[richandfleur]

Whew - it worked then!!
Now I know it I am not sure I would use it much. Perhaps in the variant; Distance = Fl (mm) x subject width(M) / sensor size(mm)
ie I have the 50mm on and want to do a fast impromptu portrait - How far do i need to be from the 2Metre high person in portrait mode? Answer = 3metres

Yeah in my case it was:

I’m going to be x meters away from the object, and I know the object is x meters wide. What focal length lens do I need to pack to ensure I can fit it in left to right?

You know, for those who don’t want to do panos

Worked perfectly 👍🏻

[NZ_Ross]

But probably good for Pentax. How many People would actually not buy a new Pentax body because of this? OK you could say Arpe:

I think Pentax people will keep buying Pentax. I am not sure third party manufacturers stopping K-mount production is good for Pentax overall.

I have been following the industry discussion from the Canon CEO and others, plus the recent CIPA numbers showing the continuing sharp fall off in interchangeable lens cameras - both DSLR and Mirrorless. If the predictions of 5-7 million units a year being where the industry settles, then the next question is who survives this level of shrinkage.

At this stage my predictions for survivors would be:
Canon - massive company, excellent glass, good brand/market recognition
Sony - massive company, own image sensor market, seen as leading innovation
Panasonic - massive company, very strong video, innovative, m4/3 and FF product
Fuji - massive company, excellent glass, iterate fast, good market focus, innovative
Leica - luxury brand, discrete niche product, enough people seem happy to pay the premium
Hasselblad - now had DJI backing, niche market, continues to innovate

Maybe Survive
Nikon - excellent glass, very well regarded product, but rapidly losing market share to Sony
Pentax/Ricoh - massive company (Ricoh), very small dedicated market, clear strategy to stay small and deliver to current market

Unlikely to survive
Olympus - smaller niche, only m4/3, not really delivering what the market is buying

The next few years are going to be brutal as the overall interchangeable lens camera sales continue to plummet, as phone cameras are sufficient for the lower end and encroach into the APSC market, and as more and more camera users reach 'sufficiency' and keep their cameras longer and longer between replacements.

Time will tell, but Pentax has its work cut out over the next couple of years.

[richandfleur]

Maybe Survive
Pentax/Ricoh - massive company (Ricoh), very small dedicated market, clear strategy to stay small and deliver to current market

The next few years are going to be brutal as the overall interchangeable lens camera sales continue to plummet, as phone cameras are sufficient for the lower end and encroach into the APSC market, and as more and more camera users reach 'sufficiency' and keep their cameras longer and longer between replacements.

A pretty good summary there.

A few points spring to mind.

1) Not sure if that Pentax stay small and deliver to current market is sustainable. The do almost nothing to promote themselves to new buyers, aren't available to purchase in many places, and don't address the aspects that consistently seem them marked down in reviews (tracking AF and Video being the main ones). Issue I see with that is the current market is shrinking, so that doesn't add up long term.

2) Fully agree re cell phones and their rapidly improving capabilities. Bottom line is if you are taking landscape shots you're after a wide depth of field (say f8 or more) and if the lighting is good that's not much different to a now high res cellphone with decent lens. Likewise portraits where new cellphones have 2 or more lenses, so you get a 50mm equivalent packed in there as well as well as face detect AF etc.

3) Fully agree that camera tech improvements have plateaued, nowhere near the original digital early days where each new iteration was dramatically better than the last. As has been mentioned before, the largest industry developments in recent times have been around supporting tech, rather than pure sensor capabilities alone. The likes of Eye AF, wifi apps, flippy touch screens, tracking AF, Video capabilities and resolution, use of IBIS, weather sealing, magnesium alloy bodies, dual card slots etc are where we're seeing developments.

These developments are where a new product becomes desirable to upgrade, and without them or improvements in sensor tech there's no reason to change, or more importantly no reason to repurchase with Pentax and people will go elsewhere.
We've seen nothing new this year, and whilst Pentax don't need to update each camera each year, they have model lines like the K-3 or 645Z that haven't had an update for many years now.

[GUB]

Bottom line is if you are taking landscape shots you're after a wide depth of field (say f8 or more)

I am the other way with this - just checked my Nepal landscapes and as I thought - I could only find one f8 -- everything else was wider open . Must make a nightmare for camera makers when everyone has a different approach and want the best out of a camera.
This one f4.5 with the 28mm and what is important to me is the foreground is soft - giving depth to the image.

Many times I used the 28 wide open to achieve this.

[richandfleur]

I am the other way with this - just checked my Nepal landscapes and as I thought - I could only find one f8 -- everything else was wider open . Must make a nightmare for camera makers when everyone has a different approach and want the best out of a camera.
This one f4.5 with the 28mm and what is important to me is the foreground is soft - giving depth to the image.

Many times I used the 28 wide open to achieve this.

