[zkarj]

I'd be interested to try out video on a "non-video" camera. I bought a $900 "video camera" a few years back and ended up selling it almost right away (at a significant loss of course) because it was completely unusable for my purposes. The darned thing was so small it was impossible to hold steadily, but the image stabilisation was too heavy handed so I could not do a slow pan without a delay and initial 'rush' for it to catch up.

People have remarked on my tracking abilities for stills before, and that's based on a solid lump stuck on my face, so I bet that's the answer to video for me. Only thing is it's way, way down my spending list at this stage. Would be nice if Pentax could do it with software updates.

[NZ_Ross]

Olympus have the only waterproof compact that shoots RAW as far as I can tell. IQ wise its no match for a DSLR, but it seems to be superior to everything else in its class, and even if I could get a waterproof housing for my Pentax, it would still be rather bulky.

My understanding is that the Olympus waterproof cameras are very good, there is a Pentax model too, but from what I read the Olympus is better. The new DJI Osmo Action could also be worth looking at, as it is also waterproof.

---------- Post added 20-05-19 at 12:17 PM ----------

Will be interesting to hear how you get on Ross.

Thanks Rich, I made my first test vlog in the weekend - I definitely need to practice much more before they will be ready for publishing. My two initial observations at 4K were 1. take my glasses off when making vlogs as there are too many reflections off them and 2. shave - I looked very rough in 4k

---------- Post added 20-05-19 at 12:19 PM ----------

I'd be interested to try out video on a "non-video" camera. I bought a $900 "video camera" a few years back and ended up selling it almost right away (at a significant loss of course) because it was completely unusable for my purposes. The darned thing was so small it was impossible to hold steadily, but the image stabilisation was too heavy handed so I could not do a slow pan without a delay and initial 'rush' for it to catch up.

People have remarked on my tracking abilities for stills before, and that's based on a solid lump stuck on my face, so I bet that's the answer to video for me. Only thing is it's way, way down my spending list at this stage. Would be nice if Pentax could do it with software updates.

I will post a link once I have a vlog up in the next few weeks, so that you can see what can be produced from the Panasonic

---------- Post added 20-05-19 at 12:21 PM ----------

looks very nice Ross !

Thanks Pete

[MarkJerling]

My two initial observations at 4K were 1. take my glasses off when making vlogs as there are too many reflections off them and 2. shave - I looked very rough in 4k

Rugged Southern man look? You'll be in a Speights advert before you know it!

[NZ_Ross]

Rugged Southern man look? You'll be in a Speights advert before you know it!

More the scruffy, should have shaved before Vlogging look , and there is no chance I will ever be in a Speights advert

[richandfleur]

Re vlog, I'm a huge fan of lavalier (lapel) mics. I mic the talent up, and then run the cable down to an older iPhone running the rode app.
Then use the on camera audio track to sync up the audio to the video.

Audio is often as important as the video for speaking/business type content. On camera works, just if you have the time and ability to control the setup etc the lav mic can be significantly better.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Most content is still watched on a 1080p screen, or lower res on a cellphone these days. 4k is now standard video and TV wise (8K TVs are out now), but most content is still consumed at a lower resolution.
That goes for pictures too and means most photos are viewed as a 2MP resolution final image!

[Kiwizinho]

My understanding is that the Olympus waterproof cameras are very good, there is a Pentax model too, but from what I read the Olympus is better. The new DJI Osmo Action could also be worth looking at, as it is also waterproof.

Yes, I looked at the Pentax/Ricoh waterproof cameras and they looked interesting, but they don't have RAW support as far as I can tell (I don't know why Ricoh couldn't add it with a firmware upgrade), and from experience with my DSLR, RAW can make a huge difference on what might be otherwise marginal images.

Thanks for mentioning DJI, I might take a look at the specs. I tend to think of them as drones only, and that definitely didn't include submarines ... however I remember a while back the US government were complaining about them being a security risk, ties to the Chinese government or something, and if there's any even the faintest hint of truth to the claims, they probably do underwater surveillance really well.

