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10-21-2010, 08:21 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by claudefiddler Quote
I know David to be articulate, helpful and very knowledgeable about MFD and other digital capture camera systems. Obviously he's very familiar with and a fan of the the Leica S2.

If you read his blog you'll find out a lot about the Leica. I think he gushes too much about the S2 and glosses over what I feel are some problems with the camera. But as far as image quality the S2 has proven to be a stunning performer. Lenses that are absolutely sharp corner to corner, wide open. Probably the best glass in the world.

That said the 645D should be able to produce results of equal quality. As far as sensors go I believe they're the same. So the question becomes one of the glass and camera mechanics. If the 645D has a vibration problem, it's toast. Based on samples that would show up as consistent blur. As far glass goes, stopping down the lens, (Diffraction isn't going to matter in a print. I've seen Joe Holmes work at f 20 with his Phase/Mamiya and diffraction's not a problem in a print and the proof is in the print pudding in my book) is going to level the glass playing field as far as corner to corner sharpness is concerned.

And I've looked at TONS of prints from my good friend Robert Ketchum's 645 and Velvia. I don't know what Bob used for glass but the cibachromes at 32x40 were spectacular.

The 645D with 2 cards that can be used as back-up, the battery life, the ability to work in harsh conditions, the layout of the controls, the lens selection, the distortion correction, all point to a fantastic camera/lens system.

David isn't bashing the product, he's pointing out potential problems. Or call his comments throwing down the gauntlet if you will. The Leica S2 has proven itself with rigorous testing and samples. The 645D should be able to do the same. The ball is in the 645D's court to prove David wrong.

Claude Fiddler.
Not doubting anyone and i agree, David certainly wasn't bashing Pentax i read his posts as "observations" and it's that one particular observation that has me a little worried as i handhold for most of my shooting mostly portraits (environmental) the last thing i want is added vibration on a shot. I actually waited a couple of days since David's blog post before posting here and only because no one else has mentioned this at least the posts i've been looking at referring to the 645D.

10-21-2010, 11:02 PM   #17
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I don't see any problems at all. Look at these:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-medium-format-645-6x7-645d/118800-...e-morning.html
10-21-2010, 11:22 PM   #18
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I had a short test drive of the 645D earlier today. As quiet as it is, I was unable to hear anything over the sound of it's awesomeness.
In a nutshell, it is very quiet, and very smooth. The images it makes are big, bold and beautiful.
The rep had the body and new 55mm lens as well as an older 200mm and a macro lens (sorry, don't know what it's FL was). I used all three lenses in an outdoor, well lit area, so I wasn't testing the capabilities of the camera WRT it's low light performance.
However, it is truly a gem of a camera.
10-22-2010, 03:08 AM   #19
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If no one else has mentioned the phantom "shutter shudder" perhaps it isn't there.

10-22-2010, 03:58 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clicker Quote
Can anyone here who is/has tested the 645D comment on those comments?

For those who read their site, they're basically Leica users BUT from the samples i see here from users this particular statement from their brief use at Photokina has me shaking my head, i've always respected their knowledge but this just doesn't seem at all very unbiased?

i used the camera at photokina. i have used the kit lens and some older lenses, included the 400 56....
the kit lens is fast ...clearly is always medium format and the focus is still slower in low light than a dslr, but i havent noticed any great slowness..the fa 400 and held focus pretty fast, sometimes it hunted when losong focus, but consider it's my first attempt to the camera.
the results ar egreat. dont believe those leica user. the leica wil end up as a nice tool for rich pčeople mostly.
i have tried all the mf, pentax is clera that is worrying many of the mf producer.

