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05-16-2021, 03:30 PM   #17521
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Have you heard of or used Turboprint? I'm considering buying a licence, but have to figure out all of the profiles, etc. It does work for local printers, but the colours were off.
No, once I got the virtual set up I have never looked around. My biggest issue is likely to be when the drivers stop working on XP. It takes maybe 10 seconds to boot into XP so not much difference to having a printing programme. The XP machine I have set up would be over 5 years old -
I just clone it across to a new Linux build when I wish. It is rock stable.

05-16-2021, 04:15 PM   #17522
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Just to jump in. Depends on the motherboard. I built my first PC for of the kids for Christmas. My B450M has multi-generation support for Gen 1-3 chips, which I eventually intend to make use of.
Due to the chip and graphic card shortage, I could only get a 2nd gen Ryzen and older RX580 graphics card.
Thanks for that link it helped.
So if I was to do a build I see these as a valid choice for a budget / performance setup. Am I on track for compatibility ?
The one thing I am not sure about is how much emphasis I should be putting on the single core performance with today's programmes. It seems like some processes are still single core based but there is a lot of confusion out there.
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05-16-2021, 06:18 PM   #17523
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
No, once I got the virtual set up I have never looked around. My biggest issue is likely to be when the drivers stop working on XP. It takes maybe 10 seconds to boot into XP so not much difference to having a printing programme. The XP machine I have set up would be over 5 years old -
I just clone it across to a new Linux build when I wish. It is rock stable.
Yeah, I might do the same. The only issue when I have created a VM using VirtualBox was configuration of the USB pass- throughs for the aged Konica Minolta scanner and Canon printer. What are you using for virtualization?

---------- Post added 05-16-2021 at 09:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Thanks for that link it helped.
So if I was to do a build I see these as a valid choice for a budget / performance setup. Am I on track for compatibility ?
The one thing I am not sure about is how much emphasis I should be putting on the single core performance with today's programmes. It seems like some processes are still single core based but there is a lot of confusion out there.
Glad it helped. I am certainly not a pro on this (that was the first PC I had built in 7 years or so), and I am actually using a Coffee Lake NUC with the 35watt chip in it as my daily driver. In short, yes, single cores are still important, but less if the program uses the GPU, or performance can be managed by RAM, etc.
Looking at what I use a PC for and assuming that you have a half decent (4-8Gb) graphics card, that is going to take a lot of the load off. I found that the 5 series Ryzen chips (the new one is the 5600X) are a good blend of performance and power management with 6 cores as against 4 at the same model/price point (as against the 8 cores you are looking at). Note also the power consumption difference! You also get a cooler in the box too and my one works quite well.

Edit: Yes, the ASUS you have quoted look pretty good. I forgot to ask whether you are doing ATX or mATX.

Last edited by Clarkey; 05-16-2021 at 06:39 PM.
05-16-2021, 06:57 PM - 1 Like   #17524
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Yeah, I might do the same. The only issue when I have created a VM using VirtualBox was configuration of the USB pass- throughs for the aged Konica Minolta scanner and Canon printer. What are you using for virtualization?
First of all a Linux Host (obviously). I use Virtualbox but it is sourced from Virtualbox and not from the Ubuntu repositories. There used to be a big difference in USB capability between the two - not sure if that is still the case. But yeah inter-connectivity is the issue, whether it be USB or accessing file systems. For printing I have a simple link to my edits folder from where I drag my final image files to the xp desktop.
I have recently had issues accessing the printer but I think it all came from discovering that Linux text printing was good enough from my ip8700 Canon printer. The cups driver that were activated to do this interfered with the virtual connectivity. So the printing needs to be exclusively XP.


Last edited by GUB; 05-16-2021 at 07:04 PM.
05-16-2021, 07:03 PM   #17525
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
throughs for the aged Konica Minolta scanner
I use an old Canon multifunction as a scanner and I find the Linux "simple scan" is satisfactory and refreshingly simple. But that is for simple tasks.
05-16-2021, 07:30 PM   #17526
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
I found that the 5 series Ryzen chips (the new one is the 5600X) are a good blend of performance and power management with 6 cores as against 4 at the same model/price point (as against the 8 cores you are looking at). Note also the power consumption difference! You also get a cooler in the box too and my one works quite well.
Yeah - thanks for the insight. Trouble is by the time I get around to a step up things will have changed again. But that 5600X is bleeding edge.
ATX motherboard
GTX 1050ti 4gb GPU
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05-16-2021, 10:42 PM   #17527
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
What is the story about sockets on AMD - do they (or the motherboard) get constantly obsolete like intel?
From my limited market overview, AMD has been better in maintaining a good socket type life.

In contrast, Intel has pulled a fast one, AFAIC, when they changed the socket type from your Kaby Lake CPU to the Coffee Lake CPUs. Intel decided to make a lot of motherboards obsolete by claiming they would not be able to deliver enough power to the next generation CPUs. With a decent motherboard and some modifications, you can make a Coffee Lake CPU run on the prior generation motherboards just fine, though.

Watch this space, though, as Intel has been struggling to switch to a better process node for comical amounts of time now and AMD has been making big gains in terms of obtaining market share with their recent CPU releases. Their CPUs generally offer more cores at a given price point and hence are very competitive in production workflows. Intel has been holding on to the "gaming crown" by being the best at single core performance but even that advantage has waned recently. I think it is not unlikely for Intel to become more accommodating in the near future and for AMD to not try so hard anymore. Just speculation, though.


