[MarkJerling]

This one is recommended for todays best buy...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/114/277990550_9866dfa9a7.jpg

Nice one, thanks Bob! (Do we measure that in candles or matches?)

---------- Post added 11-06-14 at 12:27 PM ----------

Have you seen my Cactus RF60 flash and my Cactus V6 radio trigger reviews?

These reviews do not only evaluate the gear but also provide some information about flash photography with Pentax gear.


Yes and there is a big price gap between P-TTL ("Pentax capable") and manual gear.

The current Pentax flash models are insanely expensive and you should only get them if you desperately need weather-resistance. Even then, you should ask yourself how many times you can actually make flash during rain look good and whether you don't want to protect your flashes in some other (cheap) ways.

Affordable P-TTL flashes are made by Metz, for instance. Unfortunately, in the past their flashes could not be used as an HSS-master (an on-camera flash that controls other flashes in HSS-mode). I don't know whether they have addressed this in the meantime.

Everything else being equal, I'd avoid Sigma, because their flashes tend to be slightly incompatible with third-party gear.


To P-TTL or not to P-TTL, this is the question.

P-TTL gives you the following:

1. Automatic exposure control. The camera and flash work together to work out the appropriate power level for the flash.
2. HSS. The camera will allow you to use sync-speeds above 1/180s.
3. Second-curtain sync. The camera will trigger the flash shortly before closing the shutter (as opposed to shortly after opening it).

Regarding automatic exposure control: Many flash photographers use manual control even if their flashes support automatic exposure control because the results are more predictable and consistent.

If you are using P-TTL, any change in the scene may impact on the overall exposure, e.g., someone with a white shirt walking into the scene may cause other faces to become underexposed, etc. P-TTL has proven to be problematic with the K-5 (II) as it has an overexposure bug and while the K-3 fixed that, it introduced a shutter lag with P-TTL.

In the past, manual flash photographers had to pay the price of needing to walk up to their flashes every time they wanted to change power levels. With the advent of remote-controlled flashes like the YN560-III, V850, or RF60, manual flash photography has become hugely more convenient and much faster.

Another problem is that for P-TTL to work, the flash needs to be connected to the camera as there are no radio P-TTL triggers for Pentax. So you always have to carry both camera and flash around.

Furthermore, P-TTL is very outdated and cannot control multiple flashes well. There is a "contrast" mode that sets one flash to 1/3 of the overall power and another one to 2/3 of the overall power, but that's it. With manual control, you can set ratios of multiple flashes just as you need them.

Having said all that, if you are doing event photography with quickly changing scenes, P-TTL will probably come in handy because you may not be able to keep up changing your flash levels manually quickly enough.

Regarding HSS: With Pentax cameras currently the only way to use HSS is by using an HSS-capable flash connected to the camera. Once you have one of these, you can use a few selected flashes to fire them in HSS mode, i.e., it is not necessary to spend P-TTL money on all flashes involved. The Godox V850 and the Cactus RF60 support manual HSS. I described the manual HSS concept for the RF60 and am not sure what limitations you may hit with the Godox V850. Bdery did a homepage review for the V850, but IIRC he did not expand on the manual HSS feature.

BTW, the Cactus V6 can also be used in a manual HSS setup.

Regarding second-curtain sync:
You need this to obtain motion trails that look right. My explanation of the second-curtain sync emulation on the RF60 contains a sample image.

The manual emulation of second-curtain sync by using a manually set delay time (both RF60 and V6 support trigger delays) is cumbersome and unless you plan ahead, will take quite some time to figure out on the spot.


See above for how V6 and RF60 support HSS, but as I said currently the only way to get a trigger signal from the camera once the shutter speed is beyond 1/180s is to use an HSS-capable flash connected to the camera. So you'd need at least one of these (does not need to be HSS-master capable).

ND filters are an alternative to achieving the same effect, but you may have to use multiple flashes to compensate for the light loss. Make no mistake, though, HSS also requires more flash power than usual. A flash's HSS output is equivalent to (brief) constant lighting and shutter speeds beyond 1/180s will diminish the contribution this light can make to the exposure. At 1/8000, you are getting 5 1/2 stops less output from your flash compared to 1/180s. So ND filters are not the only flash power suckers.


Have a look at my flash comparison, it may help you to come to a decision.

Although the Yongnuo prices are tempting, I would avoid their products. It is a very closed system with unnecessary incompatibilities within their own product range. Although their reliability has apparently become better over time, I'm convinced you'll have a better experience with slightly more upmarket gear (both in terms of failure rate and in case something goes wrong).

I personally think the Cactus gear is really nice (if you don't need/want P-TTL). Cactus thinks backward compatibility is important so your gear will most likely play with future gear. They have considerably expanded their dealer network (in addition to selling online) and I've heard that in Canada you get three years of warranty on Cactus gear.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

If you plan a trip to Wellington, let me know, and you can play with the Cactus gear I have.

