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06-22-2021, 07:14 PM - 3 Likes   #1
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Daisy Petal Reflections in Rain Drop
Lens: Pentax-M 100mm f/4 Macro + Extension Tubes Camera: K-1 Photo Location: Bell Buckle, TN ISO: 400 Shutter Speed: 1/90s Aperture: F32 

First time posting for critiqueÖ

This was my first attempt at using extension tubes (all 3 at once) on my 100mm macro in the early morning sun after a night of heavy rain. Photography, macro in particular, is a hobby for me and Iím new to macro. I would appreciate any advice regarding this capture as well as anything I could do better next time.

Iíve already figured out that manually shooting hand held (the K-1 is heavy for me) probably causes me to miss captures but I have had bad experiences with tripods in the past so Iím very leery of lugging one around but understand the advantage in shooting macro.

I did post this unedited jpg with a watermark on the FB Pentaxians page (editing will be on the RAW file) and there is a small hair I will have to remove but isnít visible on my camera screen or iphone as they are too small to easily see it. I can do that well. The image is not cropped and is straight from the camera. I do not use a flash, just available lighting.

What caught my eye in particular for this capture was the reflection of the Daisyís petals in the rain drop making it appear milky.

I donít want to over process this RAW file nor do I want to screw up the color. While Iím experienced with PS, Iím still very new to using LR for editing. I always make copies of my RAW files before editing.

Also, Exif data shows this was taken with a 50mm but I totally forgot to increase the lens to 100mm.

Thanks so much for your time.

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06-22-2021, 09:32 PM   #2
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So the daisy we see here is actually a reflection in a raindop? Very impressive if I understood that correctly. The aperture shaped light spots in the front and back bokeh seem to bear that out. And that was a lot of extension that you used.
06-22-2021, 10:50 PM   #3
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I like the composition, but I do miss sharpness in the picture. The DOF is just too narrow for this photo
06-23-2021, 01:37 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I like the composition, but I do miss sharpness in the picture. The DOF is just too narrow for this photo
I feel the other way around, the DOF is fine (and apart from focus stacking not likely to be improved anyway), but the composition is somewhat boring because the main object (water droplet) is too centered for my taste.

Good first attempt though, water droplets on flowers is definitely worthwhile to experiment with further.

06-23-2021, 01:45 AM   #5
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Crop. Too much green on the right and too much gray on the bottom. And also the rules of good form are garbage collection. I don't know what it is, there is something on the petal or dirt on the matrix, but it needs to be removed.
I love the combination of a round drop and pentagonal bokeh.
06-23-2021, 03:09 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I like the composition, but I do miss sharpness in the picture. The DOF is just too narrow for this photo
Agree, photostacking would have been nice, but given the outdoor setting photostacking would be challenging. Bokeh has a wonderful vibe to it although rounded bokeh would look better. Other than that composition is very pleasing, light is wonderful and colours are spot on - TFS.
06-23-2021, 04:52 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
So the daisy we see here is actually a reflection in a raindop? Very impressive if I understood that correctly. The aperture shaped light spots in the front and back bokeh seem to bear that out. And that was a lot of extension that you used.
No the Daisy itself is not the reflection. In the rain drop on the petal, it is reflecting the petals surrounding the petal with the rain drop inside the rain drop. Hopefully that’s a better clarification?

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 04:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I like the composition, but I do miss sharpness in the picture. The DOF is just too narrow for this photo
Thank you regarding the composition. I’m just learning to shoot macro and capturing DOF is a struggle for me. That’s why I am asking for critiques. It’s the only way I know to learn, ask, apply, practice. And what better place to ask for advice than from the forum with a wealth of knowledge, right?

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 05:03 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
I feel the other way around, the DOF is fine (and apart from focus stacking not likely to be improved anyway), but the composition is somewhat boring because the main object (water droplet) is too centered for my taste.

Good first attempt though, water droplets on flowers is definitely worthwhile to experiment with further.
I only have a basic understanding of focus stacking and have not perused that as of this time. DOF is def something I struggle with and I tend to like it very narrow which makes the struggle even more. Any suggestions to achieve a better DOF would be appreciated.

As for the composition, yes, the rain drop is centered as I was intrigued by the reflection in the rain drop, thus it’s prominence. Thank you for suggesting to vary my compositions, I’ll try that in the future.