Last edited by Class A; 05-16-2021 at 11:11 PM.
05-16-2021, 11:10 PM   #17528
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
The one thing I am not sure about is how much emphasis I should be putting on the single core performance with today's programmes.
There aren't that many applications where high core counts can truly make an impact.

Consider Amdahl's law which points out that for any application that requires N % of sequential computation, your maximum speed up through parallelisation is 100/N, e.g., for 10% of sequential computation remaining, you'll get an absolute hard maximum of a 10 times speed up (with an infinite amount of cores).

While there are some applications that allow high amounts of paralleisation, AFAIC these are the outliers rather than the norm. Even if some computation supports parallelisation in principle, the question is whether the software exploits that to the extent possible. However, if you frequently use one of those applications which scale well with the number of cores, you obviously stand to gain a lot by using CPUs with higher core counts, in particular if the latter aren't that more expensive than their lower core count siblings.

FWIW, game performance traditionally did not scale well at all with higher core counts. Only the recent use of numerous AI-controlled NPCs and in general programming targeting multi-core CPUs has caused games to somewhat benefit from CPUs with higher core counts.
05-17-2021, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #17529
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Not bad for 15W I guess.
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05-17-2021, 02:56 AM   #17530
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QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
Not bad for 15W I guess.
I am due for a new MacBook Pro later this year, so I will be interested to see what gets announced mid-year, a M1X or M2 chipset.
05-17-2021, 03:28 AM   #17531
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QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
Not bad for 15W I guess.
It is the single thread rating that is impressive
05-17-2021, 02:44 PM   #17532
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
There aren't that many applications where high core counts can truly make an impact.
So on single core count this i9 11900F is probably about the sweet area price / performance.
Motherboards seem to be about the same price vs AMD.
Given that my current i7 7700 has single core performance 2400 these ones in the 3000s would be the only real step up.
It is nice to know my choice from a couple of years ago is still very valid.
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05-19-2021, 05:46 PM   #17533
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Saw this NZ link recently.
Might be keen to give Flight Sim a go again after all those years.

My $0.02 on the PC aspect is by the time you want to upgrade, you're probably into new power supply/motherboard/RAM material anyway.
Likes of HDDs can be added along the way, but my personal use case scenario is to run a device between say 5 - 10 years, and then upgrade again at that point.
For me I sell the old one and buy new, so the concept of CPU upgrades and a need for a motherboard to be compatible etc never come into it.
By the time I get to renewing, the tech has changed and is no longer compatible.

Single core capabilities is still really important for most things.
I'd suggest checking out Puget System for really quality information about new technology and it's impact on photo and video editing software. You'll likely find it Adobe orientated (suits me fine) but the concepts and breakdowns are really excellent, and stand out in a sea of gaming orientated reviews and tests. Their reviews were one of the deciding factors for me opting for a 3060TI card over the larger 3070, as the cost difference just didn't out way the small increase in performance. Also good to see a breakdown of just which actions/effects utilised the GPU, as not everything is offloaded for separate processing yet.

One other thing to be weary of is balancing your spend on components. It really is a balancing act between cpu power and GPU power and then PSU capability and often overlooked the ability to keep it all cool so it can run at the stated speeds without thermal throttling. GPUs have come a long way recently, but are subject to global shortages. I'd recommend checking out prebuilts on offer from likes of Dell to get access to new components at a reasonable price and availability. Takes a bit of the risk out of a home build too, but as always keep an eye out for where/how they've cut corners.

Hopefully I can get a stable lightroom app back soon. Had it for 2 years or so solid and only recently plunged back into the bad old days of brutal system hangs. Premiere by contrast is still chugging on very nicely.
I realised those that I'd rather inadvertently switched to 4K footage from GoPro and iPhone over the last few holidays and that's why reviewing footage is really struggling. I could use proxies to help or hope the new machine coming just eats this up easily.
05-19-2021, 08:41 PM   #17534
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
My $0.02 on the PC aspect is by the time you want to upgrade, you're probably into new power supply/motherboard/RAM material anyway.
Likes of HDDs can be added along the way, but my personal use case scenario is to run a device between say 5 - 10 years, and then upgrade again at that point.
The incentive for me to upgrade was going to the K-1 and especially stepping up to Gimp 2.10 , floating bit. Gimp 2.10 in itself pretty well soaked up all gains when stepping up from a Intel dual core to the i7 -7700 with twice (16gb) the ram.
It is certainly hard to know what processes benefit from better GPU. That link suggested that adobe is not particularly dependant.
Looks like that RTX is around $1000 - it is a bit hard to fork out that much for something you don't really know the bang for buck on in your system.
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
It really is a balancing act between cpu power and GPU power and then PSU capability
That is another mark against getting too carried away with a GPU - it is the power hog in a modern system.
One of the great visible stepups in performance of course is a ssd drive. But in reality sure it means your programme opens quickly but does it make your processing any faster? (apart from swap)
05-20-2021, 02:24 AM - 1 Like   #17535
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SSD is a must have though, for program files and for disk cache/swap files etc.

They’re not that expensive for decent sizes now so all good. I still have old school mechanical for big data drives though.

Been interesting coming back to look at the scene now and finding AMD significantly ahead on intel cpus now. I stay with Nividia for gpu as they seem to align better with Adobe which I use.
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