Titl shift lens for the 645D

erick · 09-06-2010, 02:50 AM

is there any (24mm equivalent on CaNikon) Tilt/Shift lens fort the 645D ?

thank you

ghelary · 09-06-2010, 03:24 AM

Hartblei made some : Kiev Camera & HARTBLEI | Tilt-Shift Lenses & Medium Format Cameras

However as you can see those lenses are not available anymore, however, new lenses seem to be available :
Hartblei - Optics by Carl Zeiss

Those seem to be available only on 35mm SLR mounts but if you are into it, it may be possible to get one on special order... at a price.

erick · 09-06-2010, 03:30 AM

thank you
but with the sensor crop a 40mm will be like a 60 mm about ?

RawheaD · 09-06-2010, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by erick

thank you
but with the sensor crop a 40mm will be like a 60 mm about ?

Hartblei has a 45mm T/S which you can adapt using an adapter. You can find it on the used market for around $1500 give or take.

45mm on 645 is kinda sorta like a 30mm on FF. With the 1.3x crop factor, it's going to be like a 40mm on FF, so not really wide like the Canikon 24mm T/S (let alone Canon's 17mm T/s)

erick · 09-06-2010, 03:45 AM

TSE 17 is too wide for me but the new Canon TSE 24 is a killer

40 mm on CaniKon is not really wide ? I was looking for something like the HCD 28 mm + TS system from Hasselblad

I am looking forward for thrt 645D anyway

thank you

RawheaD · 09-06-2010, 05:13 PM

40mm is 40mm. It's going to look like something just a little wider than a "standard" focal length lens.

I think the only way you can have a truly wideangle tilt/shift on medium format digital is to use a Hasselblad ArcBody with a digital back, and the widest 35mm Grandagon lens. Also the Hartlbei 45/4.5 would work as a wideangle on Contax/Mamiya/PhaseOne MF digital camera with the PhaseOne P65+, which is full frame 645.

surfotog · 09-06-2010, 05:44 PM

A 30mm lens on the 645D would be the equivalent of a 24mm on a FF 35mm sensor. I hope Pentax is working on a WA tilt for the 645D. This camera will be popular with landscape photographers, and a WA tilt would sell well IMHO.

RawheaD · 09-06-2010, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by surfotog

A 30mm lens on the 645D would be the equivalent of a 24mm on a FF 35mm sensor. I hope Pentax is working on a WA tilt for the 645D. This camera will be popular with landscape photographers, and a WA tilt would sell well IMHO.

We're getting the mm's all mixed up here

On film, the Hartlbei 45mm is a wide angle lens. In terms of diagonal angle of view, it's like a 30mm lens on a full frame, 135 format (35mm) camera (I guess more like 28mm). But because the 645D has a roughly 1.3x "crop factor", it's going to be the equivalent of a 37mm lens on 135 format (35mm).

So a Canon 5D with a Hartblei 35mm f2.8 tilt shift lens is going to have a wider FOV than the 645D with the Hartblei 45mm f3.5.

Regarding Pentax, they've had shift lenses before, but never tilt lenses, so I think it's not going to happen.

stevebrot · 09-06-2010, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by RawheaD

...I think the only way you can have a truly wideangle tilt/shift on medium format digital is to use a Hasselblad ArcBody with a digital back, and the widest 35mm Grandagon lens. Also the Hartlbei 45/4.5 would work as a wideangle on Contax/Mamiya/PhaseOne MF digital camera with the PhaseOne P65+, which is full frame 645.

The ArcBody would be a good solution or a digital back on a 2x3 or 4x5 view camera. Either way, the digital back is going to be the major expense. There several other options on the high end including cameras like the Cambo Wide RS which supports lenses as short as 28mm, has vert/horiz shift (geared!) and can be configured to add swing/tilt. Unfortunately, if you need to ask the price, you obviously can't afford it!

Steve

surfotog · 09-06-2010, 07:55 PM

RawheaD wrote:

"so a Canon 5D with a 35/2.8 tilt shift is going to have a wider FOV than the 645D with the hartblei 45mmf/3.5.

Not really, the simple way to figure the 35mm equivalent FOV with the 645D is to multiply focal length by .8. 45mm x.8= 36mm. So the 45mm on a 645D will have almost exactly the same FOV as the 35mm lens on the 5D.

According to the Canadian Pentax rep who did the LL interview, an ultrawide will be announced soon. As I remember seeing on the pentax roadmap it will be a 25mm, equivalent to a 20mm on your 5D.

erick · 09-06-2010, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by surfotog

A 30mm lens on the 645D would be the equivalent of a 24mm on a FF 35mm sensor. I hope Pentax is working on a WA tilt for the 645D. This camera will be popular with landscape photographers, and a WA tilt would sell well IMHO.

