Italy-France kit thoughts and the inevitable upgrade question

Lambic · 01-14-2019, 02:21 PM

Hi all,

I'm travelling with wife and kids to Italy and France this March: Amalfi, Rome, Nice, Paris. While some are suggesting go point and shoot, I find that my best photography moments have been on distant vacations, so I'm thinking I need my DSLR. Here's what I can select from:

DA 16-45 f4
DA 55-300
M 50 f1.7 - hard to work with in terms of metering
M 135 f3.5 - hard to work with in terms of metering

The body is a K10D. I've taken some great shots with it, but it's very out of date, it has a tilted screen (horizon is definitely not level), and I struggle a little with focus issues. The latter I've yet to confirm if it's a back focus issue, operator error, or just a poor AF mechanism.

Scenario 1:
Assuming the timing is terrible to upgrade expense-wise, let's assume I take the K10D. I was thinking the 16-45 for general use, and either the M 50, or pick up a DA 35, or DA 50 for low-light situations. The 135 f3.5 is quite compact and would offer a long option, but being not particularly fast, I think I'd probably still need one of the 50s.

Scenario 2:
I can buy a new K-70 for $730 CAD which frankly is making me drool. It's lighter, smaller, and a huge upgrade in function and IQ over the K10D. Or so I'm told. I would have a hard time justifying the expense, but part of me is thinking how much I treasure my Europe shots and the years between trips seems to be increasing ('95 - '04 - '19)... at this rate, I won't return until 2039! With the K-70, I'd take the 16-45 and the M 135, if I can handle indoors using the better low-light capability of the K-70, or the M 50, if I can't.

Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

MarkJerling · 01-14-2019, 02:40 PM - **1 Like**

While your K10D is a good camera, the K-70 is a big step up. Much bigger files, higher IQ, etc.
Would budget stretch to the KP?

Docrwm · 01-14-2019, 02:51 PM - **2 Likes**

I'd even consider a used K-5II or IIs as those would be a big step up from the K10D. I'd use the extra savings on something wider and something faster in lenses. In my experience in museums and crowded areas 10-14mm is more useful than even 16mm.

jspillane · 01-14-2019, 03:05 PM - **2 Likes**

If your budget is tight, I would look at original K3's. I've seen good bodies go for $350-400, and it would be a considerable step up in operation, handling and resolution.

Personally, when traveling I think less is more. Only bring telephoto lenses if you plan to use them. When I travel with the K1, I often just bring the 43mm LTD. I just did 10 days in London and brought the 31/43/77 kit and... used the 43mm 70% of the time (31mm 25% of the time, 77mm wildly underused at around 5% of total shots.).

**clackers** · 01-14-2019, 03:28 PM

The K-70 would go really well with your 16-45 and say, the DA50 f1.8, Lambic.

It's a good size outfit, remember it's not a dedicated photo trip, you're sneaking in pics while enjoying a family vacation.

**aslyfox** · 01-14-2019, 03:48 PM

Pentax offers a lot of choices

I enjoyed my first DSLR - K 5 II and now the K 3 and K 3 II

be sure to check out the " in depth " and " user " reviews under " Camera " and " Lenses " above

good luck

**pres589** · 01-14-2019, 03:51 PM - **1 Like**

Knowing the budget would help. I'm going to suggest something crazy; K-5 II or IIs, a DA 50 1.8, and a 16-85. The K-5 II/IIs has great low light performance and are pretty affordable on the used market. DA 50 is basically your M 50 1.7 but with auto-aperture and focus making metering no big deal. And the 16-85 for general walk-about with both an almost-ultra-wide to telephoto coverage. I feel like, in cities like that, the 18-135 is going to be not quite wide enough and its performance from 18mm to about 22mm isn't so hot. Otherwise I would suggest that lens. The point here is, with two lenses, you have your travel-portraits and low-light handled by the DA 50, and everything else by a single lens that is weather resistant. The K-5 II is a great camera and buying one used would keep costs down vs. a newer body.

Lambic · 01-14-2019, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

While your K10D is a good camera, the K-70 is a big step up. Much bigger files, higher IQ, etc.
Would budget stretch to the KP?

I'd love to stretch to the KP, but it's a huge difference in price in Canada, at least at the moment. K-70 is on-sale for $730, while the KP is $1080. I think I might be able to manage the K-70, but at $1200 after taxes, I can't see the KP being an option. While I enjoy the hobby, I seem to rarely get the chance to shoot these days. I have read about the superior build and features of the KP, but the K-70 seems a more rational fit.

