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05-29-2010, 05:37 AM   #16
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I was invited to have a look at the images.

Overall, a poor comparison from a pixel peeper's point of view. But some nice and sharp photos nevertheless.

I won't comment on the images for other cameras. Except that what you see is the quality of the photographers and lenses, not the cameras...

For 645D, I numerically analyzed the 4th photo from the 2nd link given by ogl in his OP. It's the only photo with the required detail (eye, hair, roof-top, etc.).
http://photo1.ganref.jp/impression/0/368/645d_smp2_04_l.jpg

It's an ACR from FA645 45-85mmF4.5 at 50mm and f/11 at 1/125s and ISO200.

I measure 3700LW/PH resolution (MTF50) and a bit of Chromatic Abberation (1pixel). Measured from the 10-90% edge width at the roof top of the white house in the 2nd row of houses. The edge width is 1.6px. This is a good value but one really would need more defined parameters to really judge. Also, at f/11 (f/8.4 for 35mm equivalent), this is the value I would expect w/o knowing anything else...


Overall, the images are no deception but don't create the "must have" feeling I get from some of the S2 samples.

Which is probably due to the boring landscape subjects all of these Japanese photographers are taking. Is this a fetish thing in Japan, actually? What about a full scale girl in the studio, a bycicle park at a subway station, a subway station to start with, a lips detail, an eye closeup, any closeup, street people, staircase, ... I mean, isn't their enough for ideas in the PPG?

05-29-2010, 09:09 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Overall, the images are no deception but don't create the "must have" feeling I get from some of the S2 samples.

Which is probably due to the boring landscape subjects all of these Japanese photographers are taking. Is this a fetish thing in Japan, actually? What about a full scale girl in the studio, a bycicle park at a subway station, a subway station to start with, a lips detail, an eye closeup, any closeup, street people, staircase, ... I mean, isn't their enough for ideas in the PPG?
I agree! Give me a face or a collection of inanimate objects of known texture. The S2 samples are incredibly effective for that reason. I wanted the camera immediately upon viewing! The 645D images I have seen pretty much leave me cold.


Steve
05-29-2010, 09:27 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I agree! Give me a face or a collection of inanimate objects of known texture. The S2 samples are incredibly effective for that reason. I wanted the camera immediately upon viewing! The 645D images I have seen pretty much leave me cold.


Steve
+1 on that though I don't like the feel of the Leica s2. I held one when I was last in Germany, and I agree the lenses and the image quality are superb, I don't find the body all that ergonomic. YMMV
05-30-2010, 04:45 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I was invited to have a look at the images.

Overall, a poor comparison from a pixel peeper's point of view. But some nice and sharp photos nevertheless.

I won't comment on the images for other cameras. Except that what you see is the quality of the photographers and lenses, not the cameras...

For 645D, I numerically analyzed the 4th photo from the 2nd link given by ogl in his OP. It's the only photo with the required detail (eye, hair, roof-top, etc.).
http://photo1.ganref.jp/impression/0/368/645d_smp2_04_l.jpg

It's an ACR from FA645 45-85mmF4.5 at 50mm and f/11 at 1/125s and ISO200.

I measure 3700LW/PH resolution (MTF50) and a bit of Chromatic Abberation (1pixel). Measured from the 10-90% edge width at the roof top of the white house in the 2nd row of houses. The edge width is 1.6px. This is a good value but one really would need more defined parameters to really judge. Also, at f/11 (f/8.4 for 35mm equivalent), this is the value I would expect w/o knowing anything else...


Overall, the images are no deception but don't create the "must have" feeling I get from some of the S2 samples.

Which is probably due to the boring landscape subjects all of these Japanese photographers are taking. Is this a fetish thing in Japan, actually? What about a full scale girl in the studio, a bycicle park at a subway station, a subway station to start with, a lips detail, an eye closeup, any closeup, street people, staircase, ... I mean, isn't their enough for ideas in the PPG?

apart the fact that i'm sure the pentax will compare favourably against a leica s2, not very different oputput in quality, also if the leica s2 was slightly better at 100% video, it wouldn't be a drama considering that a full leica s2 system made of 2 body, yes a pro need two body of the same camera, and 4 lenses will set iu in the 50000 euro easily, while a pentax 645d system with 4 used optics will set u no more than 18000 euro.
the phase one 65 is clearly better but cost 60000 euro the sytem.
typical of pentax mood...same quality but for a fa lower price.

