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12-12-2010, 03:47 PM   #1
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Mid Reload

Quick question: I just came across the description "Mid Reload" for Pentax film cameras, including the 645N. But the manual does not mention it. It did mention something I had overlooked: a tiny button which makes it possible to automatically wind the film in mid-roll without exposing it. I assume this is what "Mid Reload" means?

But what is the use of it unless one can reload that exposed film to shoot the unexposed frames? One might as well set the shutter on continuous and shoot the few frames that are there if there not going to be used anyway? Why a button unless... ?

12-14-2010, 03:22 PM   #2
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An in depth read of the manual should tell you that one of the custom settings is to leave the tongue of the film out when rewinding. You can then write on the tongue what the last frame you used was, and advance the film to that point when you put the cartridge back into the camera. The MZ-S has an option to tell the camera on film load how many frames to skip on reload.
12-14-2010, 03:29 PM   #3
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*ist too !
But not with 645N, because the film advances only, so it would be reversed when reloaded...
12-28-2010, 05:34 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
An in depth read of the manual should tell you that one of the custom settings is to leave the tongue of the film out when rewinding
I do not see that in the manual, but perhaps this is the 645N II you are referring to. The manual of the 645N speaks of wind-up only.

03-21-2011, 01:06 PM   #5
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You might want to use a midroll wind-on if you were in a hurry to change films and had another film pre-loaded in its box but otherwise I agree with Smolk.

One issue with the P645/P645N is that there is no detachable back with darkslide as with Mamiya and Bronica but what struck me is the possibility of placing the camera in a changing bag when out in the field and simply extracting the insert and placing into its box(the box is light-tight I presume) then inserting another preloaded film.

Then removing that insert once used or doing so in mid roll as above in the changing bag and re-inserting the former film in its mid roll position and shooting from where you had left off.

I haven't tried it as I have only just got my P645N but can anyone here see a fatal flaw in what I have said?

It's a bit of extra effort which may or may not be worth the effort but it should work shouldn't it?

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03-21-2011, 01:12 PM   #6
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Interesting reply. Two question spring to mind:
1. What happens to the counter if you change this way? Does it start at 0 when you add another insert? Do you need to have the test-back installed in between?
2. Is the manual wind-up light-tight? (As I assume it is, but I never tested this nor found a confirmation).
Although I do have two 645N's, 1 for colour 1 for b&w, I'd still be interested.
03-22-2011, 07:44 AM   #7
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Smolk, good questions to which I have no good answers as I haven't checked what happens to the counter on extraction of the insert but I think it must revert to zero so yes a snag is that the films will have the neg numbering sequence wrong.

Probably not an issue for me as long as I was sure that the boxes are light tight and the changing bag also. Unless we can find someone here who knows the boxes are light tight then it may just cost me a 120 film to find out.

Overall it isn't as convenient as carrying 2x P645s but the latter solution would weigh heavy on my muscles and bank account!

asahijock
03-22-2011, 09:39 AM   #8
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Counter reset to zero and the midroll you re-inserted will be wind to the first frame as if it was a new roll.

I just fire off the rest of the roll and process it

03-22-2011, 01:15 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by D W Quote
Counter reset to zero and the midroll you re-inserted will be wind to the first frame as if it was a new roll.

I just fire off the rest of the roll and process it
I am confused. The midroll you re-insert is at say frame 4 so the camera attempts to move it to frame 1 so where will it wind it forward to? Bear in mind that the film has been extracted mid-roll and placed in its light tight box in a changing bag and re-inserted from the same position again inside a changing bag.

Presumably when you load a new roll and press the shutter to take it to frame 1 the camera detects the film start and then stops the roll? What does it use to detect where to stop when there is both film and backing paper?

If it doesn't use a film detection method but stops after a set length of backing paper then presumably all 120 rolls no matter the make of film(Fuji, Harman or Kodak) are all made with a set and uniform length of backing paper?

If this is the case then re-insertion mid-roll could lose you most of the rest or all of the rest of the film.

If so then it becomes additionally difficult. You'd have to remove the insert in the changing bag then while still in the changing bag manually wind back to the start of the roll making a note of the frame on which you finished, then reload as if it was a new film and fire that number of frames with the cap on. That way you could presumably have the film frame numbers appear as if the roll had never been extracted mid-roll.

So the downside is manually winding back in the changing bag but the upside is that the film can then be inserted in normal light as it is a "new roll"

Comments on all of the above line of thinking welcome. I am trying to learn as much as possible about the workings of the P645N

Thanks

asahijock
Thread: Mid Reload Reply to Thread
03-26-2011, 04:10 PM   #10
D W
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahijock Quote
I am confused. The midroll you re-insert is at say frame 4 so the camera attempts to move it to frame 1 so where will it wind it forward to? Bear in mind that the film has been extracted mid-roll and placed in its light tight box in a changing bag and re-inserted from the same position again inside a changing bag.

Presumably when you load a new roll and press the shutter to take it to frame 1 the camera detects the film start and then stops the roll? What does it use to detect where to stop when there is both film and backing paper?

If it doesn't use a film detection method but stops after a set length of backing paper then presumably all 120 rolls no matter the make of film(Fuji, Harman or Kodak) are all made with a set and uniform length of backing paper?

If this is the case then re-insertion mid-roll could lose you most of the rest or all of the rest of the film.

If so then it becomes additionally difficult. You'd have to remove the insert in the changing bag then while still in the changing bag manually wind back to the start of the roll making a note of the frame on which you finished, then reload as if it was a new film and fire that number of frames with the cap on. That way you could presumably have the film frame numbers appear as if the roll had never been extracted mid-roll.

So the downside is manually winding back in the changing bag but the upside is that the film can then be inserted in normal light as it is a "new roll"

Comments on all of the above line of thinking welcome. I am trying to learn as much as possible about the workings of the P645N

Thanks

asahijock
Thread: Mid Reload Reply to Thread
If you took out insert after frame 5, when you reinsert it the camera will wind the film the distance from the start arrow until frame one is at the film gate. The counter will show "1" but you will be further into the roll.
This method also lose the end of roll count which normally is at 15 or 16. One will be shooting blanks after the film has pulled through but the camera counter still counts the frames as if there is still film.

Manually rewinding the film in a changing bag is very difficult due to 120 film is taped to the backing paper only at the beginning and you are trying to wind the two(film and backing paper together back to the beginning of the roll in two pieces. You will also get some fold over or air bubbles which will lead to light leak at the edge of the roll.
BUT
this way you can reinsert the roll with the start arrow at the right position and fire off frame with the lens cap on to get to where you were.

Back when 120 film was introduced there is a set of standard which determined the distance between the start arrows on the backing paper and the start of the actual film. All 120 camera and back manufacturer use this standard to determine the winding from the arrow to frame 1. It is simple and worked for so long that there is no need to introduce a newer more complicated system of film sensing.

To learn about the makeup of a roll of 120 film you should buy a cheap roll (expired) of 120 film and take it apart in daylight to see how everything is put together.

HTH
03-26-2011, 04:37 PM   #11
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Thanks for that DW. It seems things are as I suspected. Basically not easy to rewind the film but not impossible either. If you can take your time in the changing bag and wind back tightly then it isn't inevitable, is it, that you will get some foldover or air bubbles that will lead to a light leak and if it is only at the rebate then no harm done.

You'd be unlucky if most times you needed/wanted to change films you were still only at the early frames and there was just nothing left to shoot to usefully use the rest of the roll.

asahijock
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