**c.a.m** · 01-14-2019, 04:09 PM

@Lambic, depending on your risk tolerance, you may wish to consider buying a used kit, as suggested by @pres589 above.

For example, there's a complete kit offered in the PF Marketplace: Pentax K-5 II Kit + (1400 shutter count) - PentaxForums.com

K-5 II, DA 18-135mm and DA 50/1.8. That would be a great compact travel kit. The DA 18-135mm is well-regarded by many forum members here, it's water-resistant, and gives a good range of focal lengths. The K-5 II is also a very fine camera, albeit two generations old now.

Please note that I'm not associated with the seller of that offer, nor am I vouching for the credibility of the seller or the quality of the gear. It's just an example of what could be found on the used market.

For used camera stuff you buy from US sellers, you will not pay any duty but you'll likely pay Canadian HST on imports valued greater than about CAD $100.

**c.a.m** · 01-14-2019, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Lambic

The body is a K10D. I've taken some great shots with it, but it's very out of date, it has a tilted screen (horizon is definitely not level), and I struggle a little with focus issues. The latter I've yet to confirm if it's a back focus issue, operator error, or just a poor AF mechanism.

I was just thinking about your K10D. Despite it's age, we still see very fine images on the Forum taken with that camera. Its CCD sensor produces rich images at the lower ISO levels. If you're generally satisfied with the images you get, but are experiencing some issues, perhaps members of the forum here could provide some troubleshooting assistance.

Lambic · 01-14-2019, 05:44 PM

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

That K-5ii package is a remarkable fit to my needs, I have to admit! However, it's 5-6 year old technology and after conversion to Canadian dollars, it's close to $700. Yes, the included lenses are worth quite a bit, but if I'm spending $700, I would think a new K-70 with warranty for $730+tax makes more sense, doesn't it? Also, I have a 16-45mm lens that, while perhaps not as highly regarded as the 18-135, is still decent.

My gut feeling was to go no further back than K-3ii (or K-3).

Sandy Hancock · 01-14-2019, 06:10 PM

From everything I've read about the K-70 I would definitely recommend it. It shares a lot of core technology with my KP, which I absolutely love (and took to Italy in the summer of 2017).

Your 16-45 and 55-300 will make a very versatile combination. If green button metering gets you down, investing in a DA50/1.8 would be a good cheap option for low light and shallow DoF when wanted.

I'd want something a bit wider than 16mm, but it would do at a pinch.

MarkJerling · 01-14-2019, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Lambic

I'd love to stretch to the KP, but it's a huge difference in price in Canada, at least at the moment. K-70 is on-sale for $730, while the KP is $1080. I think I might be able to manage the K-70, but at $1200 after taxes, I can't see the KP being an option. While I enjoy the hobby, I seem to rarely get the chance to shoot these days. I have read about the superior build and features of the KP, but the K-70 seems a more rational fit.

That's a bit of a difference in cost. I'd go with the K-70 in that case.

dstar · 01-15-2019, 04:31 AM

You have lenses So look option rent camera just body
Price for Pentax K5 not very high less 100$ for week

**pres589** · 01-15-2019, 07:41 AM

Here's the logic behind the kit I suggested; a single lens that covers just about all of the focal lengths you care about with a single lens. The problem I would have with a 16-45 would be the -45 part; it's just not that far reaching. It's also not weather resistant. You have a lot of improvement made with that 55-300 but there's a lens change involved right around a really useful focal range. For me, I would be interested in having a do-all zoom that's pretty high quality instead of needing two zooms to cover the meat of "what matters" in fields of view for the kind of trip it sounds like you're taking.

I also have no issue with the IQ and general performance of my K-5 II and would happily take it with me tomorrow if I were going on a vacation.

Renting might be a nice solution. If renting either a lens or a body helps make it happen, a 16-85 and a KP would be excellent. Couple extra batteries and SD cards and you're set. I still like the idea of having a DA 50 1.8 in my pocket if you're using a modern DSLR unless you really want to deal with stop-down metering. The M 50 1.7 is maybe my favorite lens on my k-mount film camera but I don't love manual focusing without better focusing aids on my K-5 II.