I've just had another read of your posts and, really, you are the guru!

[richandfleur]

Do you mean sort of like this?
Outdoor Glamour Portrait Shoot For Magazine Feature Using Sony a6000 - YouTube
His happy result was 1/1250 sec. You can't hope to get anywhere near that can you with HSS ?
He didn't seem to elaborate on flash to subject distance or flash output which would surely be 2 important variables ?

Yeah that's the sort of thing I've seen and like the look of. Background darkened, subject illuminated via off camera flash triggered wirelessly.
Only way I can think to recreate that with a 1/180th second shutter speed limit is via an ND filter to drop the background down.


Sounds like to do HSS on my K-30 I'll first need a HSS capable flash mounted on the camera body. From then I can set that to not contribute to the shot, but instead to trigger off camera HSS flashes.
That sounds like a lot of money for what is really going to be used as a HSS wireless trigger 'commander'/master etc.
New to all this, but that sounds like a stupid restriction for Pentax bodies?


I could see with all the variables at play that users could often resort to manual settings to get some control over the situation if the metering is a bit difficult on the day.


What a huge area to get into!

[GUB]

Yeah that's the sort of thing I've seen and like the look of. Background darkened, subject illuminated via off camera flash triggered wirelessly.
Only way I can think to recreate that with a 1/180th second shutter speed limit is via an ND filter to drop the background down.


Sounds like to do HSS on my K-30 I'll first need a HSS capable flash mounted on the camera body. From then I can set that to not contribute to the shot, but instead to trigger off camera HSS flashes.
That sounds like a lot of money for what is really going to be used as a HSS wireless trigger 'commander'/master etc.
New to all this, but that sounds like a stupid restriction for Pentax bodies?


I could see with all the variables at play that users could often resort to manual settings to get some control over the situation if the metering is a bit difficult on the day.


What a huge area to get into!

Yeah it is all new stuff to me and quite interesting. A bit more research and it appears that HSS is quite capable of 1/1250- (is that right class A?)
It must be quite technical as it is flashing different sections of the sensor separately.
Of course the GUB approach is to wait till nite

[Class A]

I like the idea of relighting a scene, Gary Fong styles / darkening the background via higher shutter speed, and feel HSS would be necessary for this.

You only really need HSS if you want the combination of

1. shooting in bright ambient light, and
2. very shallow depth of field.

Gary got his final look with 1/1250s, but he was at ISO 400. If he dropped the ISO to 100, he could have shot with 1/312s or with ISO 80 (K-5 (II)) he could have used 1/250s.

Perhaps 1/180s would have already allowed an overexposed shot that could be pulled back in post. I doubt he would have lost highlight details.

Add an ND filter, and you are golden.

Alternatively, you could stop down a bit more (say, f/5.6) and just lose a bit of the shallow DOF. Or, as very cleverly pointed out by GUB: Shoot when the ambient light is a bit less bright (allowing you to drop the shutter speed to sync-speed levels).

If you can underexpose a shot using 1/180s (max.) by using low ISO and stopping down then you can achieve the look you are after by adding flash. You can try that at home now. Only if you really want a wider aperture then you'd have to use an ND filter or use HSS.

Off camera does appeal,

On-camera flash sucks unless you bounce it off nearby surfaces.

I would encourage you embrace the idea of off-camera flash from the get go. At least plan for it.

I feel the stylised look is more what I'll use it for, but also know that some general fill diffused light would be useful as we head towards Christmas etc, which is often a lot of inside type photos.

Taking inside shots with off-camera flash is a lot of fun.

Whether it is off-camera or on-camera, always bounce it or use (big) light modifiers.

Please do me a favour and do not buy a Gary Fong diffuser.

1. They don't work on their own. They depend on surrounding surfaces. Outdoors, they are useless.
2. You can build one yourself out of a milk bottle.

They only use I have for a Gary Fong style diffuser is to spread the light inside a softbox.

Class A, what non Pentax flash would you recommend as a good HSS master/on camera HSS flash to take the lead/by first.

I haven't looked at such models in detail because I'm a manual flash shooter.

Matt Miller kept a P-TTL flash resource on the web. He does not maintain it anymore, but probably you'll still find it useful.

Unless you want to buy multiple HSS flashes -- unless nomen est omen, I would not recommend that -- you don't need a flash that can act as an HSS-master; simple HSS-capability is sufficient. I'd therefore wouldn't hesitate to get a Metz.

Maybe I'm jumping ahead presently, I'll go and read all the links and see how alive I feel by the end of that.

I think you are jumping ahead.

I'd first try go see what I can achieve with non-HSS flash. I'd recommend to get a model that you can remote control from your camera position.

You may find that you can do everything you want without getting an HSS flash. I don't want to talk you out of getting an HSS flash, but I'd keep on reading a bit more, if I were you.