I'd suggest you've got a unique approach to this then

A quick google will see f11 referenced most times, with the aim of ensuring everything in the scene is in focus and to use the lens at it's most sharpest/highest optical resolution with less chromatic aberration.
The exception being astro type work,where you usually opt for the widest aperture settings possible.

example link

[GUB]

Don't know about "unique" probably happier to go with "odd" -- used to it!.

Your example is with FF where f11 is arguably still there in sharpness.
Take a look at these ephotizine test results for the HD DA 21mm. The first image is CA
In apsc there no reason to be beyond f8 and f5.6 is up there with f11.
Also, if you are in a situation one stop down from a "sunny 16" exposure (light cloud) then f11 base iso puts you smack in the middle of shutter shake.
I truly value the ability to have planes of the image slightly oof.
Take a look at that wonderful shot of the sailing ship you have just shown us. You have chosen PP highlighting to bring up the ship to great effect so I presume you are loving the juxtaposition of the ship against the buildings but also felt the need to emphasize the ship. That is exactly where I would be cranking the aperture open and focusing on the forward mast to add to the emphasis. And I could live with the tip of the bowsprit just starting to lose it. It would all boost the 3d and emphasize the ship.
But no way is right or wrong - the comment was about poor camera designers having to keep everyone happy.

[richandfleur]

Don't know about "unique" probably happier to go with "odd" -- used to it!.

Your example is with FF where f11 is arguably still there in sharpness.
Take a look at these ephotizine test results for the HD DA 21mm. The first image is CA
In apsc there no reason to be beyond f8 and f5.6 is up there with f11.
Also, if you are in a situation one stop down from a "sunny 16" exposure (light cloud) then f11 base iso puts you smack in the middle of shutter shake.
I truly value the ability to have planes of the image slightly oof.
Take a look at that wonderful shot of the sailing ship you have just shown us. You have chosen PP highlighting to bring up the ship to great effect so I presume you are loving the juxtaposition of the ship against the buildings but also felt the need to emphasize the ship. That is exactly where I would be cranking the aperture open and focusing on the forward mast to add to the emphasis. And I could live with the tip of the bowsprit just starting to lose it. It would all boost the 3d and emphasize the ship.
But no way is right or wrong - the comment was about poor camera designers having to keep everyone happy.

All great points GUB. All good.

[Kiwizinho]

I think Pentax people will keep buying Pentax. I am not sure third party manufacturers stopping K-mount production is good for Pentax overall.

I had a look through Sigma's current PK mount lineup on here, to see if there's anything I really want while they're still hopefully available.

I came to the conclusion there's only about one lens that might be worth the effort.

The 10-20 3.5 would be a bit faster than the 10.20 3.5 - 5.6 I have, but then the Pentax DA* 11-18 2.8 is faster, weather sealed, and has quick shift (but a lot more expensive)

The 17-50 2.8 looks better than the equivalent Pentax, apart from lacking weather sealing, and possibly better than the equivalent Tamron, so this is probably the biggest loss.

The 17-70 2.8-4 I have the older 2.8-4.5 and love this lens, but for what I use it for, I wonder if the Pentax 16-85 might be a better walk-around option, even though it's slower, as it has weather sealing, maybe a bit sharper, and wider zoom range.

Sigma 18-35 1.8 - If it weren't for the abysmal autofocus rating I'd go for this, but a really fast lens with really poor AF is not a good combination.

The 50-500 would be nice, but it's way out of my price range, and I really can't think of any way to get a lens like this to pay for itself short of setting up as a paparazzi.


As far as future lens acquisitions go, the DA* 50-135 2.8 is still on my radar, even though it's expensive, as it's in a bit of a class of it's own for focal length and speed on APS-C, and could be the ideal portrait zoom.

[richandfleur]

Yeah I'd be going for the 35mm art lens only from sigma, or one of those 500mm beasts.

They dropped OS from their lenses a long way back, fair enough assuming Pentax had this in body anyway, which was kinda annoying for video purposes when Pentax also stopped using real sensor SR for video.
Honestly put off by the zoom direction being different on sigmas, which sounds petty but would annoy me. Found it weird when I tried a Canon recently because it was 'the wrong way around'.

[microlight]

According to the MTF data, the 20-40 is consistently sharpest even more open at f5.6, which supports its use as GUB indicated, assisting with subject isolation and 3D pop. But then if you use this aperture for landscapes, your focal length and point of focus are critical in defining what’s in or out of focus. For me, short range shooting is usually at around f5.6 - f7.1 while it’s usually f10 or f11 for longer ranges. Takes a bit of getting used to, because the DOF is very different between the extremes of the range - which isn’t very extreme anyway!

The one Pentax lens that I have a real draw towards is the new 11-18 but it’s soooo expensive here in the UK.

[MarkJerling]

The 50-500 would be nice, but it's way out of my price range, and I really can't think of any way to get a lens like this to pay for itself short of setting up as a paparazzi.

The 50-500 is nice, but weighs a ton. I'm on the lookout for a monopod.

[GUB]

The 50-500 is nice, but weighs a ton. I'm on the lookout for a monopod.

