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01-08-2018, 01:39 PM   #14656
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Yeah I don't get the small and lightweight angle for mirrorless that much, because as you say, you still have to slap a lens on there. The only definite space you can save over DSLRs is the mirror box area, where the optical preview mirror flaps around.

There's no reason why mirrorless cameras have to be small and without a large DSLR style grip either. I guess the Panasonic G85 vs GX85 is an example of this, where it's similar specs, but in a compact vs large/traditional DSLR style body. I hesitate to write that though, as 'traditional' DSLRs had a mirrorless/no grip design anyway. eg Pentax K1000

The real benefits to me are knowing exactly what the camera is seeing (rather than an optical preview), tracking AF that goes right across the sensor/field of view, eye detect AF, digital zoom and with focus peaking for nailing focus etc. The Pentax K-70 picked up on sensor phase detect AF points, but I'm not really sure what they're doing with them or how well it's been implemented by Pentax in Live View/Video modes.

Sony do APS-C sensors, pretty much the same as what's in our Pentax cameras. M4/3 is not that much smaller really than APS-C either, if you want to go Olympus or Panasonic. DSLR and Mirrorless both have real mechanical shutters.

IQ wise mirrorless doesn't have to be any different. I mean all DSLR's go 'mirrorless' when they take their shots and mirror is lifted up and out of the way. They're full time 'mirrorless mode' in Live view and video modes.

As above though, I prefer the optical viewfinder, but can see the benefits of an EVF at times also.
I use the K1 as a mirrorless. The little eyecap is on the eyepiece and I have a lcd viewfinder loupe permanently attached. I alternate between the mechanical shutter and the E one though - the E shutter delay is offputting.

01-08-2018, 01:46 PM   #14657
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QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
I had another play with the M200 wide open. Still finding my feet with it, but holy moly look at this creamy bokeh...
Nice one.
Portraits next. (leading eye and nose in focus)
01-08-2018, 01:49 PM   #14658
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QuoteOriginally posted by zkarj Quote
I had another play with the M200 wide open. Still finding my feet with it, but holy moly look at this creamy bokeh...
Damn that's nice!

---------- Post added 01-09-18 at 09:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
I use the K1 as a mirrorless. The little eyecap is on the eyepiece and I have a lcd viewfinder loupe permanently attached. I alternate between the mechanical shutter and the E one though - the E shutter delay is offputting.
Do you use the digital zoom to help focus manually? I find that super handy and use it a lot for static landscape work etc on a tripod.

If I challenge my thoughts on this, I've always said it's the final image that counts to me, and I don't really care how one gets there. That was usually in regards to photoshop but I feel it applies equally to the camera technology.
I prefer an optical viewfinder, but given it's actually all the same under the hood, (meaning DSLR vs Mirrorless ILC and not vs cell phone), it's maybe akin to a manual vs automatic gearbox on a car that's otherwise identical.

I would want a viewfinder though, as the stance to look at the rear screen is not very stable, and the rear screen is poor during strong sunlight.

I wouldn't be against a Pentax mirrorless camera, so I could use all my existing autofocus lenses. Am very much considering a new camera for video, given Olympus, Panasonic and Sony now all offer options with real mechanical sensor stabilisation, and my Pentax lenses could be adapted to fit cheaply - albeit without autofocus and maybe without aperture control depending on the complexity of the adaptor. Pentax was once up with the leaders in video, offering sensor stabilisation in video many many years ahead of the rest.

Last edited by richandfleur; 01-08-2018 at 02:15 PM.
01-08-2018, 02:20 PM - 1 Like   #14659
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Do you use the digital zoom to help focus manually? I find that super handy and use it a lot for static landscape work etc on a tripod.
Yes for the shots that I can afford the time on. Of course focus peaking too. But things like closeups there is no substitution for quantity - take plenty of shots and hopefully one will be in focus across the optimum plane.

01-08-2018, 03:06 PM   #14660
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Yeah I don't get the small and lightweight angle for mirrorless that much, because as you say, you still have to slap a lens on there. The only definite space you can save over DSLRs is the mirror box area, where the optical preview mirror flaps around.

There's no reason why mirrorless cameras have to be small and without a large DSLR style grip either. I guess the Panasonic G85 vs GX85 is an example of this, where it's similar specs, but in a compact vs large/traditional DSLR style body. I hesitate to write that though, as 'traditional' DSLRs had a mirrorless/no grip design anyway. eg Pentax K1000
.
The Olympus E-M1 & Panashon GH5, G5 have DSLR style grips, plus in terms of size advantage, when i bought my OM-D, i was also seriously considering the Sony A99, Canon 5D, and K-3 but the overriding factor for me is I mountain bike a little bit and carry a camera, but i also have shoulder & back issues, so weight and size are important. My complete OM-D kit of body, with battery grip, 2 lenses and a flash comes in at under 1.5kg, and the 2 lenses give me a 35mm equiv FOV of 24-600mm using 12-50mm & 75-300mm lenses. To do that with an SLR, Sony cant do that as their longest A mount lens is 400mm. Plus to even do a 2 lens kit with 24-400mm in Canon/Nikon/Sony i would be looking at around 4.5-5kg in weight without adding a battery grip or flash. Plus the entire OM-D kit goes in a 20L camelpak with room to spare for jackets, first aid kits etc when i go riding. Oh, and the other bonus, Video is so much easier than using most DSLRs with mirrorless as Mirrorless cameras & lenses are generally designed to do both with full AF from lenses, which again for me reduces the need to carry a video camera around too

