Anybody: Lending Lens to digLloyd for Serious 645D Testing?

leping · 12-02-2010, 09:10 PM

I hope you all know or heard about Lloyd Chambers, who run his vastly informative digLloyd web site, which has long surpassed the others, including luminous-landscape, in quality, coverage, and credibility, in regarding to digital equipment testing:

diglloyd.com blog: November 2010

In recent months, diglloyd conducted very detailed comparison tests over cameras in the Pentax 645D's league: Hasselblad H4D, Leica S2, and Nikon D3x, etc. Now, in a week or so, B&H Photo Video of New York is going to lend him a 645D for testing, along with the new 55mm/f2.8.

The problem is, he will not have any other P645 lens in hand to test on the 645D, while all of us are waiting eagerly to learn how our old FA lenses performs on the 40MP sensor.

As a long time friend of Lloyd, and contributer to the site, I would like to ask if anyone with decent FA samples of the 120mm macro, 45-85mm and 80-160mm zoom, and possibly 35mm wide angle and 300mm ED IF telephoto, could generously contact Mr. Lloyd to offer him your lens for testing. I believe that, for exchange, he could pass you access to his unique paid DAP, digital infrared, or/and Zeiss lens reviews, which has been indespensible to the world's leading professional photographers, tons of valuable information.

I am a long time and well-published P67 shooter, but unfortunately I do not have these 645 lens yet, and for the understandable reason Lloyd is not considering testing 67 lenses on the 645D body through an adapter. Check out my (mostly) P67 works at my site:

www.lepingzha.com

Thank you very much for your attentions to this matter.

Leping

Last edited by leping; 12-03-2010 at 08:52 AM.

Adam · 12-03-2010, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by leping

B&H Photo Video of New York is going to lend him a 645D for testing, along with the new 55mm/f2.8.

Is this date confirmed? I talked with B&H today and they said they'll get us one as soon as they have it, but that they haven't gotten a date from their buyer yet. All we have to work with is Pentax's "available in December" claim.

Tim Wilson · 12-03-2010, 05:49 AM

This is interesting to me on a couple levels. First, I learned yesterday that B&H is expecting to receive two 645Ds in the next few days and that I'll be getting one of them. Maybe the other one is Lloyd's loaner. Second, in preparation, I've recently bought some lenses, including a new-in-box 45-85 AF from Samy's and a used 120 FA macro from one of the forum members here. As I don't have a camera to test these on yet, I can't attest to their quality, except to say that they seem excellent to me mechanically. I think I'd be interested in loaning these to Mr Chambers for his tests. Perhaps you can contact me via private message.

Tim Wilson

Thomas · 12-03-2010, 05:54 AM

Adam:

Although I have no idea when B&H will receive a 645D, FWIW I can tell you that I pre-ordered a 645D two days after the announcement of the 645D appeared on the Pentax website (so presumably my order is one of the earlier ones). When I ordered, the product page indicated delivery was expected in December, the page now says February. I contacted Pentax customer service and they responded indicating a January 15 arrival date.

diglloyd · 12-03-2010, 09:51 AM

Latest: I'm told the 645D body should be "very soon".

Bad new: the 55/2.8 might be slower to arrive, which is a shame because it's likely to be the best lens on it (not so sure that older designs are up to the challenge of 40MP digital).

Are there MTF charts for the existing Pentwax FA lenses anywhere?

diglloyd · 12-03-2010, 09:52 AM

Seems my previous post went into /dev/null.

I prefer contact via regular email (I don't check PM):
diglloyd.com: Contact

leping · 12-03-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by diglloyd

Are there MTF charts for the existing Pentwax FA lenses anywhere?

The only place I am aware with some non-official measured MTF charts is:

Camera Lens Search - Find Camera Lenses

- serch with "Pentax 645" and "Pentax 645 AF" on;
- those few with a "Photodo MTF" score are the ones for which MTF charts are available.
- Select "Image" tab to see the charts, and click charts to see larger rendering.

They do have a few of the MTF curves for some Mamiya, Contax, Fuji, and Hasselblad MF lenses there though.

Leping

Last edited by leping; 12-03-2010 at 10:50 PM.

diglloyd · 12-03-2010, 06:42 PM

Thanks Leping.

It seems I can't get an eval camera— I can buy one, but that's a big investment, and I have too much gear already. Mulling it over.

Looking at those MTF charts, it sure doesn't look like any of the lenses (none) will be able to deliver what that 40MP sensor needs. When I worked with the Hasselblad H4D-50, same problem. The only MF I've used so far whose lenses are up to sensor snuff is the Leica S2.

leping · 12-03-2010, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by diglloyd

It seems I can't get an eval camera— I can buy one, but that's a big investment, and I have too much gear already. Mulling it over.

I bet many in the forum would buy your eval camera after testing, maybe me included.

If the sensor is not well aligned, or the body has any issues, you can return to B&H. Otherwise I can see a fight...