Don't forget that HSS means you are losing flash power as you increase the shutter speed and you'll be fighting bright ambient light, so chances are you may need more than one HSS flash to come up with the power, in particular if you are using light modifiers or bounce, because both these approaches to get soft light eat power.

Two manual flashes with HSS mode are much more affordable than two HSS-capable P-TTL flashes.

[Class A]

I've just had another read of your posts and, really, you are the guru!

Thanks!

[Class A]

New to all this, but that sounds like a stupid restriction for Pentax bodies?

Yes, it is a stupid restriction.

One can argue it is meant to prevent people from getting black bars in their images when they unwittingly exceed the sync-speed.

One could also argue it helps Pentax to sell HSS flashes as people cannot use the usual workarounds such as HyperSync and manual HSS.

One can keep ones fingers crossed that some day a radio trigger that pretends to be an HSS flash will be released for the Pentax system as well (they do exist for Canikon).

[Class A]

A bit more research and it appears that HSS is quite capable of 1/1250- (is that right class A?)

Yes, you can go up to the maximum shutter speed with HSS.

It must be quite technical as it is flashing different sections of the sensor separately.

The flash produces a burst of quick pulses, essentially emulating a constant output.

It only needs to last for the duration of the sync-speed, i.e., the time the shutter slit needs to travel from top to bottom, but still that takes away from the maximum power and of course narrower shutter slits (higher shutter speeds) mean that less flash light hits the sensor.

Of course the GUB approach is to wait till nite

+1

[richandfleur]

Of course the GUB approach is to wait till nite

That's not as silly as it may be intended to sound.
Given the power loss of the HSS mode it might just be that you have to be realistic about time of day/ ambient direct sunlight etc. Too much and you won't be able to overpower it, cheaply at least.

---------- Post added 11-06-14 at 03:57 PM ----------

Just wanted to say that I am taking this in Class A and do appreciate the comments.


Radio triggers are looking pretty appealing at the moment. I'm looking at ND filters, possibly Variable ND filters for video work (where you essentially can't modify the shutter speed from say 1/50) as I often want narrow depth of field shots outside in daylight conditions. This leads to blown highlights very easily, and Pentax's video ability leaves very little wiggle room in post production.


Off camera flash, (triggered either via radio trigger or non contributing on camera flash ?) and ND filters could probably achieve a very similar look for less money than a Pentax branded flash, whilst still staying in the Pentax world (as opposed to jumping ship to Sony...)


Status: Still reading...

[GUB]

It only needs to last for the duration of the sync-speed

But wouldn't the bursts have to be super accurately timed so that no section of the sensor got more or less than its share? If that is right then it does not surprise me that it would be an item that is restricted to the camera maker.
Na I think I get it now--= there are millions of bursts over the period of curtain travel?

[bobD]

@GUB

there are millions of bursts over the period of curtain travel

Just like real life !...in the evenings when I close our curtains as the sun sinks slowly below the horizon, heralding yet again the end of another day's toil and strife, but behold after a deathly interval of morbid absence, yea verily, again "there are millions of bursts over the period of curtain travel" and lo and amazed a new day is apparent, rich with the promise of fresh learnings ..etc...etc...blah..blah...blah


My 'devils' (advocate ?) post.... think about it..

[Transit]

don't take the blue pills

[bobD]

Single ND filters seem to go for about $60-70 NZ but DealExtreme have a variable for not much at all...
Neutral Density ND2-ND400 Fader ND Filter (77mm) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

anyone care to comment ?? I have no experience with ND filters so your advice is most welcome..
Or is this perhaps the 2 polarisers back to back trick ??

[Kiwizinho]

Single ND filters seem to go for about $60-70 NZ but DealExtreme have a variable for not much at all...
Neutral Density ND2-ND400 Fader ND Filter (77mm) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

anyone care to comment ?? I have no experience with ND filters so your advice is most welcome..
Or is this perhaps the 2 polarisers back to back trick ??

DX have some cheap stuff but it has limitations. I bought one of their variable ND filters and it works fine as long as you don't try to use it near the stronger end of its range. I've heard some people say up to about ND8 I think I've had acceptable results a bit higher, but don't expect it to work well anywhere near ND400 as you'll get horrible results.
As for other stuff on DX, I bought a universal remote for cameras for something like $2. Much cheaper than an official Pentax one, only catch is it was so cheap the solder that held the battery connector on was missing so it wouldn't work till I pulled it apart and soldered it together properly, but it's worked a treat since.

[Transit]

Neutral Density ND2-ND400 Fader ND Filter (77mm) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
fixed

had no idea a variable ND existed !
now if they only made one for this

[bobD]

Neutral Density ND2-ND400 Fader ND Filter (77mm) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
fixed

? am I missing something..

now if they only made one for this

Isn't it called water..?

had no idea a variable ND existed !

DIY...http://petapixel.com/2010/08/27/how-to-build-a-cheap-and-simple-variable-neu...ensity-filter/