hassy:

brick, weight a tons, ridicolous lcd screen ( a rep told me not to use it for reviewing),
nice lenses, weight a tons even the lenses, good choiche of new lenses, price is good but still far higher than pentax. mostly a studio camera with good tethered
good af with the af mechanism for recomposing, very nice addition

leica s

brick. weight a tons. the lens are all metal barrel lens, the kit is superbly made. viewfinder on par with pentax. only one focus point. focus not so fast as claimed.
iq great ( but i thnk the pentax is no slouch here). cost: a three system set u 35000 euro. good luck.- for me a camera for collector and rich people. the truth in studio is behind the hassy and phase one for tethering, in the field is behind the pentax for portabiloty and choiche of lenses,

pentax

is a big 35, not so bigger than d3x. what can i add more? the other are unconventional brick camera. the pentax is a weather sealed k7 in steroids. great for fields and outdoor shooting ( pentax must release Leaf sync lenses absolutely), but also in studio with eye fi card and sdouble slot.
the iq quality will be the same as leica and hassy, same sensor, and i think pentax has shown great skills in using sensor to producing great IQ.
10-22-2010, 04:02 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by darr Quote
I think comparing a $10,000 MF to a $23,000 MF would be bias from the start.
Darr

if you had three lenses and some accesories..the leica s will cost 40000 euro...and still no back up camera.
iq will be very similar, i personally was surprised of the slow af of leica, and nosiy af too. they claim the best af in mf market. just one centrall point for 50000 euro.
10-22-2010, 04:11 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I had a short test drive of the 645D earlier today. As quiet as it is, I was unable to hear anything over the sound of it's awesomeness.
In a nutshell, it is very quiet, and very smooth. The images it makes are big, bold and beautiful.
The rep had the body and new 55mm lens as well as an older 200mm and a macro lens (sorry, don't know what it's FL was). I used all three lenses in an outdoor, well lit area, so I wasn't testing the capabilities of the camera WRT it's low light performance.
However, it is truly a gem of a camera.
i have bought waiting for my 645 d

the 150 2,8
200 f4
300 f5,6
400 f 56
45
75
1,4 converter
pentax 67 135 macro

ready to buyt other lenses

all for 2500 euro...half the cost of a leica s lens.
im sure theses lenses will be bright and superb with 645d, especially now that lightroom has all the preset for every single lens to correct ca and distortion.
i dont dopubt leica s are better, but how much? the pentax fa 35 was once the best 645 wide angle lens. so pentax know something in mformat lenses.
they are coming pout with a 28 spectacular lens that will cost not so much, and still far less than leica s lenses. the leica are ll metal. i found all metal lenses too uncomfortable and too much weight to stroll around. the 55 is not al l metal, but still a great sdm fast light lens to stroll around in outdoor photography.

if you analyze a system u must put price / quality ratio in perspective. pentax is miles aheda leica. that's why a leica vendor is a bit upset using a pentax 645d. at the end he sells leica.

what is amazing of pentax are:

- feel and usability of camera...leica is a PAIN..4 button and a wheel...i have been taught by a rep about changing setting with leica...clearly a pain, i think they should ask pentax to design the camera ergonomics next time

- iso up 800...iso 1600 in 645 d is superb. leica above iso 400 is poor.
10-22-2010, 05:18 AM   #23
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Okay guys I didn't start this thread to start a brand war; this thread is asking current users and testers and those who have had hands on time with the 645D to verify if possible similar findings as David's nothing more please let's keep our biases in check I have been waiting as many of you for this camera and have had NO time at all with it so your findings are very important to a potential/future users. Comparisons are great there is no avoiding that but let's just leave it at that ( a comparison ) the opinions and thoughts expressed so far haven't swayed me from my future purchase but I will have to rethink how I will shoot with the 645D remember I am only an enthusiast my images are for personal use.

10-22-2010, 05:38 AM   #24
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Clicker, since no one else who has used the camera seems to have found the same problem that Mr Farkas did, it's simply unlikely that it exists. Given that assumption it is natural for everyone else to assume some bias on his part. There is also the possibility that the 645D being demo'd was screwed up by being passed around to several hundred "reviewers" half of whom certainly mucked with countless settings. Heck the camera might have had multiple personalities by the time it got to him.

As for the prints being "lackluster." Every camera has unique qualities which must be accounted for in processing or prints. If he made his print using profiles from his Leicas then it would be natural to see a diff which he could interpret as "lackluster."