Lens resolution and evenness across the frame: from the existing (Japanese) samples these are not things to worry about.

diglloyd · 12-08-2010, 09:59 PM

I just received the new 55mm f/2.8 lens. It has internal scratches, quite unbelievable.

diglloyd.com blog: December 2010

Emanuele_C · 12-09-2010, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by diglloyd

I just received the new 55mm f/2.8 lens. It has internal scratches, quite unbelievable.

diglloyd.com blog: December 2010

Well, I would say "discouraging", especially for people like me that are very interested to acquire a 645D but are at their "first experience" with this brand.

Emanuele

diglloyd · 12-09-2010, 11:07 AM

I have a 2nd sample arriving tomorrow.

I have an update from Pentax, including and acknowledgment that this is a lens cement issue, albeit claimed to not affect image quality.
diglloyd.com blog: December 2010

Thomas · 12-10-2010, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by diglloyd

I just received the new 55mm f/2.8 lens. It has internal scratches, quite unbelievable.

diglloyd.com blog: December 2010

On a positive note: it appears Pentax is not attempting to influence the test results by cherry-picking a particularly good sample to be sent to you.

ghelary · 12-10-2010, 08:57 AM

Sample variation is a "known" issue and I think Lloyd Chambers is an authority on this. Well he is one of the few serious sources about it. Even DXO don't mention it when performing their lense/body ratings.

I would be curious to see him testing those 2 samples. 645D is the first attempt in year to a truly professional system, so tolerances shall be tighten and I would expect a full testing of MTF and other things at the end of the assembly before shipping to customers.

Well, one expects that, but for a MF lens, the 55/2.8 is a bargain and since Pentax is in shortsupply of bodies and lenses, the temptation must be great to ship eveything.

eddie1960 · 12-10-2010, 09:30 AM

remember also that short supply on the bodies and lenses has everything to dowith how small the market is. they will devote the most time and energy to ensuring product is made for the kr and lower market, and the less expensive product. 645D is a halo product for them, but likely is not going to be a profit generator for quite a while, possibly never at least on the level of say the kx or kr
we get a little deluded on the forums based on what we would buy and like, but the big volume for all the camera guys is entry level and that pays the bills
the rest helps drive sales of the entry level (canon is a bloody master at this - though they make little that tempts me)

12-02-2010, 09:10 PM	#1
leping Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 82	Anybody: Lending Lens to digLloyd for Serious 645D Testing? I hope you all know or heard about Lloyd Chambers, who run his vastly informative digLloyd web site, which has long surpassed the others, including luminous-landscape, in quality, coverage, and credibility, in regarding to digital equipment testing: diglloyd.com blog: November 2010 In recent months, diglloyd conducted very detailed comparison tests over cameras in the Pentax 645D's league: Hasselblad H4D, Leica S2, and Nikon D3x, etc. Now, in a week or so, B&H Photo Video of New York is going to lend him a 645D for testing, along with the new 55mm/f2.8. The problem is, he will not have any other P645 lens in hand to test on the 645D, while all of us are waiting eagerly to learn how our old FA lenses performs on the 40MP sensor. As a long time friend of Lloyd, and contributer to the site, I would like to ask if anyone with decent FA samples of the 120mm macro, 45-85mm and 80-160mm zoom, and possibly 35mm wide angle and 300mm ED IF telephoto, could generously contact Mr. Lloyd to offer him your lens for testing. I believe that, for exchange, he could pass you access to his unique paid DAP, digital infrared, or/and Zeiss lens reviews, which has been indespensible to the world's leading professional photographers, tons of valuable information. I am a long time and well-published P67 shooter, but unfortunately I do not have these 645 lens yet, and for the understandable reason Lloyd is not considering testing 67 lenses on the 645D body through an adapter. Check out my (mostly) P67 works at my site: www.lepingzha.com Thank you very much for your attentions to this matter. Leping Last edited by leping; 12-03-2010 at 08:52 AM.

12-03-2010, 12:07 AM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by leping B&H Photo Video of New York is going to lend him a 645D for testing, along with the new 55mm/f2.8. Is this date confirmed? I talked with B&H today and they said they'll get us one as soon as they have it, but that they haven't gotten a date from their buyer yet. All we have to work with is Pentax's "available in December" claim. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

12-03-2010, 05:49 AM	#3
Tim Wilson Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 54	This is interesting to me on a couple levels. First, I learned yesterday that B&H is expecting to receive two 645Ds in the next few days and that I'll be getting one of them. Maybe the other one is Lloyd's loaner. Second, in preparation, I've recently bought some lenses, including a new-in-box 45-85 AF from Samy's and a used 120 FA macro from one of the forum members here. As I don't have a camera to test these on yet, I can't attest to their quality, except to say that they seem excellent to me mechanically. I think I'd be interested in loaning these to Mr Chambers for his tests. Perhaps you can contact me via private message. Tim Wilson Last edited by Tim Wilson; 12-03-2010 at 07:42 AM.