Are you sure your tripod doesn't have a removable leg? A lot of them do have. I have been just checking out my options and the monopod leg from this tripod I bought seems good. But the ball head that comes with the tripod is not at all smooth. A ball head on the monopod is a real plus. RT40 Professional Travel tripod monopod Compact Aluminum camera stand for DSLR Camera Upgraded from E306 Better than Q999 Q999S-in Live Tripods from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
I have a night time shoot coming up - we did it last year - "light up your bike" Here is the FB site Whanganui District Council - Photos | Facebook
A lot of the first images are mine (Basil Hooper) I chose not to use flash to maximise the led colors. I had my Revuenon 55mm f1.2 wide open and at 1/30 sec had to push up to about 5 - 6 stops in post (so about iso 6400). Hand held last year this year I hope to use my 85mm f1.8 on a monopod wide open @ say the same 1/30 sec. It is a procession so mobility is critical. How would you guys approach this?

[richandfleur]

It's a really hard subject matter, and your pics look great. I'd aim to capture as much as possible early in the event, where there might still be some available natural light?
Focusing becomes hard at such wide open apertures, but you need that for the light gathering. Just really hard subject matter.

Not sure the monopod will help, as a lot of blur will come from subject movement, more than camera shake.

Could always get creative, with a combo of light trails and flash. eg:

[GUB]

Not sure the monopod will help, as a lot of blur will come from subject movement, more than camera shake.

Good point. Trouble is it is the worst of both worlds - the subjects are moving quite slowly - often walking beside their bikes. Not like your two little hoods here zooming along - great shot.
But it could be fun to use fill in flash and slow shutter speed and move the camera.

[Kiwi645hauler]

I think Pentax people will keep buying Pentax. I am not sure third party manufacturers stopping K-mount production is good for Pentax overall.

I have been following the industry discussion from the Canon CEO and others, plus the recent CIPA numbers showing the continuing sharp fall off in interchangeable lens cameras - both DSLR and Mirrorless. If the predictions of 5-7 million units a year being where the industry settles, then the next question is who survives this level of shrinkage.

At this stage my predictions for survivors would be:
Canon - massive company, excellent glass, good brand/market recognition
Sony - massive company, own image sensor market, seen as leading innovation
Panasonic - massive company, very strong video, innovative, m4/3 and FF product
Fuji - massive company, excellent glass, iterate fast, good market focus, innovative
Leica - luxury brand, discrete niche product, enough people seem happy to pay the premium
Hasselblad - now had DJI backing, niche market, continues to innovate

Maybe Survive
Nikon - excellent glass, very well regarded product, but rapidly losing market share to Sony
Pentax/Ricoh - massive company (Ricoh), very small dedicated market, clear strategy to stay small and deliver to current market

Unlikely to survive
Olympus - smaller niche, only m4/3, not really delivering what the market is buying

The next few years are going to be brutal as the overall interchangeable lens camera sales continue to plummet, as phone cameras are sufficient for the lower end and encroach into the APSC market, and as more and more camera users reach 'sufficiency' and keep their cameras longer and longer between replacements.

Time will tell, but Pentax has its work cut out over the next couple of years.

I tend to agree, but i would Add Nikon to the will survive list, their history and they are actually being pretty proactive now they have arrived in the Mirrorless Sphere, and despite the damnation from the masses about the Z6/7 and single card slots etc (me included in that list of criers) the Z series are actually very very good, and their lenses are starting to come on stream and are pretty damn good,
As much as i hate saying it, i would swap Pentax/Ricoh with Olympus.... If Pentax does not do something then they will continue to lose what market they have.
Where as Olympus are out there still developing cameras, sure they are not major improvements to previous models for the most part, but their R&D listen to the market when developing new models. They are spending time and effort on continually developing lenses etc for the system AND they also have the Panasonic G lens catalogue that will fit and run with no issues .

The low end of the DSLR market will suffer as smartphone images get better, but the problem with most smartphone images even today using all the fancy multi lens tech is that they are still limited overall by the sensor size, and people get frustrated by not being able to get closer to things and zoom in as that physical sensor size limits how much you can crop without losing quality. I harken the sensor size thing to comparing an image from 110 to 35mm and 35mm to 120, bigger image area, that despite the same number of pixels, you will and do see more artifacting of images from smaller sensors as you blow up the size because of that smaller sensor structure for a given resolution. So what we will and are seeing is users carrying a smartphone daily, but for special things they are going to the mid-range and higher DSLR/Mirrorless systems to gain the better image quality and flexibility of use a System camera gives.

---------- Post added 09-11-19 at 06:16 PM ----------

Yeah I'd be going for the 35mm art lens only from sigma, or one of those 500mm beasts.
.

The funny thing is that Sigma no longer have the 50-500 on their lists, It has been replaced by a 60-600mm!!!! and that is currently only available in Canon and Nikon mounts... There is a rumor that it will come in Sony FE & Leica/Panny L mount at some point.
Speaking of Sigma & Tamron and co, its funny to me that NONE of the 3rd party lens makers except Zeiss produce lenses in Fuji X mount....