[richandfleur]

Yes, I looked at the Pentax/Ricoh waterproof cameras and they looked interesting, but they don't have RAW support as far as I can tell (I don't know why Ricoh couldn't add it with a firmware upgrade), and from experience with my DSLR, RAW can make a huge difference on what might be otherwise marginal images.

Thanks for mentioning DJI, I might take a look at the specs. I tend to think of them as drones only, and that definitely didn't include submarines ... however I remember a while back the US government were complaining about them being a security risk, ties to the Chinese government or something, and if there's any even the faintest hint of truth to the claims, they probably do underwater surveillance really well.

Bit of a side conversation here, but the Ricoh/Pentax and Olympus main waterproof cameras looked to be identical. Firmware/UI was different but capabilities and housing were pretty much the same device. Pentax stopped producing them at some stage from memory, so you have to go Olympus now to get that anymore. My brother got one in NZ a few years ago and still uses it, but at the time (as per normal) there wasn't a local vendor with a Pentax version in stock.

I didn't shoot this, but edited it from files sent to me. Stabilisation is rough and shows a lot of artefacts. Some of this is in camera (no idea if stabilisation was turned on to start with) and some is from the software stabilisation applied in post. I believe it was mostly shot on the olympus rugged camera.

You Tube

You Tube

I heard a presentation from Huawai (pronounced Wow way or similar by the way) and they described how they were black listed by the US for not providing the US government a back door for listening purposes. PR wise that's been spun into them not supporting the US and routing back to china etc. Not saying I believe the story from either side, but expect there's more to any story coming out of the US these days.

Agree also re RAW support, especially where dynamic range is a bit suspect to start with. Most of these smaller sensor devices are prone to blown highlights/little shadow depth and have less leeway to post process. Usual deal though, that if the lighting conditions are good, they're very often good enough. Cellphones are on a par with DSLR in some conditions, where the lighting is favourable and your're happy with the fixed focal length of the phone lens etc.

[MarkJerling]

More the scruffy, should have shaved before Vlogging look , and there is no chance I will ever be in a Speights advert

You'll be competition for $$$ony Northop before you know it!

[MarkJerling]

I heard a presentation from Huawai (pronounced Wow way or similar by the way) and they described how they were black listed by the US for not providing the US government a back door for listening purposes. PR wise that's been spun into them not supporting the US and routing back to china etc. Not saying I believe the story from either side, but expect there's more to any story coming out of the US these days.

One wonders which side has the "true" story.

[Kiwizinho]

One wonders which side has the "true" story.

Another side of the story apparently according to the Brits who didn't quite suggest banning Huawei outright, was that the software development practices at Huawei were so bad that they wouldn't know if they had back doors or not, nor who had access to them.

I guess it's a good case of, "Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity."

[NZ_Ross]

Yes, I looked at the Pentax/Ricoh waterproof cameras and they looked interesting, but they don't have RAW support as far as I can tell (I don't know why Ricoh couldn't add it with a firmware upgrade), and from experience with my DSLR, RAW can make a huge difference on what might be otherwise marginal images.

Thanks for mentioning DJI, I might take a look at the specs. I tend to think of them as drones only, and that definitely didn't include submarines ... however I remember a while back the US government were complaining about them being a security risk, ties to the Chinese government or something, and if there's any even the faintest hint of truth to the claims, they probably do underwater surveillance really well.

Osmo Action ? Unleash Your Other Side ? DJI

Interesting looking little unit, depending on what you were planning to do with it.

---------- Post added 20-05-19 at 05:51 PM ----------

Re vlog, I'm a huge fan of lavalier (lapel) mics. I mic the talent up, and then run the cable down to an older iPhone running the rode app.
Then use the on camera audio track to sync up the audio to the video.

Audio is often as important as the video for speaking/business type content. On camera works, just if you have the time and ability to control the setup etc the lav mic can be significantly better.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Most content is still watched on a 1080p screen, or lower res on a cellphone these days. 4k is now standard video and TV wise (8K TVs are out now), but most content is still consumed at a lower resolution.
That goes for pictures too and means most photos are viewed as a 2MP resolution final image!