01-14-2019, 02:21 PM	#1
Lambic Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 95	Italy-France kit thoughts and the inevitable upgrade question Hi all, I'm travelling with wife and kids to Italy and France this March: Amalfi, Rome, Nice, Paris. While some are suggesting go point and shoot, I find that my best photography moments have been on distant vacations, so I'm thinking I need my DSLR. Here's what I can select from: DA 16-45 f4 DA 55-300 M 50 f1.7 - hard to work with in terms of metering M 135 f3.5 - hard to work with in terms of metering The body is a K10D. I've taken some great shots with it, but it's very out of date, it has a tilted screen (horizon is definitely not level), and I struggle a little with focus issues. The latter I've yet to confirm if it's a back focus issue, operator error, or just a poor AF mechanism. Scenario 1: Assuming the timing is terrible to upgrade expense-wise, let's assume I take the K10D. I was thinking the 16-45 for general use, and either the M 50, or pick up a DA 35, or DA 50 for low-light situations. The 135 f3.5 is quite compact and would offer a long option, but being not particularly fast, I think I'd probably still need one of the 50s. Scenario 2: I can buy a new K-70 for $730 CAD which frankly is making me drool. It's lighter, smaller, and a huge upgrade in function and IQ over the K10D. Or so I'm told. I would have a hard time justifying the expense, but part of me is thinking how much I treasure my Europe shots and the years between trips seems to be increasing ('95 - '04 - '19)... at this rate, I won't return until 2039! With the K-70, I'd take the 16-45 and the M 135, if I can handle indoors using the better low-light capability of the K-70, or the M 50, if I can't. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

01-14-2019, 04:09 PM	#9
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	@Lambic, depending on your risk tolerance, you may wish to consider buying a used kit, as suggested by @pres589 above. For example, there's a complete kit offered in the PF Marketplace: Pentax K-5 II Kit + (1400 shutter count) - PentaxForums.com K-5 II, DA 18-135mm and DA 50/1.8. That would be a great compact travel kit. The DA 18-135mm is well-regarded by many forum members here, it's water-resistant, and gives a good range of focal lengths. The K-5 II is also a very fine camera, albeit two generations old now. Please note that I'm not associated with the seller of that offer, nor am I vouching for the credibility of the seller or the quality of the gear. It's just an example of what could be found on the used market. For used camera stuff you buy from US sellers, you will not pay any duty but you'll likely pay Canadian HST on imports valued greater than about CAD $100. Last edited by c.a.m; 01-14-2019 at 04:15 PM.

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01-14-2019, 02:40 PM - 1 Like	#2
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	While your K10D is a good camera, the K-70 is a big step up. Much bigger files, higher IQ, etc. Would budget stretch to the KP?

01-14-2019, 02:51 PM - 2 Likes	#3
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	I'd even consider a used K-5II or IIs as those would be a big step up from the K10D. I'd use the extra savings on something wider and something faster in lenses. In my experience in museums and crowded areas 10-14mm is more useful than even 16mm.

01-14-2019, 03:05 PM - 2 Likes	#4
jspillane Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 45	If your budget is tight, I would look at original K3's. I've seen good bodies go for $350-400, and it would be a considerable step up in operation, handling and resolution. Personally, when traveling I think less is more. Only bring telephoto lenses if you plan to use them. When I travel with the K1, I often just bring the 43mm LTD. I just did 10 days in London and brought the 31/43/77 kit and... used the 43mm 70% of the time (31mm 25% of the time, 77mm wildly underused at around 5% of total shots.).

01-14-2019, 03:28 PM	#5
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	The K-70 would go really well with your 16-45 and say, the DA50 f1.8, Lambic. It's a good size outfit, remember it's not a dedicated photo trip, you're sneaking in pics while enjoying a family vacation.

01-14-2019, 03:48 PM	#6
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	Pentax offers a lot of choices I enjoyed my first DSLR - K 5 II and now the K 3 and K 3 II be sure to check out the " in depth " and " user " reviews under " Camera " and " Lenses " above good luck

01-14-2019, 03:51 PM - 1 Like	#7
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Knowing the budget would help. I'm going to suggest something crazy; K-5 II or IIs, a DA 50 1.8, and a 16-85. The K-5 II/IIs has great low light performance and are pretty affordable on the used market. DA 50 is basically your M 50 1.7 but with auto-aperture and focus making metering no big deal. And the 16-85 for general walk-about with both an almost-ultra-wide to telephoto coverage. I feel like, in cities like that, the 18-135 is going to be not quite wide enough and its performance from 18mm to about 22mm isn't so hot. Otherwise I would suggest that lens. The point here is, with two lenses, you have your travel-portraits and low-light handled by the DA 50, and everything else by a single lens that is weather resistant. The K-5 II is a great camera and buying one used would keep costs down vs. a newer body.