05-30-2010, 04:50 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
apart the fact that i'm sure the pentax will compare favourably against a leica s2, not very different oputput in quality, also if the leica s2 was slightly better at 100% video, it wouldn't be a drama considering that a full leica s2 system made of 2 body, yes a pro need two body of the same camera, and 4 lenses will set iu in the 50000 euro easily, while a pentax 645d system with 4 used optics will set u no more than 18000 euro.
the phase one 65 is clearly better but cost 60000 euro the sytem.
typical of pentax mood...same quality but for a fa lower price.


in addition twodays ago in nice fgrance i found a fa 645 150 2,8 used. i bought it. u know the price? 230 euro. with 230 euro u don't even buy the neck strap of leica s2.
probably it will perfom worse than the comparable leica s2 tele fast lens. but the leica cost 4500 euro.
iso i dont expect pentax 645 to outperform leica s2, but it wont be so far behind anc consideing the price there is no competition.
Leica s2 is just a nice camera for rich man and some professional with very large earning, is not a case that i have seen one leica s2 at the grand prix of montecarlo. an old sure rich guy went down from a big yacht with it andbegan takin g snapshot around.
05-30-2010, 08:49 AM   #21
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Although it would rather be premature to talk about the general imaging characteristics of the sensor used on the 645D on a comparative basis (say against the S2, for example), the few images we have seen so far with the since-long-available lenses are worth any praise. We are not talking about a normal lens costing some $4.500 or a 120mm macro one costing another $6.500; I for one, have bought a series of the 645 lenses from 35FA, 45A, 55A, 75A, 120A, 150FA, plus a 200A, all in excellent+ condition for less than what half of the S2 normal lens costs.

Further, the studio shots taken with a certain bandwidth of the spectrum of halogen or strobes may look quite different than those shot under the daylight conditions. Remember how the majority of us were not much impressed when we saw the very first S2 samples at the DPReview; they surely were looking inferior to the ones taken in controlled studio environment. How much they differ? Very much... Please compare the 5DII shots on the above link to the one taken by Ron Purdy, again with a 5DII however under his studio lights:

http://www.afashionshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/img_0159.jpg

Let's be patient a little more until the 645Ds began to reach to the hands of professionals as well as of some picky amateurs. The sensor used is the same as the one on the Mamiya DM40 or Hasselblad HD4-40 and as far as IQ is concerned, I am yet to hear anybody claiming the S2 being much better than the HD4-40, for example.
03-01-2011, 12:56 AM   #22
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The reason the MKII looks like mush is because the 24-105 is complete garbage. The corners are HORRID while only the spot center is sharp. I got rid of mine after 3 recalibrations under warranty for $850 while I could. It just sucked. It was even worse than the 24-80MM plastic kit lens I had. Canon customer service was superb and did all they could but the lens itself just wasn't good enough.

Use a 50mm F1.4 or 70-200L on it and you'll wonder why the hell you ever put up with the 24-105.

I know this thread is dated but I bet someone would be interested in a truthful photo taken with a Canon 5D Mark II + 70-200 F4/L:

Full size image straight from camera RAW set at JPEG 10 quality (about 6MB)


And in post with a simple .02 pixel unsharp mask set to %500, everything becomes even better


However, I still would rather use a Pentax full frame if it existed over the MKII any day don't get me wrong

Last edited by Overfocused; 03-01-2011 at 01:13 AM.
03-01-2011, 07:06 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
...
And with my pentax 67 800mm f/6.7 ED IF lens I'm sure the pentax 645 will be a very useful tool for my wildlife work as well.
...
Yikes, I take it you don't plan to travel far from the car on foot to shoot your wildlife at 6.5 kilograms-force and about the same or more in tripod? But I guess that's not much larger than some of those monster Canon lenses I've seen people hauling around.


Last edited by tuco; 03-01-2011 at 07:12 AM.
03-01-2011, 07:33 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I take it you don't plan to travel far from the car on foot to shoot your wildlife at 6.5 kilograms-force and about the same or more in tripod? But I guess that's not much larger than some of those monster Canon lenses I've seen people hauling around.
ah that is what my assistant is for, a useful pack mule for my lenses I also own one of those "monster" Nikon lenses a 400mm f2.8G ED VR. The size of that lens is managable in comparison to the Pentax 67 M*800mm f/6.7 ED - and of course a VERY sturdy tripod is required for that lens.
03-01-2011, 10:27 AM   #25
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A steadicam-type system would be able to help with that kind of bulk
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