I cannot imagine shooting Architecture Landscape without a tilt shift lens, wide of course

ghelary · 09-08-2010, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by erick

I cannot imagine shooting Architecture Landscape without a tilt shift lens, wide of course

It depends, if it's just for perspective correction, computer can do well (including correcting barrrel distorsion) Now, if you need to master DOF, while not closing too much down (the tilt feature) then it can't really be replaced.

Anyway, tilt-shift lenses are specialty items, very desirable for their features but a MF tilt shift would not be something affordable by you average pro-photographer...

Since, Pentax wants to address the "amateur" market first...

wkkato · 09-08-2010, 09:05 AM

I have a couple of these, the original tilt/shift 45 Hartblei and the newer Hartblei Super Rotator TS 45mm. There are a couple of problems in using the TS lens that have nothing to do with the lens and how wide it is but have to do with the viewfinder of the P645 which only shows something like 89% or 85% of the picture taken. So you tilt and shift, compose and focus, and when you get the slide or negs back you have found out that you lost a good chunk of your composition to vignetting due to the shift and the limited viewfinder. Of course you don't see any less that what you shot but you've lost a great deal of real estate. I will be glad to get the 645D which apparently has a 100% viewfinder.

erick · 09-08-2010, 09:12 AM

there is no liveview on the 645D ?

RawheaD · 09-08-2010, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by surfotog

RawheaD wrote:
Not really, the simple way to figure the 35mm equivalent FOV with the 645D is to multiply focal length by .8. 45mm x.8= 36mm. So the 45mm on a 645D will have almost exactly the same FOV as the 35mm lens on the 5D.

Thanks for the formula, but I did do my own calculation and came up with 37mm, so we're saying the same thing. The fact is, a 5D + 35mm Super Rot (or the Canon/Nikon 35mm tilt shift lenses) is going to give you pretty much the same thing as a 645D + 45mm Super Rot, and so the only advantage of the 645D is going to be the higher resolution. At 4x the cost :-)

09-06-2010, 02:50 AM	#1
erick Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 18	[langtitle=fr]Titl shift lens for the 645D[/langtitle] is there any (24mm equivalent on CaNikon) Tilt/Shift lens fort the 645D ? thank you

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09-06-2010, 03:24 AM	#2
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Hartblei made some : Kiev Camera & HARTBLEI \| Tilt-Shift Lenses & Medium Format Cameras However as you can see those lenses are not available anymore, however, new lenses seem to be available : Hartblei - Optics by Carl Zeiss Those seem to be available only on 35mm SLR mounts but if you are into it, it may be possible to get one on special order... at a price.

09-06-2010, 03:30 AM	#3
erick Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 18 Original Poster	thank you but with the sensor crop a 40mm will be like a 60 mm about ?

09-06-2010, 03:40 AM	#4
RawheaD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: MA, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 831	Originally posted by erick thank you but with the sensor crop a 40mm will be like a 60 mm about ? Hartblei has a 45mm T/S which you can adapt using an adapter. You can find it on the used market for around $1500 give or take. 45mm on 645 is kinda sorta like a 30mm on FF. With the 1.3x crop factor, it's going to be like a 40mm on FF, so not really wide like the Canikon 24mm T/S (let alone Canon's 17mm T/s)

09-06-2010, 03:45 AM	#5
erick Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 18 Original Poster	TSE 17 is too wide for me but the new Canon TSE 24 is a killer 40 mm on CaniKon is not really wide ? I was looking for something like the HCD 28 mm + TS system from Hasselblad I am looking forward for thrt 645D anyway thank you

09-06-2010, 05:13 PM	#6
RawheaD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: MA, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 831	40mm is 40mm. It's going to look like something just a little wider than a "standard" focal length lens. I think the only way you can have a truly wideangle tilt/shift on medium format digital is to use a Hasselblad ArcBody with a digital back, and the widest 35mm Grandagon lens. Also the Hartlbei 45/4.5 would work as a wideangle on Contax/Mamiya/PhaseOne MF digital camera with the PhaseOne P65+, which is full frame 645.

09-06-2010, 05:44 PM	#7
surfotog Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Honolulu Posts: 150	A 30mm lens on the 645D would be the equivalent of a 24mm on a FF 35mm sensor. I hope Pentax is working on a WA tilt for the 645D. This camera will be popular with landscape photographers, and a WA tilt would sell well IMHO.

