Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-26-2010, 03:36 AM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lithuania
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 490
645D & Canon

A funny thing has happened, Since Canon policy always was that:

the bigger the sensor the more of a pro you are.

We see such a tendency, that canon mainly values the size of the sensor, and since a camera doesn't use Full frame, no matter how advanced its controls and features are, it is never going to be considered as a serious camera.

So... this unwillingly puts them into a trap. 645D camera's sensor is bigger than a full frame, and many Canon Pro's as taught by canon see it as a more professional camera than their 1ds's.

The most pro, Canon users that I know of, looking at 645d with big eyes, and they are kind of dreaming about it. so Canon made "Pentax medium format" a favor.

however.. It might be so, that canon themselves are noticing it, and will start working on their own medium format.. I believe, such rumors already exists.. and I believe, if, they will make one, they'll make it really good.

however2 Canon doesn't not have any lenses for medium format yet..

Well pentax should manufacture more 645d and of course work on a second generation one, to quicker attract those who, have $ and will..

what are your ideas?

09-26-2010, 03:56 AM   #2
Veteran Member
RawheaD's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: MA, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 831
Canon entering the medium format world would be as bad a move as Hasselblad entering the FF DSLR market. Which is to say, it's not going to happen. At most, Canon *might* consider the niche that Leica S2 is trying to create/take up.
09-26-2010, 04:42 AM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lithuania
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 490
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Canon entering the medium format world would be as bad a move as Hasselblad entering the FF DSLR market. Which is to say, it's not going to happen. At most, Canon *might* consider the niche that Leica S2 is trying to create/take up.
Could you clarify, that niche? and what are comparable sensor sizes of 645d and Leica S2?
09-26-2010, 07:23 AM   #4
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
Well a second generation of the 645D would likely host the 50 megapixel CCD sensor from Kodak since it uses the same electronic ploatform as the 40 megapixel. A CMOS sensor would be nice but not in production by anyone.

The 645D is a slow camera, that is not nessecary a bad thing, but it would be nice to have it with a faster CPU.

A bigger screen would also be nice, but that would meen a new design, so not likely. There is room enough for a large 4 inch or bigger screen.

A new design housing could also be a lot smaller, because it is relatively large for hosting a big sensor and electronics.

09-26-2010, 07:40 AM   #5
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lithuania
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 490
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well a second generation of the 645D would likely host the 50 megapixel CCD sensor from Kodak since it uses the same electronic ploatform as the 40 megapixel. A CMOS sensor would be nice but not in production by anyone.

The 645D is a slow camera, that is not nessecary a bad thing, but it would be nice to have it with a faster CPU.

A bigger screen would also be nice, but that would meen a new design, so not likely. There is room enough for a large 4 inch or bigger screen.

A new design housing could also be a lot smaller, because it is relatively large for hosting a big sensor and electronics.
I hope pentax will not use the existing 50mpx sensor from kodak, I hope kodak, will invest in R&D departament, and create something more contemporary, like sony aps-c sensors are.. or pentax would sign some contract with sony, and sony would manufacture their exmor cmos medium format sensor.. that' be even more awesome..

since the replacement to 645d will come at least in two years in my understanding.. so, at that moment sensor technology should be different, from one kodak used in the existing 645d.

and to my understanding, such things as buffer, processor and sensor should be replaced in every new camera model. Otherwise camera become not responsive enough. and if the camera costs at around 10 000 then it is a must.

we can justify pentax for using same buffer and processor from K-5, K-7, K-x and K-r, but these are 10 times less expensive cameras.. and pentax search for ways to save costs..

what matters camera size and lcd size, yeah, there is room for improvement, and as we can see, pentax is an expert in this area.. aps-c format cameras, are a clear example on, how pentax efficiently uses space inside the camera housing..
09-26-2010, 07:55 AM   #6
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The 645D is a slow camera, that is not nessecary a bad thing, but it would be nice to have it with a faster CPU.
when I tested the 645D Image review was on par with the competition in the MF market, perhaps a tad slower. Medium format digital/film cameras were never designed for the kind of frame rates that are commonplace in the 35mm DSLR market

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
A new design housing could also be a lot smaller, because it is relatively large for hosting a big sensor and electronics.
the 645D is actually pretty damn small for a MF camera,and it is Very well balanced and ergonomically well thought out. If you compare it to the mamiya 645 AFD which, incidentally has the ergonomics of a pregnant pentax 67 it shows how compact 645D is by comparison.
09-26-2010, 08:52 AM   #7
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
when I tested the 645D Image review was on par with the competition in the MF market, perhaps a tad slower. Medium format digital/film cameras were never designed for the kind of frame rates that are commonplace in the 35mm DSLR market.
Not so much for hi framerate, because the current sensor doesn't support more then 1.1 fps. With the H4D-40 you can make 60 frames in one minute, and I think that the 645D stops at 20 frames in one minute due to being slower with all the electronics inside (CPU, DDR-2, SDHC). To change that there is a lot to be altered.



QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
the 645D is actually pretty damn small for a MF camera,and it is Very well balanced and ergonomically well thought out. If you compare it to the mamiya 645 AFD which, incidentally has the ergonomics of a pregnant pentax 67 it shows how compact 645D is by comparison.
When I look at this picture I see a lot of obsolute space. I handled the 645D fora short time and true it's great to handle, but I wouldn't mind if it was just a little smaller.

http://en.akihabaranews.com/?gallery=1&post=39218&origine=39218&image=008


Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 09-26-2010 at 09:03 AM.
09-26-2010, 06:04 PM   #8
Veteran Member
RawheaD's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: MA, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 831
QuoteOriginally posted by Mystic Quote
Could you clarify, that niche? and what are comparable sensor sizes of 645d and Leica S2?
The niche, to my understanding, is "non-medium format gigantic sensor SLR" :-D


Basically, it's a niche that says "Look, so long as *full-size* medium format sensors are currently outrageously expensive, and so everybody is using *crop* sensors, it's meaningless to stick to the legacy medium format system (the mount, backward compatibility with legacy lenses, etc.). Instead, let's create a whole new system built around a currently "budget" size sensor (30mm x 45mm)"

Theoretically, such a niche/system would be (and probably is) better than the top of the line FF DSLR (D3x, 1Ds Mk 3), AND be potentially better than current digital medium format systems that are based on legacy standards. Because maintaining backwards compatibility only puts limits on the new system.

Because Canon doesn't have a legacy in the MF arena (much in the same way that Leica didn't have a legacy in that area), they can go out and design a body/system/mount that takes full advantage of the sensor/size that they would use.


It's a little bit like micro-4/3 and Panasonic. Because Panny doesn't have a legacy in 35mm, they didn't have to think for a second about backwards compatibility with their legacy lenses. That allowed them to go full-on and start designing an ecosystem that is purely built around the micro-4/3 sensor.

09-27-2010, 08:10 AM   #9
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
When I look at this picture I see a lot of obsolute space
with a sensor that big you will want to give it some room to let the heat dissipate or do you really want a sensor that needs active cooling system that will in all probability let in dust and dirt into such an expensive camera?

44mmX33mm sensors are actually rather popular amongst the Medium format digital crowd with even fewer people that are able to afford the full frame 645 digital sensors. I say it is a good compromise, and with pentax's legacy lens support they have a have the ability to incorporate a full frame 645 sensor on the future.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
With the H4D-40 you can make 60 frames in one minute
yes it can but you had better have the memory card speed and capacity to handle that rate. however the handling of the 645D is superior to the hasselblad H4D IMO and we don't have to deal with that stupid phocus software...

Last edited by Digitalis; 09-27-2010 at 08:17 AM.
10-01-2010, 11:04 AM   #10
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
however the handling of the 645D is superior to the hasselblad H4D IMO
I agree for holding the camera with you. But looking true the viewfinder gives a different view. The 645D is cool compared to K-7, but H4D (had the 65 megapixel in my hands) was like looking out the window. Great view.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645d, camera, canon, frame, medium, medium format, sensor
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 & 645D photos fs999 Pentax News and Rumors 100 10-07-2010 10:58 PM
Pentax 645D vs Nikon vs Canon yurihuta Pentax Medium Format 4 04-23-2010 03:44 PM
For Sale - Sold: DA & FA Limiteds, F50, 360 flash, ZX-7... and a Canon XT Albert Siegel Sold Items 11 02-19-2009 06:47 PM
For Sale - Sold: Pentax K200D Body & SMC DA 16-45mm Lens and AF540FGZ Flash & Canon 40D All Br walay Sold Items 11 07-29-2008 10:57 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:41 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top