Last edited by Kiwi645hauler; 01-08-2018 at 03:12 PM.
01-09-2018, 12:58 AM - 1 Like   #14661
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
I wouldn't be against a Pentax mirrorless camera, so I could use all my existing autofocus lenses. Am very much considering a new camera for video, given Olympus, Panasonic and Sony now all offer options with real mechanical sensor stabilisation, and my Pentax lenses could be adapted to fit cheaply - albeit without autofocus and maybe without aperture control depending on the complexity of the adaptor. Pentax was once up with the leaders in video, offering sensor stabilisation in video many many years ahead of the rest.
Just to add to this conversation - we have a Panasonic GH5, and brought a Pentax adaptor for it, so we could use my Pentax primes on it. With focus peaking, and focus magnification the Pentax primes work very well with the video functions on the GH5.
01-09-2018, 01:39 AM   #14662
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QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
Just to add to this conversation - we have a Panasonic GH5, and brought a Pentax adaptor for it, so we could use my Pentax primes on it. With focus peaking, and focus magnification the Pentax primes work very well with the video functions on the GH5.

Very nice!


I'm at a bit of a cross roads. I would like to stay with Pentax, but they're not really producing the products that I want.
With cameras improving dramatically over the last 10 years, I would be happy with a camera that is capable enough for both video and stills.
I'm invested heavily in Pentax, and want to be able to use the lenses and bodies I have for video work, using sensors stabilisation in both etc, but Pentax have not reviewed their video offering in 6 years now, and that's just crazy.


I think mirrorless will be the future, but I'm not rushing to get there, but there's no reason Pentax can't up their video game a bit on a DSLR. Nikon for example has done this very successfully on their recent cameras.
Given the mirror has to be up for live view/video, I'd be up for a Pentax mirrorless, a modern K-01 if you will.
I want IBIS much more than I want 4K for example. It's sad that this is available on many other cameras now, but not the brand who has been doing sensor based stabilisation for 10 years or so.

01-09-2018, 01:56 AM - 1 Like   #14663
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
I want IBIS much more than I want 4K for example. It's sad that this is available on many other cameras now, but not the brand who has been doing sensor based stabilisation for 10 years or so.
That is the beauty of the GH5 - you get IBIS, 4K and a whole lot of other video goodness...

Very nice camera.

I am still using my K3 for stills, but we have a Sony EX1 and now the GH5 for dedicated video work. The GH5 also takes very nice stills.

Last edited by NZ_Ross; 01-09-2018 at 01:59 AM. Reason: added more info
01-09-2018, 02:12 AM   #14664
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TVSN are right now showing a Pentax sales feature again. This time it is about a K-70 bundle.
01-09-2018, 04:15 AM   #14665
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
TVSN are right now showing a Pentax sales feature again. This time it is about a K-70 bundle.
Santa got me this for Xmas. Came with a Sigma 18-125mm, table tripod,and camera bag. There were some SD cards but don't know if they were courtesy of my wife. All up, I am really pleased with everything.
01-09-2018, 05:59 AM - 1 Like   #14666
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Very nice!


I'm at a bit of a cross roads. I would like to stay with Pentax, but they're not really producing the products that I want.
With cameras improving dramatically over the last 10 years, I would be happy with a camera that is capable enough for both video and stills.
I'm invested heavily in Pentax, and want to be able to use the lenses and bodies I have for video work, using sensors stabilisation in both etc, but Pentax have not reviewed their video offering in 6 years now, and that's just crazy.


I think mirrorless will be the future, but I'm not rushing to get there, but there's no reason Pentax can't up their video game a bit on a DSLR. Nikon for example has done this very successfully on their recent cameras.
Given the mirror has to be up for live view/video, I'd be up for a Pentax mirrorless, a modern K-01 if you will.
I want IBIS much more than I want 4K for example. It's sad that this is available on many other cameras now, but not the brand who has been doing sensor based stabilisation for 10 years or so.
Yeah, sounds like you are at where I was two years ago. I ended up moving away from Pentax for this reason (although the KP nearly brought me back), and have kept my Takumars for use on Fuji. It's especially disappointing since the K-20 (20 fps mode), and K-5 were right there with the Nikon D90 for video before/at the time mirrorless began. Since then, not much has happened.

I now have the Panny GM1 and GM5, and the Fuji X-T20. The Fuji is great for stills (especially colour - I haven't processed a single RAW since getting it - done in camera only), but only average for video. The panny gear is wonderful for video, but not as good as Pentax or the Fuji for straight out photo quality. Depends on how big you want to print. I should mention that I previously had Fuji medium format gear, and the UI works for me.

