[ncallender]

Hi, I'm working on improving my long lens technique especially with birds. Here's an example of an image I can't decide if I can get better IQ out of. The setup was a KP, DA300, x1.4 and I was resting it on a railing on a solid dock and I believe SR was on. So, it should have been steady enough. I didn't apply any sharpening or NR - just straight out of darktable. I think with only the DA300 I would have gotten a much crisper image. So, what's the feedback?

• This is about what you can expect
• Bird is too far for this setup
• You need a tripod for this to get the ISO way down
• Focus is off
• IBIS should disabled
• Need to buy the 150-450 or DA 560

The light wasn't great - I was shooting with mostly overcast but the hotspot of light in front (so whatever dimensionality there was at the time was backlighting the bird). So, there's a lot more there to improve but I've been wondering from a gear perspective what I should expect with a shot like this. Now, I know I can edit this and make a pretty awesome image for screen viewing, so I'm not complaining but I am hoping to improve my technique to get to a much cleaner starting point.

LINK TO IMAGE

[bertwert]

That's not a bad result, all things considered. I'm wondering if perhaps you missed the focus slightly - to my eyes, the body looks sharper than the beak. That's uncropped from the camera, right? If so, I wouldn't say it's too far away personally, you could easily crop a better composition with plenty of detail to spare - do some NR and maybe sharpen a bit assuming you're using the RAW file. Since you had the lens stabilized on a railing, in this situation I probably would have dropped the shutter speed to 1/350s or 1/250s to be able to lower the ISO as I think that's where you're losing a little bit of detail in the feathers. As far as the lens and TC, I haven't used either (and I am presuming it's the HD Pentax 1.4x?), but I think I've read that you want to stop down at least a full stop when using both to get the detail showing, so that would be f/8 there - however take this with a grain of salt as I could be misremembering... As far as a tripod, I only shoot the A 400/5.6 handheld, which is about the same weight, and regularly down to 1/350s or slower - and SR is always on. The thing here is lots of practice and good handheld technique, bring the camera in tight to your face, elbows tucked in, watch your breathing and so on. Sometimes taking a small burst, even if not needed, will result in one of the middle shots being better than the rest.

[Kiddo70]

A lot depends on where you’re at and how much cover you have. And how much patience you have. I will sit or stand very still in a little cover to get shots of shore birds or ducks as they feed about local ponds. All my shooting is done with the 55-300 PLM or 200 DA*. I don’t use converters. The cameras range from K70s to the new K3iii. With a good lens, IBIS, and f5.6 or 7.1 in morning sun, I can get good shots handheld that will take a lot of cropping to achieve a final image. Big glass would be nice to have but I don’t have the bucks or the desire to carry it at my age. If you’re trying to make money off your images, then it’s a whole different story. To me, there’s nothing better than spending a few hours in the morning sun with what Mother Nature has to offer.

pS: The image is a little soft but with some cropping, it will make a nice photo. Sharpness isn’t everything.

[caliscouser]

The ISO noise is killing a little detail, but not too far off.

I would have tried to shoot this maybe at f/5.6, 1/500s with lower ISO.
You may be a touch front focused, so check your calibration.
I would go -1/3 stop exposure compensation.
Shoot RAW, nice crop, some PP noise reduction and sharpening and you'll have a nice image.

[clackers]

Hi, I'm working on improving my long lens technique especially with birds. Here's an example of an image I can't decide if I can get better IQ out of.

Too far away and ISO 2500 is killing you, Ncallender!

Lot of graininess and sharpening artefacts even in the water, if you zoom in.

[Lowell Goudge]

If you are using IS, I don’t understand why you are shooting at 1/1200.

I shoot 2 combos, a K5 with sigma 70-200/2.8 and 2X TC or K1 MKII with DA560

While I admit the K1 and da560 is way beyond what you have invested in your kit and it delivers much sharper images with similar frame composition, I never shoot at such a high shutter speed and shoot 100% hand held with no monopod or other support.

I shoot typically between 1/640 and 1/800

Same with the K5 and sigma lens+Tc combo, and get sharper results. I would take the shutter speed down, and reduce the iso a little. If you can get better support than free standing, you can go way down in shutter speed, you have a stabilized image system, use it. Don’t worry about subject motion, herons are pretty slow moving, except when they strike, and then you still won’t freeze it with your shutter speed.

Not to boast in my own capabilities but see what you can achieve

just how good is the K7 shake reduction? - PentaxForums.com

The photo in that shot is a 100% crop out of a K7 photo, using a SMC 300/4 and 1.7x af adaptor.

Your camera out performs the K7 in resolution, ISO and shake reduction performance, and I would bet the DA300/4 and Pentax 1.4x TC by and far out perform the 45 year old K300/4 plus 1.7x adaptor.

Work on the technique, as others have suggested, you should get better shots with your combo.

Edit note.

