Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-15-2019, 02:39 PM   #16186
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 537
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Most discussions on this get thrown out as being more of the Pentax is doomed aspect, but in all seriousness they're doing nothing at moment.
I'm sitting on a K-3 and a K-S1 and have little to tempt me to upgrade.

I'm looking at purchasing a camera for the kids and Pentax isn't featuring on any radar. I'm definitely looking at devices with good video capabilities too.
Long gone are the days where you need a separate dedicated camera for both functions.
Modern cameras are more than good enough for both roles, packing sensors much larger than older handicam devices and feature benefits like selfie screens and face tracking autofocus etc.

Stills IQ wise my Pentax cameras are great, but I don't see much of a future to be honest. That saddens me, but I don't want to get carried away in brand loyalty emotions.
I think it's not just Pentax - there's actually an issue that the whole camera market has matured and I can't think of a lot of new features I'd want that don't already exist in a model made by some brand or other.

Pentax certainly has limitations when it comes to video, and there does seem to be better tracking AF in other makes, but as far as stills go, I can't think of a lot extra that I'd need for what I do than what I can achieve with my K-70, apart from maybe better high ISO performance, but then there's the K-1 II for that, so Pentax's limited lineup has my interests in still photography covered.

I likely will stick with Pentax for a while, and the DA* 50-135 2.8 is on my future shopping list, as it covers a sweet spot in focal lengths for portraits, and it doesn't appear other mounts have anything current in a similar range for APS-C (I guess it's about equivalent to 70-200 on FF of which there are plenty of options.)

I have considered something that I can use more for video, and I think Panasonic would be my top pick in that respect, but 4K or 8K video don't really interest me as I'd need to buy a new PC and a new TV to get any benefit from them, and to be perfectly honest, probably a trip to the optometrist, as my organic lenses have a little bit of an issue with focus at a distance. Finding somewhere where I could actually situate a 4K TV where a) I can actually see the entire screen and b) I can actually resolve the increased resolution might be a challenge, and if I throw 'upgrade the house' into the equation, then the cost of a new camera ends up the least of my problems.
I think I'd be perfectly happy to stick to full HD 1080P video, so long as a camera does it well, eg things like dynamic range, high frame rate, tracking AF would be more useful to me than higher resolution.

08-16-2019, 04:42 AM   #16187
Pentaxian
Clarkey's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brampton, ON, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,996
QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
I was in Vanuatu last week at a major conference I attend each year. I took my Panasonic G9 along to film the trade stands as an experiment, I am very happy with the video I got. I was using a Deity D3 Pro as the mic, and very happy with that too. On Friday we went around the island for some sightseeing and I used the G9 for stills photos. It worked fine as well - I have the Panasonic Leica 12-60 f2.8-4 zoom for travel and video, so it is a good quality lens. I got plenty of nice images. Have to say I still like what the Pentax K-3 and DA20-40 give me better for stills, but I do not carry 2 cameras when travelling - so the Panasonic is it for the moment.

I am also just watching what is happening with Pentax over the next 6-12 months. Most of my FF lenses are manual focus, so I wouldn't lose very much adapting them to a FF mirrorless body. I still like the idea of a K-1 for landscapes, but time will tell
Interesting and am likewise around Pentax. I have been very close to pulling the trigger on a G9 about three times (but have just upgraded my computer instead). At $1600 Canadian ($700 off to be competitive with Fuji, etc.). a solid, lighter body with good video features (as well as pixel shift for resolution, body stabilization, etc.).
That being said, the other option is to get a one inch sensor cam. I haven't posted much yet from Japan, but ended up taking a ZS200 (HX1, whatever) and my Ricoh GR to Japan hiking and was very happy with the results/weight. At least on par with my old K7 in terms of stills quality.

---------- Post added 08-16-2019 at 07:46 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwizinho Quote
...
I have considered something that I can use more for video, and I think Panasonic would be my top pick in that respect, but 4K or 8K video don't really interest me as I'd need to buy a new PC and a new TV to get any benefit from them, and to be perfectly honest, probably a trip to the optometrist, as my organic lenses have a little bit of an issue with focus at a distance. Finding somewhere where I could actually situate a 4K TV where a) I can actually see the entire screen and b) I can actually resolve the increased resolution might be a challenge, and if I throw 'upgrade the house' into the equation, then the cost of a new camera ends up the least of my problems.
I think I'd be perfectly happy to stick to full HD 1080P video, so long as a camera does it well, eg things like dynamic range, high frame rate, tracking AF would be more useful to me than higher resolution.
There's some good choices out there for this. Price-wise the Panasonic GX85 and Canon M50/100 are right there for system cams, or the "1 inch" crowd are also quite good if you can get a plug in mic.
08-16-2019, 03:29 PM   #16188
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
zkarj's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wellington
Posts: 749
QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
What is the point of a major upgrade if there is no significantly improved sensor available to upgrade to.
While the sensor is the core of the camera, there is a LOT more that Pentax could do beyond that. Whether it needs new hardware, or simply the guts to redo the software, I'd like a good, practical video function. I'm sure there are other things they could do both in software and improving the hardware without the need to do 'the megapixel thing'. Numerous companies have put cameras on smart devices (phones), but barely anyone has thought to put smart devices on cameras.

