Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-30-2010, 10:37 AM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2008
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 419
645D vs 645N comparison

I’m continuing to test the 645D. I did a comparison of the 645D to a 645N using Provia scanned with a Nikon 9000. In both cases, 120mm FA macro f/11 (manual focus). Focusing is an issue, but I’m satisfied it is not a factor in this comparison. The subject is 3D and I looked carefully at the full images for any difference in focus position. Taken at the same distance so the 645N image is slightly larger than the 645D because of the FOV difference. I'm amazed at the consistent color; no modifications to the files, just sharpening in ACR (I usually open scan files in ACR)
Addendum: First image is 645D, second is 645N, but it is the wrong scan. I did a number of exposures and inadvertently uploaded the wrong one. Correct 645N scan appears in a post below. These are crops (approx. 2 percent of the image). Note that it is as it appears out of camera raw with sharpening set at 70, no PS work at all. My apologies for the mistake and incomplete data. Full image and other tests posted below, including the 645N image after PS work.

Attached Images
   

Last edited by Thomas; 12-31-2010 at 07:21 AM.
12-30-2010, 10:45 AM   #2
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,264
the Provia scan could use a bit of contrast to bring it up to the 645d (i haven't seen the original though so i can't really compare)
I wonder how much film the difference in price pays for (guess I'd have to value my time on the scanner etc)
the colours though are so close. And I am a velvia guy so the 645d would kill my choice on DR.
12-30-2010, 11:38 AM   #3
Senior Member




Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Park City, Utah
Posts: 208
Thomas, which image is the 645n and which is the 645D?

Steven
12-30-2010, 12:01 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2008
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 419
Original Poster
Correct 645N scan. Crop, approximately 2% of full image, see psot below.

Attached Images
 

Last edited by Thomas; 12-31-2010 at 07:23 AM.
12-30-2010, 12:06 PM   #5
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,264
wow, and i assume the scan at the top of the thread is the 645d, then the 645n
if not then I would happily live with the 645n and never think about the d, as a matter of fact this correct scan makes me feel that way to some degree as well (not to mention I could go one further and live with a 67 and an imacon scanner and quite the whack of film for the price of the D.
But from a standpoint of replacing film I'd say the 645D is exemplary in it's colour rendition
and a lot less fussy than Film
thanks
12-30-2010, 01:35 PM   #6
Senior Member




Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Park City, Utah
Posts: 208
wow, I thought the same thing, hmm Thomas was your focus off that much on the 645D?
The image is so soft compared to the 645N version.
Maybe camera movement?
12-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #7
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,068
Hardly anything looks in focus on the 645N. The camera is more capable than presented here.
12-30-2010, 02:29 PM   #8
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,264
part of the focus difference will lie in the the difference of the film/sensor size. a 645 frame is going to have more shallow DOF than the 645D sensor at the same f stop. just as it was with film. it's not the easiest thing to do a clinical lab comparison on as the scan will also affect the film depending on many things. Nikon Scans are excellent, but a full rez imacon scan will be even better for the film.
I really didn't expect the 645 D to outdo the film if it was hi res film (ie a kodak ektar, or a velvia or the ilford panf 50,) but it has so many other benefits that outweigh the limited way film may be able to out perform it it really is moot. otherwise we would be best with 8x10 view cameras (and as much as i appreciate how good huge prints look from one of these I'm pretty sure i don't want to have a pack mule and an assistant just to go out and take a few pictures
For Financial reasons alone I will be sticking to Medium format film even though in the long term it may cost more upfront I can afford the cost. If I had Clients that paid well enough to move to the 645D (or any of the others for that matter) I'd be there in a moment(or at least the month or 2 it takes to get one delivered)

12-30-2010, 02:31 PM   #9
Veteran Member
lbenac's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Burnaby, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,313
The recent posts of wildlife on this forum taken with a 645N would be a better element of comparison. As many pointed out, the 645N shot seems to have a big problem with focus - maybee shallow DOF and focus in front of plan of focus.
If it was taken with AF (why not after all), you should try taking the shot again with manual focus.
If the neg looks in focus then you should check your scanner or carrier it might be several mm out of the focus distance of the scanner lens to say the least. Edit: Noticed that you scanned with 9000 not with flatbed so that would not apply - but it should not look like this either