In re reading the posts, you are stabilized on a railing, does that mean the lens directly or your arm. Railings can transmit high frequency vibrations. You are better if you can dampen this out with your body


You should also check out the 300mm plus lens club. There are a lot of posters with your combo


Second edit note

See the attached shot from my K5 with the sigma 70-200/2.8 and 2X TC. Note that the IS is not optimum because the sigma TC does not correct for focal length so the camera things a 200mm lens is connected.
Similarly aperture was set to F4.5 but effective aperture is F9.0 as a gain the TC simply feeds though the data.


This is a heavy crop, at approximately 640x480 out of the K5 image. It shows that yes you can crop heavily

[brewmaster15]

Hi, I'm working on improving my long lens technique especially with birds. Here's an example of an image I can't decide if I can get better IQ out of. The setup was a KP, DA300, x1.4 and I was resting it on a railing on a solid dock and I believe SR was on. So, it should have been steady enough. I didn't apply any sharpening or NR - just straight out of darktable. I think with only the DA300 I would have gotten a much crisper image. So, what's the feedback?

• This is about what you can expect
• Bird is too far for this setup
• You need a tripod for this to get the ISO way down
• Focus is off
• IBIS should disabled
• Need to buy the 150-450 or DA 560

The light wasn't great - I was shooting with mostly overcast but the hotspot of light in front (so whatever dimensionality there was at the time was backlighting the bird). So, there's a lot more there to improve but I've been wondering from a gear perspective what I should expect with a shot like this. Now, I know I can edit this and make a pretty awesome image for screen viewing, so I'm not complaining but I am hoping to improve my technique to get to a much cleaner starting point.

LINK TO IMAGE

Generally I shoot birds at ISO 800 and less..especially something slow moving like a Great Blue Heron...I don't have the KP but on my k-3 v1s' thats worked well for me so I am assuming the KP should work even better. I try and shoot birds also at F8 or less. Why? It just seems to work best for me. On anything less than a 400 mm lens I am hand holding.

I think your image took a hit from the " high" iso plus the railing. I think a steady hand as others indicated would have been better. I am am curious on what you shot? I'm guessing AF? I shoot birds using Spot almost always, it lets me key in on the two aspects I value alot in bird images, feather detail and eyes. I also think when shooting birds like that spot metering can help alot with exposure. That image of yousr looks relatively evenly lit but over exposed.. If you drop down the ISO, spot Af, spot meter and hold steady I think you will possibly feel like you have a new lens without buying one ( the DA*300 is plus TC is a good combo!)

I'm no expert, and certainly not a pro, just sharing what I do.

al

[Roadboat24]

I've tried the same setup, K3 + 300mm + 1.4x. I found the suggestions, already given, helpful, But was never quite satisfied with the results.
I really don't think it was an equipment failure, more my skill.

I'm using the K3 or K1 (in crop mode)+ Pentax 70-200mm + 1.4x and I'm getting better results, maybe I've just practiced enough. But I'm still not very good.

When you get to those focal lengths, DOF gets really shallow even at f8 or f11 and your skill comes into play more-so than otherwise.

Focusing becomes quite difficult, I've seen where I was sure I had focus locked on the eye only to find later it was on a branch 3 inches front or back.

And camera movement/shutter speed changes everything. ISO, like brewmaster15 said, 800 or less.

Search flickr, there are some using this equipment getting great results.
I'm convinced failure is on me and my skill, not the equipment.

[Kiddo70]

Check the images I took of a Roseate Spoonbill and a Great Egret on today’s posted photos. Both of these images were taken with a DA 50-200 f4-5.6. No converter was used despite what the EXIF data says (it’s from my K3iii which is wrong). The images are a little soft because the screw drive lens had a hard time keeping up with the shutter drive, but they still work. Again, big glass is nice but it’s not necessary to produce a memorable image.

[ncallender]

Thanks folks! After looking through the series more, I do think I have a focusing issue. Some were front focused but the majority are back focused. So I think I'll first fine tune at a longer distance and see if that makes a difference. It sounds like I need to work on stability and getting ISO down as well. Unfortunately getting closer is just going to require more time stalking. The birds at this location love to hang out at an island off the shore of this lake so it means if I want to get closer I'm going to need to get on the water somehow. Not sure I'm there, just yet. Thanks for everyone's feedback!

[brewmaster15]

Thanks folks! After looking through the series more, I do think I have a focusing issue. Some were front focused but the majority are back focused. So I think I'll first fine tune at a longer distance and see if that makes a difference. It sounds like I need to work on stability and getting ISO down as well. Unfortunately getting closer is just going to require more time stalking. The birds at this location love to hang out at an island off the shore of this lake so it means if I want to get closer I'm going to need to get on the water somehow. Not sure I'm there, just yet. Thanks for everyone's feedback!

Until you get this worked you may want to use a solid tripod and release.. it will remove one variable. Alternatively if you dont have a good tripod and want to try it.. a sand bag or bean bag on that railing may help.

I would also suggest ditching the tc for now to remove another variable.. work out the technique with just the DA*300 ..once you have that down then experiment with the TC so you can get a feel for what the tc costs you in image loss.

Good luck.I hope you update us.

Al