Mike
10-22-2010, 06:46 AM   #25
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Another thing to remember is a lot of stuff happens in postprocessing w/ MF cameras. E.g., Leica counts on Capture One to do their demosaicing. Capture One probably has special RAW profiles for import as well. I doubt any of those companies have had time to tweak for the 645D.
Lackluster colors is something that can be fixed in post. Sharpness can to some degree as well, but should never need to be because MF cameras don't have an AA filter which causes lack of sharpness on DSLRs...
10-22-2010, 10:54 AM   #26
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for me its clear that what is missing in pentax headquarter is somebody who know how to make marketing.

i was at photokina and there were a lot of print put in the desk casually, a loto of confusion, print that were bended by user...and not great photos in some cases...leica hasd a pro photog doing an exhibition with meter per meter print. all elegant, everything gave a feeling of a good brand.
in addition the lens problem.

why notclearly states the availablity of tall the lineup?
why not release a roadmap of 3 years with 5 7 lenses released, like tilt and shift and leaf lenses?
the current line up is grea, just 4 new lenses for special photography and the system is complete and solid, at least on par with mamiya, that use many of the old film lenses plus some 4 new dedicate digital lenses.
instead nobody out there doesnt have a clue on this. just a wide angle will be release.
10-22-2010, 01:19 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
for me its clear that what is missing in pentax headquarter is somebody who know how to make marketing.
This has been repeatedly demonstrated. It's a mystery why they make such great gear if they don't intend to, you know, actually sell them.
10-22-2010, 02:02 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Another thing to remember is a lot of stuff happens in postprocessing w/ MF cameras. E.g., Leica counts on Capture One to do their demosaicing. Capture One probably has special RAW profiles for import as well. I doubt any of those companies have had time to tweak for the 645D.
Lackluster colors is something that can be fixed in post. Sharpness can to some degree as well, but should never need to be because MF cameras don't have an AA filter which causes lack of sharpness on DSLRs...
Actually, the S2 (& M9) ship with Lightroom 3. The love affair between Leica & Phase One went south before the S2 launch.

For the record, I have gathered numerous Pentax 645D RAW files to experiment with in my workflow. I am happy to report that the 645D fits nicely into the way I do things with little changes. Hassy, Phase & Leaf files all cause me gas because I have to utilize a specialized software tool in order to get the most out of their files. I'm not saying that Phocus or Capture One are bad, its just that my workflow centers around Lightroom and Aperture (depending on the type of job) with their associated plugins and tools.

Which leads me to another reason I am keenly interested in the 645D: I can use a lot of the peripherals I already have for my Nikon D700 and Leica M8. Radio triggers, Eye-fi cards, my el-cheapo studio strobes, etc, do not have to be be replaced with kit that costs thousands of dollars more.

Last edited by etrigan63; 10-22-2010 at 02:12 PM.
10-22-2010, 02:36 PM   #29
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Hi Carlos,

Since you've actually worked with 645D raw files, have you had the opportunity to compare them with raw files from other MFDB's? Over on the Getdpi forums, several people who have experience with numerous MFDB's say the pentax files are a notch below, quality wise. Some attribute this to the fact that Pentax files are 14 bit, and other MFDB's are 16bit. This is not to say the Pentax files are bad, only that they resemble files from a high MP DSLR, rather than medium format.

I'm not slamming Pentax, as a longtime 67 system user, I want this camera to be great, but I want to know how it compares to other digital MF cameras. After the camera starts selling in the US, I hope will see some in depth comparisons.

Scott
10-22-2010, 04:55 PM   #30
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Surftogo

Could you post Getdpi link where folks are claiming 645D is a notch below...That's a curious statement in that it doesn't say anything. Notch below in sharpness, can't say anything about dynamic range unless both cameras are set up at the same time, on the same subject and shot the same way, notch below with focus accuracy.....notch below....what???

My guess is that the notch below is an elusive and subjective opinion as opposed to veifiable fact.

That being said the 645D is taking a beating where it matters most; image quality.

Thanks

Claude Fiddler
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