01-14-2019, 03:53 PM	#8
Lambic Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 95 Original Poster	Originally posted by MarkJerling While your K10D is a good camera, the K-70 is a big step up. Much bigger files, higher IQ, etc. Would budget stretch to the KP? I'd love to stretch to the KP, but it's a huge difference in price in Canada, at least at the moment. K-70 is on-sale for $730, while the KP is $1080. I think I might be able to manage the K-70, but at $1200 after taxes, I can't see the KP being an option. While I enjoy the hobby, I seem to rarely get the chance to shoot these days. I have read about the superior build and features of the KP, but the K-70 seems a more rational fit.

01-14-2019, 04:33 PM	#10
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	Originally posted by Lambic The body is a K10D. I've taken some great shots with it, but it's very out of date, it has a tilted screen (horizon is definitely not level), and I struggle a little with focus issues. The latter I've yet to confirm if it's a back focus issue, operator error, or just a poor AF mechanism. I was just thinking about your K10D. Despite it's age, we still see very fine images on the Forum taken with that camera. Its CCD sensor produces rich images at the lower ISO levels. If you're generally satisfied with the images you get, but are experiencing some issues, perhaps members of the forum here could provide some troubleshooting assistance.

01-14-2019, 05:44 PM	#11
Lambic Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 95 Original Poster	Thanks for your thoughts, guys. That K-5ii package is a remarkable fit to my needs, I have to admit! However, it's 5-6 year old technology and after conversion to Canadian dollars, it's close to $700. Yes, the included lenses are worth quite a bit, but if I'm spending $700, I would think a new K-70 with warranty for $730+tax makes more sense, doesn't it? Also, I have a 16-45mm lens that, while perhaps not as highly regarded as the 18-135, is still decent. My gut feeling was to go no further back than K-3ii (or K-3).

01-14-2019, 06:10 PM	#12
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	From everything I've read about the K-70 I would definitely recommend it. It shares a lot of core technology with my KP, which I absolutely love (and took to Italy in the summer of 2017). Your 16-45 and 55-300 will make a very versatile combination. If green button metering gets you down, investing in a DA50/1.8 would be a good cheap option for low light and shallow DoF when wanted. I'd want something a bit wider than 16mm, but it would do at a pinch.

01-14-2019, 06:18 PM	#13
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by Lambic I'd love to stretch to the KP, but it's a huge difference in price in Canada, at least at the moment. K-70 is on-sale for $730, while the KP is $1080. I think I might be able to manage the K-70, but at $1200 after taxes, I can't see the KP being an option. While I enjoy the hobby, I seem to rarely get the chance to shoot these days. I have read about the superior build and features of the KP, but the K-70 seems a more rational fit. That's a bit of a difference in cost. I'd go with the K-70 in that case.

01-15-2019, 04:31 AM	#14
dstar Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 475	You have lenses So look option rent camera just body Price for Pentax K5 not very high less 100$ for week

01-15-2019, 07:41 AM	#15
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Here's the logic behind the kit I suggested; a single lens that covers just about all of the focal lengths you care about with a single lens. The problem I would have with a 16-45 would be the -45 part; it's just not that far reaching. It's also not weather resistant. You have a lot of improvement made with that 55-300 but there's a lens change involved right around a really useful focal range. For me, I would be interested in having a do-all zoom that's pretty high quality instead of needing two zooms to cover the meat of "what matters" in fields of view for the kind of trip it sounds like you're taking. I also have no issue with the IQ and general performance of my K-5 II and would happily take it with me tomorrow if I were going on a vacation. Renting might be a nice solution. If renting either a lens or a body helps make it happen, a 16-85 and a KP would be excellent. Couple extra batteries and SD cards and you're set. I still like the idea of having a DA 50 1.8 in my pocket if you're using a modern DSLR unless you really want to deal with stop-down metering. The M 50 1.7 is maybe my favorite lens on my k-mount film camera but I don't love manual focusing without better focusing aids on my K-5 II.