Cheers,

Luc

Last edited by lbenac; 12-31-2010 at 12:34 AM.
12-30-2010, 07:50 PM   #10
stp
Junior Member




Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 43
I think folks are confused as to which photo was taken with which camera. If I read this right, the top photo was taken with the 645N (film) and the bottom photo was taken with the 645D (digital). Correct?
12-30-2010, 09:38 PM   #11
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 164
bottom picture seems to be grainer so maybe it is the film...unless this was a very slow film
12-30-2010, 11:01 PM   #12
Forum Member
ARCASIA's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baguio, Benguet
Posts: 91
If my film shots looked like the ones shown, I would have fled from film long ago (assuming top digital and bottom film). I agree with Tuco that the 645N is much more capable than that shown here. I would go on to say that the photos shown in this post can be very misleading to many who have not had much experience with film, and provide unearned fodder for the cause of those who champion digital over film without really having much of an understanding of either.

Alan

Last edited by ARCASIA; 12-30-2010 at 11:08 PM.
12-31-2010, 01:17 AM   #13
stp
Junior Member




Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 43
Good grief people, let's get straight on which photo was taken with which camera. The top photo is clearly superior, so folks are assuming it was taken with the 645D. Yet in his post of "Yesterday" (11:01 a.m.), Thomas has identified the top photo as the "Correct 645N scan." Thomas, I wish you would make this more clear for us by stating, "The top photo was taken with the 645x and the bottom photo was taken with the 645y" and fill in the "x" and "y" with the correct letter. We're all over the place on this.

Last edited by stp; 12-31-2010 at 01:20 AM. Reason: more text
12-31-2010, 01:49 AM   #14
Veteran Member
lbenac's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Burnaby, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,313
QuoteOriginally posted by stp Quote
Good grief people, let's get straight on which photo was taken with which camera. The top photo is clearly superior, so folks are assuming it was taken with the 645D. Yet in his post of "Yesterday" (11:01 a.m.), Thomas has identified the top photo as the "Correct 645N scan." Thomas, I wish you would make this more clear for us by stating, "The top photo was taken with the 645x and the bottom photo was taken with the 645y" and fill in the "x" and "y" with the correct letter. We're all over the place on this.

It is indeed confusing.

On my screen there are three photos. The first two and the one in the post you are referring to which on the machine I am using looks different that in the OP i.e. contrast for a start, some form of sharpening possibly
I am reading the post not as "correct 645N scan" but rather "correctED 645N scan".

My understanding of what Thomas eluded to is that the first one is from the 645D which having a smaller sensor size than the 645 is showing a different perspective. The next two "uncorrected" and "corrected" are from the 645N.

Based on the limited information from Thomas and the above, several of us think that the 645N shot does not reflect the ability of a 645 negative and have questioned the focus on the shot.
On B&W film I get a lot sharper results from the A-120/4 manually focussed on a 645 then the second shot. If such is the case then I am glad to use manual focus 99 time out of 100 and I am therefore postponing immediately my nexy optometrist appointment

I am sure that Thomas after the initial statement will provide a follow-up and more information regarding the "testing" methods used so as not let us wildly theorizing and agonizing over a definite answer

Cheers,

Luc
12-31-2010, 03:56 AM   #15
Inactive Account




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 224
But this must be crops, right? I mean, the 645D sensor is quite a bit smaller than the film, actually "only" 33x44 mm compared to 41.5x56 mm.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645d, 645n, acr, camera, comparison, files, focus, image, medium format, ps, scan
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax 645N Ole Pentax Medium Format 2 04-05-2011 04:17 PM
Pentax 645N vs. 67 netrex Pentax Medium Format 41 04-01-2011 02:06 PM
Shutter sound of 645D and 645n II igorphoto Pentax Medium Format 1 11-01-2010 06:31 AM
645N market value coeng Pentax Medium Format 4 05-27-2010 01:43 PM
Need help choosing between 645N and 67!! artistcjconrad Pentax Medium Format 6 07-24-2009 09:30 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top