There's lots of choices. Panny for me is good enough, and the newer dual IS GX85 or G85 models (not sure what they are called in NZ) might be the go for you. The Oly gear is also good as a hybrid solution. So is Sony (and that is APS-C, so better stills quality), but personally I won't do that again.

Personally, the one thing I am missing right now is WR. My last Pentax body was the K-5IIs. Thinking the G85 would be a nice replacement with the 12-60mm on it.

---------- Post added 01-09-2018 at 08:03 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
That is the beauty of the GH5 - you get IBIS, 4K and a whole lot of other video goodness...

Very nice camera.

I am still using my K3 for stills, but we have a Sony EX1 and now the GH5 for dedicated video work. The GH5 also takes very nice stills.
Exactly. For a hybrid solution, the GH5 is pretty darn good.

I was speaking to folks at a conference doing video work with their GH4's, and they weren't even using a computer to process video interviews. Video on steadypod with good lavallier mics (two). Clip in-camera and post via their phones.
01-09-2018, 05:26 PM   #14667
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
TVSN are right now showing a Pentax sales feature again. This time it is about a K-70 bundle.
Stuff TVSN.... Got a nice little deal on K70 myself going... Body only $949, Body+18-55 $1049, Body+18-135 $1434 incl GST, 8GB SD card

---------- Post added 01-09-18 at 05:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote

Personally, the one thing I am missing right now is WR. My last Pentax body was the K-5IIs. Thinking the G85 would be a nice replacement with the 12-60mm on it.

---------- Post added 01-09-2018 at 08:03 AM ----------



Exactly. For a hybrid solution, the GH5 is pretty darn good.

I was speaking to folks at a conference doing video work with their GH4's, and they weren't even using a computer to process video interviews. Video on steadypod with good lavallier mics (two). Clip in-camera and post via their phones.
The GH5 is incredible, but also has a price to match, the other option if you want weather sealed with good video would be the Olympus OM-D E-M5II or E-M1II For the price of the GH5 body, you could go for a E-M5II + 12-40mm f2.8 and walk away withe nearly a grand still in your pocket which if you are wanting to set up for video could go toward mic's/rigs, The other neat thing with the Olympus; OM-D's is they will also accept a couple of their Linear PCM audio recorders, The E-M5II does full HD at upto 60fps and 50Mbps bit rate, or the E-M1 II will do Cinema 4K at upto 237Mbps and still have the full 5 axis IBIS, and full AF using a mix of Contrast & on sensor PDAF, The E-M1II is similar in price body only to the GH5
01-09-2018, 07:48 PM   #14668
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
The Fuji is great for stills (especially colour - I haven't processed a single RAW since getting it - done in camera only), but only average for video.
Nearly every manufacturer has upped their game on at least their latest model now. Fuji do have some cameras that are good for video, and I'd expect these learnings to filter down to lower grade offerings over time too.

Without being too dramatic, it really is only Pentax who have done nothing of significance in this area. Their bit rates are still half what most are offering, and about a quarter of what some provide.
They've not really touched this since 2012 and we're now into 2018!

To be clear, I've done paid video work using the K-3, so it's not like it can't be done or anything like that. It's just that it could easily be so much better and they don't appear to give a
01-09-2018, 08:53 PM   #14669
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwi110Auto Quote

The GH5 is incredible, but also has a price to match, the other option if you want weather sealed with good video would be the Olympus OM-D E-M5II or E-M1II For the price of the GH5 body, you could go for a E-M5II + 12-40mm f2.8 and walk away withe nearly a grand still in your pocket which if you are wanting to set up for video could go toward mic's/rigs, The other neat thing with the Olympus; OM-D's is they will also accept a couple of their Linear PCM audio recorders, The E-M5II does full HD at upto 60fps and 50Mbps bit rate, or the E-M1 II will do Cinema 4K at upto 237Mbps and still have the full 5 axis IBIS, and full AF using a mix of Contrast & on sensor PDAF, The E-M1II is similar in price body only to the GH5
I knew Panasonic had a reputation for video, but after looking at the price for the GH5 I think I'll own a KP long before I own a GH5.
I don't do much video, so I'm tending to consider the KP for the low light performance in a compact body.
That body only price on the K-70 looks tempting though! I'm not sure if it's a sufficient upgrade from the k-50 but might be, and I can just about afford that. Looking in Lightroom, I'll have had the K-50 3 years in April, which is about the average time between upgrading my bodies, so this year is probably time to go shopping again, money permitting.
01-09-2018, 09:46 PM - 1 Like   #14670
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kiwizinho Quote
I knew Panasonic had a reputation for video, but after looking at the price for the GH5 I think I'll own a KP long before I own a GH5.
We brought the GH5 for professional video work, and it is a good tool for that application. If you are only looking for occasional video you would never buy a GH5.

I think it is just a case of picking the right tool for you for your uses. That will also be guided by budget.
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