Thanks Rich, I am thinking both a Lav mike and also shotgun. Also Lav for myself when doing a monologue. However, in a conference situation where I am just catching people for a few comments, I think a shotgun would work better. A dual Lav set up would also be good on occasion, but I am still investigating that. The new little Rode Go mike looks pretty good as a Lav mike solution

---------- Post added 20-05-19 at 06:08 PM ----------

You'll be competition for $$$ony Northop before you know it!

The is no way I could ever compete with Tony, I wouldn't even try

The Vlogging is going to be around managing infrastructure, not camera's, and given people from all over the world look in on the infrastructure posts, I will try to be presentable

[Kiwizinho]

Bit of a side conversation here, but the Ricoh/Pentax and Olympus main waterproof cameras looked to be identical. Firmware/UI was different but capabilities and housing were pretty much the same device. Pentax stopped producing them at some stage from memory, so you have to go Olympus now to get that anymore.

The former Pentax branded rugged compacts are still available, but branded as Ricoh. WG-6 is the latest iteration. Feature wise though the Olympus looks to be far ahead. They've taken the interesting step of reducing the resolution of their latest model to 12Mpixel from 16Mpixel to ensure better low light performance on a small sensor (Ricoh is 20Mpixel).

I actually looked at the WG- series first as I'm familiar with Pentax, but when I compared with Olympus, the Ricoh offering was inferior.

Interesting to see that video footage. There are some sections with pretty badly blown highlights - worse than I'd expect from my tape based camcorder, but I suspect it was someone who wasn't making too much effort to take quality video.

I'm still tossing up the Olympus, as it's pretty expensive as far as compacts go, for a pretty specialised use case, and for only a around $300 more I could upgrade my K-50 to a K-70 that has some desirable new features.

[Kiwizinho]

Osmo Action ? Unleash Your Other Side ? DJI

Interesting looking little unit, depending on what you were planning to do with it.[COLOR="Silver"]

Not quite what I was looking for. Action cameras aren't quite what I want, as I want zoom, as much manual control as possible in a compact and so on.

This is what I'm interested in.

Tough TG-5 Waterproof Digital Camera | Olympus

Not a DSLR, but probably as close as you're going to get in a waterproof compact.

The trouble is if I buy one of these, I might not see it, especially if I buy the red edition. It's my wife's favourite colour, and she's also prone to dropping things, so this is probably just about her idea of a perfect camera.

Interestingly, I read on one travel photography review site, the guy said for anything involving water, he'd go with the Olympus, for anything else, he'd go with a Ricoh GRII(I) - presumably due to the larger sensor.

Both the TG-5 and the WG-6 are pretty small, so I actually think there would be scope to make a slightly larger camera with an APS-C or M4/3 sensor. A rugged, waterproof APS-C or M 4/3 camera I think could carve out quite a decent market for itself amongst adventuring types who also are photography enthusiasts. Ricoh has experience with both the GR series and the WG series. If they could combine the best features of both, then it's something I'd definitely be interested in.

[richandfleur]

The Olympus/Ricoh tough cameras are a pretty massive tradeoff between image quality and ruggedised/waterproof compact.
No getting around that.

DPReview test shots aren't perfect, but they give a pretty good rough idea.

[Kiwizinho]

The Olympus/Ricoh tough cameras are a pretty massive tradeoff between image quality and ruggedised/waterproof compact.
No getting around that.

DPReview test shots aren't perfect, but they give a pretty good rough idea.

I'll be interested to see how the TG-5 compares. It still won't be great, but by dropping the resolution it should have better low light performance than the TG-4. Unfortunately DPReview don't have samples for it.

The Ricoh GR-III (not the GR-II which is noticeably inferior) and the K-3 look fairly close in terms of IQ.

Unfortunately there isn't really much choice when it comes to waterproof, unless you want to go for something that has a separate housing available, and that quickly starts getting expensive.

I think natural history is a bit of a dangerous type of photography to get addicted to, as it has the potential to get very expensive. At the other end of the scale from underwater life, there are birds, that ideally need fast 400mm plus.

Maybe I should try to do more landscapes.