM	#7
MikeMcE Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2020 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,093 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bruce Clark I usually crop every image, even if just to level a horizon, more often to achieve a pleasing composition that was just not possible in camera. I am getting older and less flexible and frequently unable to get exactly the framing I want. It also allows me to remove unwanted elements. I don't carry a full range of focal lengths with me. I don't believe the camera aspect ratio is always the best. I know some folks maintain SOOC is the way to go. I am not one of them. I shoot in raw and the crop tool is just one of the many tools available. Cropping affords many alternative compositions that are simply not possible otherwise. Nice images by the way. Thanks Bruce! Your description made me look in a mirror, as we might be twins. I do like the closeup version! Hang up and DRIVE!

10-27-2020, 10:18 AM - 3 Likes	#8
TDvN57 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,149	Mike, taking pictures of wildlife, especially birds are no easy task. Because you can't pose the birds or direct them to look in a certain direction. You always end up with what the bird was going to give you. Being able to get these pictures is half the struggle. The next step is extracting the creative story embedded in the picture. The Herron is looking intensely at something to the left, and that is a story, it draws you to want to know what is it looking at. As the photographer/editor you need to give the picture some space for the story to become visible to the viewer. You could place the bird on the lower right hand third, although I think it might be interesting to go much further. Give it more space to look into by breaking the 'rule' of thirds. Once you achieve that intrigue, then it is time to deal with the distractions. The background sets the location, but it is over powering. I suggest to bring down the exposure on the background, perhaps even add a blur, and reduce saturation. You could use a brush on Camera Raw or Lightroom. At the same time increase the exposure of the bird to separate it from the background. The aim is to convert a busy and cluttered picture into a minimalistic piece of art. If all your lucky stars line up, you may end up with an interesting pose of a Herron staring at something and the viewer is drawn to look in the same direction. If this picture does not work out, you can always take it as a challenge to go back and take another picture to eventually create that pose and composition. Hope I could express into written words my intent.

11-12-2020, 04:22 PM	#11
Fotus Tuus Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Murowana Goślina, Wielkopolska Photos: Albums Posts: 601	Originally posted by Bruce Clark I usually crop every image, even if just to level a horizon, more often to achieve a pleasing composition that was just not possible in camera. I am getting older and less flexible and frequently unable to get exactly the framing I want. It also allows me to remove unwanted elements. I don't carry a full range of focal lengths with me. I don't believe the camera aspect ratio is always the best. I know some folks maintain SOOC is the way to go. I am not one of them. I shoot in raw and the crop tool is just one of the many tools available. Cropping affords many alternative compositions that are simply not possible otherwise. Nice images by the way. Yes, yes, yes!

11-12-2020, 05:19 PM	#12
MikeMcE Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2020 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,093 Original Poster	I love this forum ! Great Thoughts and creativity. Hang up and DRIVE!

11-12-2020, 06:06 PM	#13
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by Parallax I prefer the un cropped though it might be improved a bit with the bird not quite so centered. I wouldn't stick to the rule of thirds; maybe take just a wee bit off of the right side and bottom. I had a similar reaction. It seemed like there were more creative ways to crop. But the bigger problem with the comparison is that the cropped image is so much darker. It is possible the cropped could win out if it had the same bright tones as the uncropped.

11-12-2020, 06:15 PM	#14
MikeMcE Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2020 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,093 Original Poster	Originally posted by MSL I had a similar reaction. It seemed like there were more creative ways to crop. But the bigger problem with the comparison is that the cropped image is so much darker. It is possible the cropped could win out if it had the same bright tones as the uncropped. I was trying to isolate the bird from the background. I’m not sure either light or dark solves that .I can say I’ve recropped this bird close to twenty five times, still not happy, but have a wide variety to look at. I’ve not seen this one or the juvenile since that morning. Hang up and DRIVE!

11-12-2020, 06:20 PM - 1 Like	#15
MSL Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Greater Toronto Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,749	Originally posted by MikeMcE I was trying to isolate the bird from the background. That's probably going to be a challenge no matter what you do because the bird is sitting in the background. There's no physical separation. Short of brightening just the bird, which would look strange, I'm not sure you can. But there are likely ways to crop that puts the bird off-centre that will make the background less apparent.