Kiwi Pentaxians

MarkJerling · 06-08-2021, 04:53 PM

Aha, thanks. It's right there! Shows you what I know about LR.

Arpe · 06-08-2021, 05:32 PM

The problem i had with embedding edits in DNG files was it created way more backup data. If I now edit a raw file and save it in the very small xmp file, it's just that file that get backed up, not the whole raw file. Not a problem for some, but it was for me.

**zkarj** · 06-08-2021, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

Can you show how to customise Lightroom to write to the DNG files? Mine does not do it and it sounds like a handy idea.

One of the icons that appears on the frames in Grid view (possibly optionally?) tells you which images have out of sync metadata (either you've changed it in LR and not written to file or the file had changed but LR hasn't updated its database). You can click that icon to sync them (appears in top right corner of each frame). You can also filter by the metadata status. My approach is to have it not automatically write, but every so often I will set the filter, select all images shown, and click one of the icons. They all get read/written in no time at all.

Originally posted by Arpe

The problem i had with embedding edits in DNG files was it created way more backup data. If I now edit a raw file and save it in the very small xmp file, it's just that file that get backed up, not the whole raw file. Not a problem for some, but it was for me.

Yes, a very real consideration.

Transit · 06-09-2021, 07:05 PM

Thanks Mate I'll have a squis at Picasa :-)

Originally posted by Class A

Have you ever tried Picasa?
I used it for a long time and it supports DNG files.
It is weak on local adjustments and limited regarding other adjustments, but it might suit you.
IIRC, it has a big "Export" (develop) button in the interface.

It is not longer supported, but that need not deter you, if you can download it from somewhere and it runs fine on your machine.

It depends.

Some software give DNG files a generic treatment and only uses dedicated development presets for .PEF files. Most of the time, however, you should be able to work around that and create your own preferred DNG default processing.

I use DNG files because they allow me to use any decent software, i.e., I'm not dependent on specific camera model support being available.

Kiwizinho · 06-09-2021, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Arpe

The problem i had with embedding edits in DNG files was it created way more backup data. If I now edit a raw file and save it in the very small xmp file, it's just that file that get backed up, not the whole raw file. Not a problem for some, but it was for me.

I think that's a reason why Adobe made the feature optional in Lightroom. If you do most of your changes immediately after importing images, it makes sense to have them embedded in the file, but if you do them a long way down the track then it will create larger backups.
Incidentally, Adobe Camera Raw also stores metadata changes to DNG files, and in that case I'm not sure if it gives you the option
Quote: "Adjustments are stored as metadata in an accompanying sidecar file, in a database, or in the file itself (in the case of DNG format)"
Lightroom has the advantage that it's optional, even though it uses the ACR engine for adjustments.
jpg and tiff files also support embedded metadata, and with Adobe at least, will include the full edit history, although with Photoshop the edits aren't reversible, the data of the edit history is still potentially saved to file, so trying to claim "It wasn't Photoshopped, Honest!" might not carry much weight if the file contains metadata about the edit history.

**zkarj** · 06-10-2021, 06:35 PM

Another flex from Adobe on the "will it or won't it?" of Lightroom Classic library access without a paid subscription.

I saw news items about the release of the first Apple Silicon-native version so of course I had to go download it. I had to find my way past a couple of obfuscations that suggested I had to buy to upgrade and eventually got it to update. When it launched I got the usual "What's new" pop-up and then the familiar "Please subscribe" window. Except now, instead of saying "Close this window to quit Lightroom" there was an altogether more direct message "This is the last time you can launch this app."

But it was once again not the truth. Lightroom continues to behave as it always did. The nag window appears, with the more benign message, I dismiss it, and continue using the Library module.

The funny thing is... I have actually been reconsidering a subscription anyway. Not being forced into it actually makes me slightly more amenable to paying them. If they'd shut me down, I'd not pay them out of spite.

Transit · 06-11-2021, 03:01 PM

Local photography legend Vonnie Cave has passed on.
Good taste in gear I see
Blowed if I can ID what model

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

Last edited by Transit; 06-11-2021 at 06:22 PM.