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 05:10 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fdooch Quote
Crop. Too much green on the right and too much gray on the bottom. And also the rules of good form are garbage collection. I don't know what it is, there is something on the petal or dirt on the matrix, but it needs to be removed.
I love the combination of a round drop and pentagonal bokeh.
Cropping this is def something I can experiment with, thank you for the suggestions.

Could you further explain “the rules of good form are garbage collection” in more detail. Are you referring in a general sense or to this capture itself? (I can be a little dense at times until I understand more clearly).

And I will def clean this up. But I have one more question, and this may be obvious to others, but as I’m totally a hobbyist, what does matrix refer to here?

I like the roundness of the rain drop and the bokeh as well.

Thanks so much!

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 05:17 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by vijaykishan Quote
Agree, photostacking would have been nice, but given the outdoor setting photostacking would be challenging. Bokeh has a wonderful vibe to it although rounded bokeh would look better. Other than that composition is very pleasing, light is wonderful and colours are spot on - TFS.
Any easy to read/understand links to photos stacking? I only have a basic understanding and have never attempted it. But def would love to try it.

I love bokeh and am learning how to correctly use it.

Thank you for liking the composition, lighting and coloring. I do not use a flash, just available lighting and I find white to always be a challenge for me to capture.

For my first attempt with this lens and extension tubes, even given the issues the capture has, I’m pleased with it but knew I could learn to do better in the future.


Last edited by Phyllis; 06-23-2021 at 05:24 AM. Reason: Left out words; typo
06-23-2021, 05:26 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Филлис Quote
Не могли бы вы подробнее объяснить, что “правила хорошего тона-это сбор мусора”? Вы имеете в виду общий смысл или сам этот захват? (Иногда я могу быть немного туповатым, пока не пойму более ясно).

И я все это уберу. Но у меня есть еще один вопрос, и это может быть очевидно для других, но поскольку я полностью любитель, что здесь имеет в виду матрица?
At the top of the image, next to the bokeh, on the petal, there is some kind of debris. It looks like a hair stuck to the photosensitive matrix of your camera. Then you will have to remove the lens and blow gently with air. But not by breathing. But it is possible that it was on the petal itself. In any case, it is perceived as garbage and should not be.

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 05:32 AM ----------

I also noticed that you clamped the aperture to 32. This is not very good. Extreme apertures are not quite optimal in terms of quality. And when using the macro rings, you won't get a significant increase in depth of field. You increased the shutter speed, which is a problem when shooting handheld.

Last edited by Fdooch; 06-23-2021 at 05:34 AM.
06-23-2021, 05:54 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fdooch Quote
At the top of the image, next to the bokeh, on the petal, there is some kind of debris. It looks like a hair stuck to the photosensitive matrix of your camera. Then you will have to remove the lens and blow gently with air. But not by breathing. But it is possible that it was on the petal itself. In any case, it is perceived as garbage and should not be.

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 05:32 AM ----------

I also noticed that you clamped the aperture to 32. This is not very good. Extreme apertures are not quite optimal in terms of quality. And when using the macro rings, you won't get a significant increase in depth of field. You increased the shutter speed, which is a problem when shooting handheld.
Yes, I was made aware of the hair after I posted it in the FB Pentaxians group. Iíve checked other photos taken yesterday morning and have not seen it in those; only shows up in these of the rain drop. I did check the lens, front/back and didnít see it. I can clean the matrix with a blower just to be sure. I really think itís on the petal as I moved around the lens for different perspectives, I can see evidence of it being in each capture. This was taken out in a field so anything is possible.

Thank you so much for the info regarding the aperture and shutter speed, which was actually 1/100 but wasnít an option listed in the pull down menu. I clamped the aperture down because I didnít want to lose what I saw in the rain drop. Both of these are very helpful to make me aware the next time I go out. I honestly had no clue how to use the extension tubes so I will be researching more info regarding their use.

Thanks so much for your time and help.
06-23-2021, 07:12 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Филлис Quote
выдержке, которая на самом деле была 1/100
The macro rings and 100 lens are rather long and unstable designs. And 1/100 is not enough to avoid unsharpness. Therefore, a tripod and a photo with delay or a remote control are necessary
06-23-2021, 11:34 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fdooch Quote
The macro rings and 100 lens are rather long and unstable designs. And 1/100 is not enough to avoid unsharpness. Therefore, a tripod and a photo with delay or a remote control are necessary
Thank you for this info. Having recently purchased my gently used K-1, it has definitely become apparent that a tripod is required with macro. (I seem to like to learn things the hardest, most difficult way!) I have a remote.