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12-03-2010, 05:54 AM	#4
Thomas Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 434	Adam: Although I have no idea when B&H will receive a 645D, FWIW I can tell you that I pre-ordered a 645D two days after the announcement of the 645D appeared on the Pentax website (so presumably my order is one of the earlier ones). When I ordered, the product page indicated delivery was expected in December, the page now says February. I contacted Pentax customer service and they responded indicating a January 15 arrival date.

12-03-2010, 09:51 AM	#5
diglloyd New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portola Valley, CA Posts: 13	Latest: I'm told the 645D body should be "very soon". Bad new: the 55/2.8 might be slower to arrive, which is a shame because it's likely to be the best lens on it (not so sure that older designs are up to the challenge of 40MP digital). Are there MTF charts for the existing Pentwax FA lenses anywhere?

12-03-2010, 09:52 AM	#6
diglloyd New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portola Valley, CA Posts: 13	Seems my previous post went into /dev/null. I prefer contact via regular email (I don't check PM): diglloyd.com: Contact

12-03-2010, 01:25 PM	#7
leping Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 82 Original Poster	Originally posted by diglloyd Are there MTF charts for the existing Pentwax FA lenses anywhere? The only place I am aware with some non-official measured MTF charts is: Camera Lens Search - Find Camera Lenses - serch with "Pentax 645" and "Pentax 645 AF" on; - those few with a "Photodo MTF" score are the ones for which MTF charts are available. - Select "Image" tab to see the charts, and click charts to see larger rendering. They do have a few of the MTF curves for some Mamiya, Contax, Fuji, and Hasselblad MF lenses there though. Leping Last edited by leping; 12-03-2010 at 10:50 PM.

12-03-2010, 06:42 PM	#8
diglloyd New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portola Valley, CA Posts: 13	Thanks Leping. It seems I can't get an eval camera— I can buy one, but that's a big investment, and I have too much gear already. Mulling it over. Looking at those MTF charts, it sure doesn't look like any of the lenses (none) will be able to deliver what that 40MP sensor needs. When I worked with the Hasselblad H4D-50, same problem. The only MF I've used so far whose lenses are up to sensor snuff is the Leica S2.

12-03-2010, 11:10 PM	#9
leping Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 82 Original Poster	Originally posted by diglloyd It seems I can't get an eval camera— I can buy one, but that's a big investment, and I have too much gear already. Mulling it over. I bet many in the forum would buy your eval camera after testing, maybe me included. If the sensor is not well aligned, or the body has any issues, you can return to B&H. Otherwise I can see a fight... Lens resolution and evenness across the frame: from the existing (Japanese) samples these are not things to worry about.

12-08-2010, 09:59 PM	#10
diglloyd New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portola Valley, CA Posts: 13	I just received the new 55mm f/2.8 lens. It has internal scratches, quite unbelievable. diglloyd.com blog: December 2010

12-09-2010, 12:50 AM	#11
Emanuele_C Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4	Originally posted by diglloyd I just received the new 55mm f/2.8 lens. It has internal scratches, quite unbelievable. diglloyd.com blog: December 2010 Well, I would say "discouraging", especially for people like me that are very interested to acquire a 645D but are at their "first experience" with this brand. Emanuele

12-09-2010, 11:07 AM	#12
diglloyd New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portola Valley, CA Posts: 13	I have a 2nd sample arriving tomorrow. I have an update from Pentax, including and acknowledgment that this is a lens cement issue, albeit claimed to not affect image quality. diglloyd.com blog: December 2010

12-10-2010, 07:03 AM	#13
Thomas Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 434	Originally posted by diglloyd I just received the new 55mm f/2.8 lens. It has internal scratches, quite unbelievable. diglloyd.com blog: December 2010 On a positive note: it appears Pentax is not attempting to influence the test results by cherry-picking a particularly good sample to be sent to you.

12-10-2010, 08:57 AM	#14
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Sample variation is a "known" issue and I think Lloyd Chambers is an authority on this. Well he is one of the few serious sources about it. Even DXO don't mention it when performing their lense/body ratings. I would be curious to see him testing those 2 samples. 645D is the first attempt in year to a truly professional system, so tolerances shall be tighten and I would expect a full testing of MTF and other things at the end of the assembly before shipping to customers. Well, one expects that, but for a MF lens, the 55/2.8 is a bargain and since Pentax is in shortsupply of bodies and lenses, the temptation must be great to ship eveything.

12-10-2010, 09:30 AM	#15
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	remember also that short supply on the bodies and lenses has everything to dowith how small the market is. they will devote the most time and energy to ensuring product is made for the kr and lower market, and the less expensive product. 645D is a halo product for them, but likely is not going to be a profit generator for quite a while, possibly never at least on the level of say the kx or kr we get a little deluded on the forums based on what we would buy and like, but the big volume for all the camera guys is entry level and that pays the bills the rest helps drive sales of the entry level (canon is a bloody master at this - though they make little that tempts me)