**zkarj** · 06-11-2021, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Transit

Blowed if I can ID what model

I'm gonna say a K20D based on the knurled knob on the left and the sweeping lines on top. See here.

Transit · 06-11-2021, 07:29 PM

yes i think you're right

Transit · 06-13-2021, 04:11 PM - **2 Likes**

I tried Picassa, might have cured my wish for big coloured buttons

seems it can't read PEF either which i seem to have a shed full.
Will keep watching darktable tutorials

**zkarj** · 06-15-2021, 08:24 PM - **1 Like**

The power of Lightroom keywords...

I just added 495 keywords to 85 images in 10 minutes (actual measured time). These were the location (same for all), aircraft identity and type (13 different aircraft, some shots with more than one), and the operator for 11 of the aircraft. Two of the aircraft were new to me which required adding their identity under the correct type in the hierarchy. All keywords entered by typing directly in the keyword entry field, including the new ones, and the time included some basic research on a few of the aircraft to ensure I had the tags correct.

Kiwizinho · 06-16-2021, 04:08 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by zkarj

The power of Lightroom keywords...

I just added 495 keywords to 85 images in 10 minutes (actual measured time). These were the location (same for all), aircraft identity and type (13 different aircraft, some shots with more than one), and the operator for 11 of the aircraft. Two of the aircraft were new to me which required adding their identity under the correct type in the hierarchy. All keywords entered by typing directly in the keyword entry field, including the new ones, and the time included some basic research on a few of the aircraft to ensure I had the tags correct.

Having your images keyworded is handy too. I just found several instances of unauthorised commercial use of some of my images, and one of them I knew where it was taken, but wasn't sure when, as I had several of the same location taken some time apart but it didn't take long to locate it.

---------- Post added 06-16-21 at 11:37 PM ----------

I found out Local Government NZ is having their conference in Blenheim this year. Apparently they like my photos, but not enough to pay for them.

Getting there | LGNZ 2021
Here's where they got the image from.
Seven Scenic Marlborough Road Trips

They used my image to link to Destination Marlborough, the official tourism agency for the region, who received a $784K grant from the council last year for marketing, and actually have a huge free photo library they hired a social media influencer to provide, so it seems like some laziness or lack of communication between different organisations, as they should have been able to find a legitimate free image if they didn't want to pay.
Possibly my keywording and general SEO (Search Engine Optimisation for those who're not website geeks), might have worked better too.
It does look as though the event management has been outsourced to a project management company, who in turn seem to have outsourced the website to someone else, so at some point along the way, someone has cut corners.

I sent the organisers an email, so it will be interesting to see how they explain things.

Kiwizinho · 06-16-2021, 05:25 PM

The LGNZ conference took down my image.

In some ways getting some money for it would have been nice, but at least they did the right thing.

MarkJerling · 06-16-2021, 05:33 PM

It's a sad state of affairs and all to common these days. If it's on the internet it must be free!

Kiwizinho · 06-16-2021, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

It's a sad state of affairs and all to common these days. If it's on the internet it must be free!

My 9 year old was almost in tears as I explained how she couldn't just copy and paste stuff off the internet for a science fair project, and how you're supposed to cite work if you do use anyone else's material. She said all her classmates were just copying and pasting and the adult (not sure if she's even a teacher) wanted quantity rather than quality.
Apparently in under a term, the kids are meant to prepare a 50 page presentation as homework. Looking at some Masters theses I've seen, they're only twice that length, and get an entire year full time to prepare, preceded by another year full time getting ready to do the thesis.
I think a lot of teachers have no clue about copyright. I've found one of my images pop up on a school website before, and asked them nicely to credit it, but nothing happened.
I guess there's a young generation growing up thinking the way you earn from digital content is to become a social media influencer, complete with a fake life.

The trouble is there are digital tools that can easily detect plagiarism, just as there are to detect image copying, and just as it's easy to copy, it's increasingly easy to get caught.