In regards to the shutter speed, in this series, I had the camera set to auto for ISO and shutter. My thought was auto would be the best way to capture what I saw as this was all new to me. If possible, what shutter speed would be better for use with the 100mm f/4 macro and extension tubes?

I thank you for your thoughts.
06-23-2021, 12:03 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Филлис Quote
Если это возможно, то какая выдержка лучше подходит для использования с макросъемкой 100 мм f/4 и удлинительными трубками?
I didn't shoot too many close-ups to be an expert. Following logic and based on my own experience, I can give you a couple of tips. The use of macro rings significantly reduces the amount of light. Therefore, I shoot with aperture priority and maximum opening. As I wrote earlier, a pinched hole does not increase the depth of field. To increase it, several shots are taken with different focus points and stitched together by software in post-processing. ISO and shutter speed are variable elements depending on the subject and lighting conditions. Moving subject - decrease shutter speed, increase ISO, or use flash. Fixed Subject - ISO lowered to reduce noise.
06-23-2021, 12:09 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Phyllis Quote
Thank you for this info. Having recently purchased my gently used K-1, it has definitely become apparent that a tripod is required with macro. (I seem to like to learn things the hardest, most difficult way!) I have a remote.In regards to the shutter speed, in this series, I had the camera set to auto for ISO and shutter. My thought was auto would be the best way to capture what I saw as this was all new to me. If possible, what shutter speed would be better for use with the 100mm f/4 macro and extension tubes?I thank you for your thoughts.
When you set your camera to Av with a K or M lens it won't stop down, therefore this image was not taken with an aperture of f32 but f4. You have to use manual or bulb mode on your camera to get it to stop down a lens without an 'A'-setting (or extension tubes that don't offer this connection), use the green button on your camera to meter.

I don't use a tripod for that kind of macro work because it would be too much trouble to set it up every time I see a nice flower or insect, but I also shoot in bright daylight (for bad lit scenes you will need either a tripod or a flash). As for the necessary shutter speed, it's trial-and-error depending on the available light for me (with my old K-3 my limiting factor is the ISO which I try to keep under 3200, with your K-1 you can probably go higher and still get decent results)

edit: I might have read Fdooch's post wrong, but DOF will improve when stopping down the lens, but because of the close distance it won't be by much (with the mentioned focus stacking method you can achieve a greater DOF)

Last edited by othar; 06-23-2021 at 12:24 PM.
06-23-2021, 06:42 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fdooch Quote
I didn't shoot too many close-ups to be an expert. Following logic and based on my own experience, I can give you a couple of tips. The use of macro rings significantly reduces the amount of light. Therefore, I shoot with aperture priority and maximum opening. As I wrote earlier, a pinched hole does not increase the depth of field. To increase it, several shots are taken with different focus points and stitched together by software in post-processing. ISO and shutter speed are variable elements depending on the subject and lighting conditions. Moving subject - decrease shutter speed, increase ISO, or use flash. Fixed Subject - ISO lowered to reduce noise.
Thank you so much for explaining.

---------- Post added 06-23-21 at 06:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
When you set your camera to Av with a K or M lens it won't stop down, therefore this image was not taken with an aperture of f32 but f4. You have to use manual or bulb mode on your camera to get it to stop down a lens without an 'A'-setting (or extension tubes that don't offer this connection), use the green button on your camera to meter.

I don't use a tripod for that kind of macro work because it would be too much trouble to set it up every time I see a nice flower or insect, but I also shoot in bright daylight (for bad lit scenes you will need either a tripod or a flash). As for the necessary shutter speed, it's trial-and-error depending on the available light for me (with my old K-3 my limiting factor is the ISO which I try to keep under 3200, with your K-1 you can probably go higher and still get decent results)

edit: I might have read Fdooch's post wrong, but DOF will improve when stopping down the lens, but because of the close distance it won't be by much (with the mentioned focus stacking method you can achieve a greater DOF)
Ok obviously I need to go back and reread my manual again. I am def taking everyoneís comments and advice and I will figure it out. Thereís a lot to learn and I know just enough to confuse myself apparently. 😆

I enjoy shooting insects and flowers thus my reluctance to use a tripod.

I will also research focus staking in the near future.

Thanks so much.
06-23-2021, 07:49 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Phyllis Quote
Hopefully that’s a better clarification
Thank you. I thought I had it wrong but the apeture-shaped highlights in front of the subject threw me off track.
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