09-06-2010, 06:39 PM	#8
RawheaD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: MA, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 831	Originally posted by surfotog A 30mm lens on the 645D would be the equivalent of a 24mm on a FF 35mm sensor. I hope Pentax is working on a WA tilt for the 645D. This camera will be popular with landscape photographers, and a WA tilt would sell well IMHO. We're getting the mm's all mixed up here On film, the Hartlbei 45mm is a wide angle lens. In terms of diagonal angle of view, it's like a 30mm lens on a full frame, 135 format (35mm) camera (I guess more like 28mm). But because the 645D has a roughly 1.3x "crop factor", it's going to be the equivalent of a 37mm lens on 135 format (35mm). So a Canon 5D with a Hartblei 35mm f2.8 tilt shift lens is going to have a wider FOV than the 645D with the Hartblei 45mm f3.5. Regarding Pentax, they've had shift lenses before, but never tilt lenses, so I think it's not going to happen.

09-06-2010, 06:54 PM	#9
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by RawheaD ...I think the only way you can have a truly wideangle tilt/shift on medium format digital is to use a Hasselblad ArcBody with a digital back, and the widest 35mm Grandagon lens. Also the Hartlbei 45/4.5 would work as a wideangle on Contax/Mamiya/PhaseOne MF digital camera with the PhaseOne P65+, which is full frame 645. The ArcBody would be a good solution or a digital back on a 2x3 or 4x5 view camera. Either way, the digital back is going to be the major expense. There several other options on the high end including cameras like the Cambo Wide RS which supports lenses as short as 28mm, has vert/horiz shift (geared!) and can be configured to add swing/tilt. Unfortunately, if you need to ask the price, you obviously can't afford it! Steve

09-06-2010, 07:55 PM	#10
surfotog Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Honolulu Posts: 150	RawheaD wrote: "so a Canon 5D with a 35/2.8 tilt shift is going to have a wider FOV than the 645D with the hartblei 45mmf/3.5. Not really, the simple way to figure the 35mm equivalent FOV with the 645D is to multiply focal length by .8. 45mm x.8= 36mm. So the 45mm on a 645D will have almost exactly the same FOV as the 35mm lens on the 5D. According to the Canadian Pentax rep who did the LL interview, an ultrawide will be announced soon. As I remember seeing on the pentax roadmap it will be a 25mm, equivalent to a 20mm on your 5D.

09-06-2010, 10:34 PM	#11
erick Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 18 Original Poster	Originally posted by surfotog A 30mm lens on the 645D would be the equivalent of a 24mm on a FF 35mm sensor. I hope Pentax is working on a WA tilt for the 645D. This camera will be popular with landscape photographers, and a WA tilt would sell well IMHO. I cannot imagine shooting Architecture Landscape without a tilt shift lens, wide of course

09-08-2010, 06:24 AM	#12
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Originally posted by erick I cannot imagine shooting Architecture Landscape without a tilt shift lens, wide of course It depends, if it's just for perspective correction, computer can do well (including correcting barrrel distorsion) Now, if you need to master DOF, while not closing too much down (the tilt feature) then it can't really be replaced. Anyway, tilt-shift lenses are specialty items, very desirable for their features but a MF tilt shift would not be something affordable by you average pro-photographer... Since, Pentax wants to address the "amateur" market first...

09-08-2010, 09:05 AM	#13
wkkato Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Irvine Posts: 53	I have a couple of these, the original tilt/shift 45 Hartblei and the newer Hartblei Super Rotator TS 45mm. There are a couple of problems in using the TS lens that have nothing to do with the lens and how wide it is but have to do with the viewfinder of the P645 which only shows something like 89% or 85% of the picture taken. So you tilt and shift, compose and focus, and when you get the slide or negs back you have found out that you lost a good chunk of your composition to vignetting due to the shift and the limited viewfinder. Of course you don't see any less that what you shot but you've lost a great deal of real estate. I will be glad to get the 645D which apparently has a 100% viewfinder.

09-08-2010, 09:12 AM	#14
erick Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 18 Original Poster	there is no liveview on the 645D ?

09-08-2010, 05:00 PM	#15
RawheaD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: MA, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 831	Originally posted by surfotog RawheaD wrote: Not really, the simple way to figure the 35mm equivalent FOV with the 645D is to multiply focal length by .8. 45mm x.8= 36mm. So the 45mm on a 645D will have almost exactly the same FOV as the 35mm lens on the 5D. Thanks for the formula, but I did do my own calculation and came up with 37mm, so we're saying the same thing. The fact is, a 5D + 35mm Super Rot (or the Canon/Nikon 35mm tilt shift lenses) is going to give you pretty much the same thing as a 645D + 45mm Super Rot, and so the only advantage of the 645D is going to be the higher resolution. At 4x the cost :-)