06-10-2021, 06:35 PM	#17676
zkarj Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wellington Posts: 1,290	Another flex from Adobe on the "will it or won't it?" of Lightroom Classic library access without a paid subscription. I saw news items about the release of the first Apple Silicon-native version so of course I had to go download it. I had to find my way past a couple of obfuscations that suggested I had to buy to upgrade and eventually got it to update. When it launched I got the usual "What's new" pop-up and then the familiar "Please subscribe" window. Except now, instead of saying "Close this window to quit Lightroom" there was an altogether more direct message "This is the last time you can launch this app." But it was once again not the truth. Lightroom continues to behave as it always did. The nag window appears, with the more benign message, I dismiss it, and continue using the Library module. The funny thing is... I have actually been reconsidering a subscription anyway. Not being forced into it actually makes me slightly more amenable to paying them. If they'd shut me down, I'd not pay them out of spite. Attached Images

06-15-2021, 08:24 PM - 1 Like	#17681
zkarj Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wellington Posts: 1,290	The power of Lightroom keywords... I just added 495 keywords to 85 images in 10 minutes (actual measured time). These were the location (same for all), aircraft identity and type (13 different aircraft, some shots with more than one), and the operator for 11 of the aircraft. Two of the aircraft were new to me which required adding their identity under the correct type in the hierarchy. All keywords entered by typing directly in the keyword entry field, including the new ones, and the time included some basic research on a few of the aircraft to ensure I had the tags correct. Attached Images

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06-08-2021, 04:53 PM	#17671
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Aha, thanks. It's right there! Shows you what I know about LR.

06-08-2021, 05:32 PM	#17672
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	The problem i had with embedding edits in DNG files was it created way more backup data. If I now edit a raw file and save it in the very small xmp file, it's just that file that get backed up, not the whole raw file. Not a problem for some, but it was for me.

06-08-2021, 05:38 PM	#17673
zkarj Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wellington Posts: 1,290	Originally posted by MarkJerling Can you show how to customise Lightroom to write to the DNG files? Mine does not do it and it sounds like a handy idea. One of the icons that appears on the frames in Grid view (possibly optionally?) tells you which images have out of sync metadata (either you've changed it in LR and not written to file or the file had changed but LR hasn't updated its database). You can click that icon to sync them (appears in top right corner of each frame). You can also filter by the metadata status. My approach is to have it not automatically write, but every so often I will set the filter, select all images shown, and click one of the icons. They all get read/written in no time at all. Originally posted by Arpe The problem i had with embedding edits in DNG files was it created way more backup data. If I now edit a raw file and save it in the very small xmp file, it's just that file that get backed up, not the whole raw file. Not a problem for some, but it was for me. Yes, a very real consideration.

06-09-2021, 07:05 PM	#17674
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Thanks Mate I'll have a squis at Picasa :-) Originally posted by Class A Have you ever tried Picasa? I used it for a long time and it supports DNG files. It is weak on local adjustments and limited regarding other adjustments, but it might suit you. IIRC, it has a big "Export" (develop) button in the interface. It is not longer supported, but that need not deter you, if you can download it from somewhere and it runs fine on your machine. It depends. Some software give DNG files a generic treatment and only uses dedicated development presets for .PEF files. Most of the time, however, you should be able to work around that and create your own preferred DNG default processing. I use DNG files because they allow me to use any decent software, i.e., I'm not dependent on specific camera model support being available.

06-09-2021, 08:18 PM	#17675
Kiwizinho Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Blenheim Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,291	Originally posted by Arpe The problem i had with embedding edits in DNG files was it created way more backup data. If I now edit a raw file and save it in the very small xmp file, it's just that file that get backed up, not the whole raw file. Not a problem for some, but it was for me. I think that's a reason why Adobe made the feature optional in Lightroom. If you do most of your changes immediately after importing images, it makes sense to have them embedded in the file, but if you do them a long way down the track then it will create larger backups. Incidentally, Adobe Camera Raw also stores metadata changes to DNG files, and in that case I'm not sure if it gives you the option Quote: "Adjustments are stored as metadata in an accompanying sidecar file, in a database, or in the file itself (in the case of DNG format)" Lightroom has the advantage that it's optional, even though it uses the ACR engine for adjustments. jpg and tiff files also support embedded metadata, and with Adobe at least, will include the full edit history, although with Photoshop the edits aren't reversible, the data of the edit history is still potentially saved to file, so trying to claim "It wasn't Photoshopped, Honest!" might not carry much weight if the file contains metadata about the edit history.