The unfortunate truth is that most people think a phone is good enough and that has diminished the market for compact cameras which, I think, was the main pool of potential customers for DSLRs, when they found the limits of their fixed lenses and constraining software.

There's plenty of scope to make big advances in DLSR technology just like there was scope to take PCs beyond 640K.
08-16-2019, 06:20 PM   #16189
Pentaxian
richandfleur's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,650
QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
While the sensor is the core of the camera, there is a LOT more that Pentax could do beyond that.
Exactly.


QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
Numerous companies have put cameras on smart devices (phones), but barely anyone has thought to put smart devices on cameras.
Well that's kind of what we're seeing in mirrorless though, with the likes of eye AF and tracking capabilities etc.
Where AF was once considered a weakness of mirrorless, it's now quite stunning what they can do.

08-16-2019, 06:45 PM   #16190
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
zkarj's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wellington
Posts: 749
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Where AF was once considered a weakness of mirrorless, it's now quite stunning what they can do.
Granted, things are moving along in the mirrorless world. But it makes me wonder why that's not happening so fast in the DSLR world. Market perception, perhaps? I.e. DSLRs are for "serious" photographers who "don't need" eye tracking.

Thinking further on this, what I'd really like to see is a DSLR that can stand somewhat on its own, but which I can dock my phone into to take it to the next level. I have a stunning amount of power and versatility in my phone today if that could be teamed up with the stunning amount of resolving power of a DSLR... wow!

For now, all I get is a dodgy Pentax app that needs wifi, which slaughters the camera battery. It can't even pull RAW files off the camera.
08-16-2019, 08:45 PM   #16191
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 537
QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
While the sensor is the core of the camera, there is a LOT more that Pentax could do beyond that. Whether it needs new hardware, or simply the guts to redo the software, I'd like a good, practical video function. I'm sure there are other things they could do both in software and improving the hardware without the need to do 'the megapixel thing'. Numerous companies have put cameras on smart devices (phones), but barely anyone has thought to put smart devices on cameras.
Interesting point there. I've mentioned in this forum before how I was interested in the Olympus TG-6, as although it's only a compact and small sensor, it's waterproof, shoots raw, has built in focus stacking, and has a number of environmental sensors, not just GPS.
For natural history, having the potential to capture all this environmental data is pretty useful, and I think add on to this smart device functionality so that people can write their own apps to do stuff with images directly on camera rather than passing off to a phone could make for some exciting possibilities with cameras in future.
The constraints of phones are always going to impose limitations on their optical performance although computational imaging is getting better at working around these, however putting smart capabilities on a camera that doesn't have to fit in your pocket could make for some really interesting possibilities.

I notice there is an SDK for selected Pentax cameras that supports both wifi and USB connections, that maybe could be interesting for some custom applications. Unfortunately the USB SDK doesn't appear to support Android or iOS otherwise that could make for some interesting applications if coupled with a phone's own camera to make decisions about image acquisition, but using the advanced optics of the DSLR.
08-16-2019, 09:34 PM   #16192
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
zkarj's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wellington
Posts: 749
I saw something recently which looked promising to combat one of the limitations of a smartphone camera. It is possible to extend the length of the optical train by means of 45 mirrors. So imagine the light entering a front element on the back of the phone, as now, then hits a 45 mirror and traverses vertically down inside the phone body before hitting another 45 mirror and then the sensor. Of course there are still severe space constraints in all other dimensions, but I thought that was ingenious to get around one limitation.
08-16-2019, 10:25 PM   #16193
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 537
QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
I saw something recently which looked promising to combat one of the limitations of a smartphone camera. It is possible to extend the length of the optical train by means of 45 mirrors. So imagine the light entering a front element on the back of the phone, as now, then hits a 45 mirror and traverses vertically down inside the phone body before hitting another 45 mirror and then the sensor. Of course there are still severe space constraints in all other dimensions, but I thought that was ingenious to get around one limitation.
Ironic that they've just figured out that that reflecting light through different angles might be useful for smartphones, when a similar principle is what the pentaprism did decades ago for SLRs.