06-11-2021, 06:52 PM	#17678
zkarj Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wellington Posts: 1,290	Originally posted by Transit Blowed if I can ID what model I'm gonna say a K20D based on the knurled knob on the left and the sweeping lines on top. See here.

06-11-2021, 07:29 PM	#17679
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	yes i think you're right

06-13-2021, 04:11 PM - 2 Likes	#17680
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	I tried Picassa, might have cured my wish for big coloured buttons seems it can't read PEF either which i seem to have a shed full. Will keep watching darktable tutorials

06-16-2021, 04:08 AM - 1 Like	#17682
Kiwizinho Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Blenheim Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,291	Originally posted by zkarj The power of Lightroom keywords... I just added 495 keywords to 85 images in 10 minutes (actual measured time). These were the location (same for all), aircraft identity and type (13 different aircraft, some shots with more than one), and the operator for 11 of the aircraft. Two of the aircraft were new to me which required adding their identity under the correct type in the hierarchy. All keywords entered by typing directly in the keyword entry field, including the new ones, and the time included some basic research on a few of the aircraft to ensure I had the tags correct. Having your images keyworded is handy too. I just found several instances of unauthorised commercial use of some of my images, and one of them I knew where it was taken, but wasn't sure when, as I had several of the same location taken some time apart but it didn't take long to locate it. ---------- Post added 06-16-21 at 11:37 PM ---------- I found out Local Government NZ is having their conference in Blenheim this year. Apparently they like my photos, but not enough to pay for them. Getting there \| LGNZ 2021 Here's where they got the image from. Seven Scenic Marlborough Road Trips They used my image to link to Destination Marlborough, the official tourism agency for the region, who received a $784K grant from the council last year for marketing, and actually have a huge free photo library they hired a social media influencer to provide, so it seems like some laziness or lack of communication between different organisations, as they should have been able to find a legitimate free image if they didn't want to pay. Possibly my keywording and general SEO (Search Engine Optimisation for those who're not website geeks), might have worked better too. It does look as though the event management has been outsourced to a project management company, who in turn seem to have outsourced the website to someone else, so at some point along the way, someone has cut corners. I sent the organisers an email, so it will be interesting to see how they explain things.

06-16-2021, 05:25 PM	#17683
Kiwizinho Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Blenheim Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,291	The LGNZ conference took down my image. In some ways getting some money for it would have been nice, but at least they did the right thing.

06-16-2021, 05:33 PM	#17684
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	It's a sad state of affairs and all to common these days. If it's on the internet it must be free!

06-16-2021, 07:06 PM	#17685
Kiwizinho Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Blenheim Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,291	Originally posted by MarkJerling It's a sad state of affairs and all to common these days. If it's on the internet it must be free! My 9 year old was almost in tears as I explained how she couldn't just copy and paste stuff off the internet for a science fair project, and how you're supposed to cite work if you do use anyone else's material. She said all her classmates were just copying and pasting and the adult (not sure if she's even a teacher) wanted quantity rather than quality. Apparently in under a term, the kids are meant to prepare a 50 page presentation as homework. Looking at some Masters theses I've seen, they're only twice that length, and get an entire year full time to prepare, preceded by another year full time getting ready to do the thesis. I think a lot of teachers have no clue about copyright. I've found one of my images pop up on a school website before, and asked them nicely to credit it, but nothing happened. I guess there's a young generation growing up thinking the way you earn from digital content is to become a social media influencer, complete with a fake life. The trouble is there are digital tools that can easily detect plagiarism, just as there are to detect image copying, and just as it's easy to copy, it's increasingly easy to get caught.