It's interesting to think how it might apply to phones. Maybe a workable optical zoom? The sensor size would still be limited I guess, but an optical zoom with no extra size or external moving parts could be pretty interesting.

08-17-2019, 03:49 AM   #16194
GUB
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
GUB's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wanganui
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,499
QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
While the sensor is the core of the camera, there is a LOT more that Pentax could do beyond that.
The last time they upgraded the K-1 without upgrading the sensor it achieved worst new model of the year award for its lack of technical advancement.
It seems that upgrading video could come at the cost of still image IQ. Iso invariance / dynamic range for example.
Mirrorless has its own compromises - I can't believe the crap they overlay on the sensors for user convenience. And it would bring on the risk of a new mount.
Yes they could improve AF but please not at the cost of a new system with new mount.
If there is one area of potential it would be to try to reduce or find a way around the cursed shutter shock.
The crazy thing is the K1 is now three to four years old and it can still stand shoulder to shoulder with the D850 and the Z7 .
If the new sensor is as rumoured then we are into another era. It is not just the megapickles but 16 stops of Dynamic Range. And if history is anything to go by by the time the pentax techs have finished with it they will have another stop or so.
08-17-2019, 02:22 PM   #16195
Kiwi Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
NZ_Ross's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Timaru
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,538
QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
The crazy thing is the K1 is now three to four years old and it can still stand shoulder to shoulder with the D850 and the Z7 .
If the new sensor is as rumoured then we are into another era. It is not just the megapickles but 16 stops of Dynamic Range. And if history is anything to go by by the time the pentax techs have finished with it they will have another stop or so.
I have been doing a bit of camera product reading this morning. It seems to me, what you purchase is determined by your use case. DP Review type reviewers seem to be reviewing cameras across all use cases, which is fair enough at one level, but to write off or mark down a superb landscape camera because it isn't a good sports action camera seems a bit silly. If landscapes is your main use, then you have different choices to sports.

Cameras are continuing to differentiate to fill specialist niches. From my observation the Pentax K-1 and K-1 II are very good landscape cameras. Not the best - that would be the specialist medium format cameras (but they are a whole different price level for the camera and lenses) but I would think good enough for most reasonable applications.

Do they need new sensors - probably in time as sensors work their way up to 100MP, but do we really need 100MP for our photography, that is the more interesting question
08-17-2019, 03:22 PM   #16196
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
zkarj's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wellington
Posts: 749
QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
If landscapes is your main use, then you have different choices to sports.
Hmmmm.... not sure I'm happy to fit into a niche...



QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
Do they need new sensors - probably in time as sensors work their way up to 100MP, but do we really need 100MP for our photography, that is the more interesting question
Time to upgrade my storage solution again, then. 130 MB RAW files...
08-17-2019, 10:15 PM   #16197
Kiwi Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
NZ_Ross's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Timaru
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,538
QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
Hmmmm.... not sure I'm happy to fit into a niche...
And therein lies the problem that Pentax maintaining their user base as technology progresses

QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
Time to upgrade my storage solution again, then. 130 MB RAW files...
Yup!!
08-17-2019, 11:08 PM   #16198
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Waikikamukau
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,033
QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
And therein lies the problem that Pentax maintaining their user base as technology progress
.....slinks off unwanted with his K200D.....
08-18-2019, 12:13 AM   #16199
Kiwi Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
NZ_Ross's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Timaru
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,538
QuoteOriginally posted by bobD Quote
.....slinks off unwanted with his K200D.....
Nah, I am also quite happy with my K3 Bob, just not shooting 4K stabilised video on it - I have brought a different tool to achieve that job
08-18-2019, 03:09 AM - 2 Likes   #16200
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Blenheim
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 537
All this talk of Pentax going nowhere...
Mine has just been up a mountain.
Sigma 10-20 4-5.6 10mm @ f10.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aperture, bit, bobd, camera, display, ear, flickr, jun, k1, k5, kiwi, lens, lenses, new zealand, nz, pentax, pentaxians, photos, pig, pm, post, results, ross, saturation, sharpness, theatre, time, weeks, whanganui, yesterday
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kiwi Newbie :) Heidi Welcomes and Introductions 15 01-13-2011 09:04 PM
Another Kiwi has landed zk-cessnaguy Welcomes and Introductions 5 11-22-2010 05:00 AM
Another G'Day from an Oz Kiwi Tonto Welcomes and Introductions 4 04-26-2010 12:44 AM
Hi From yet another Kiwi Scott NZ Welcomes and Introductions 4 06-14-2009 07:24 PM
Kiwi sharp shooter (aspirations...) K-xx-500-user Welcomes and Introductions 11 10-07-2008 09:26 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:06 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top