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01-05-2011, 09:59 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
I'm not sure if Chris Willson is here on pentaxforums.com. Google for "Travel 67" and you'll find his site, blog and Flickr presence. He has a 67 film system, hence his interest in using the adapted 67 lenses on the 645D. He's based in Japan and was one of the first I found posting (in English) about the 645D.
Pentax 645D Chris Willson's Blog
67 lenses on the 645D*body Chris Willson's Blog
Pentax 67 lenses on Pentax 645D Body (Part 2) Chris Willson's Blog

Notice you can buy a remote control to work with the 645D, from the site:

Pentax O-RC1 Remote Control

A simple item that didnít come with the 645D camera was a remote control. The Pentax O-RC1 is a simple device that allows you to fire the shutter without pushing the shutter release button. This is great for self portraits and family photos as it avoids the self-timer dash. More importantly for me, it means I can eliminate any micro wobble that may occur when pressing the shutter release button on a tripod mounted camera. As a bonus the remote control is waterproof, which in rain soaked Okinawa is probably a good idea.

The remote control also works with other 2010 Pentax cameras including the Optio W90.

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Last edited by leping; 01-05-2011 at 10:23 PM.
01-06-2011, 10:00 AM   #17
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Sounds like the equipment needed a good CLA. Besides dust buildup, typically equipment sits in a case with foam padding that over time breaks down, outgassing volatile organic compounds (VOC's) depositing a cloudy coating on inner lens elements and camera parts. Who knows what other things were out of alignment, or other problems.

OT, I don't know if suppliers use foam padding that is ozone resistant to stop or retard foam breakdown yet.


QuoteOriginally posted by Joburger Quote
The 67 lenses seemed cloudy to me and the viewfinder too dull and difficult to achieve critical focus.
I should add here though, in fairness that this camera system previously belonged to a very famous photographer and had shot the Rolling Stones, Clint Eastwood and loads of others with excellent results. Perhaps I should have given it more of a go but in the end I sold the lot in a Pelican case on Ebay and through in my lot with Nikon D3x.

I have two bodies and seven pro lenses and have been pretty happy with the system and have sold lots of work taken with it.
The M.F. bug however keeps bugging me and I'm wondering what the 645D might do for my work, particularly because I sell large prints.
The question is though, do I buy 67 or 645 A lenses and give them a second go on the new 645D body, fork out for some FA lenses (assuming I can get some!)or wait for Pentax to develop some dedicated and no douby expensive lenses for the 645D?
That's were I'm at tonight.
01-06-2011, 11:58 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joburger Quote
By the time I received this kit, I'd already begun using the Nikon D3X. The 67 lenses seemed cloudy to me and the viewfinder too dull and difficult to achieve critical focus.
...
I put a 67II matte in my 6x7. Much brighter. And I use a WLF. Much easier to get critical focus with the magnifying glass plus 100% view. Comparing it to my Hasseblad 500C/M with an Accumat D screen, the view is just as good.
01-06-2011, 02:37 PM   #19
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Interesting this discussion relating to manual focus lenses. Eventhough the Nikon D3X has an auto focusing system that is said to be the best available currently, I still manually focus 70% of the time. My focusing is more critical and decisive as a result as far as I'm concerned.
With that in mind I've just been offered a 300mm f4 Super Takumar for AUS$520.00 which is in A1 condition.
I'm starting to move into line with phonoline here and go the 67 route with a 67 to 645 apaptor. If anyone has a link for the purchase of this adaptor, I'd be grateful.
What do you guys think of the 300mm f4, Super Takumar on a 645D?

Royce also re: your other comments, so long as I have a working light meter and that huge sensor, I'm not overly concerned about all the other fancy features. I have loads of them on the D3X and I hardly use any of them and some of them, I don't even know what they do!

Also the guy with the 300mm lens also has a SMC Takumar 135mm f4 macro for AUS$177 and a SMC Takumar 105mm f2.4 for AUS $80. All in excellent order.
I see that FA lenses have become something of a rarity in the secondary market place of late, and those that are available, sell for a lot more than they did this time last year. I haven't been able to find a 300mm FA so that's why I'm leaning towards starting the 645 system with 67 lenses and maybe waiting for other opportunities for FA or new Pentax releases in the future.
Any thoughts?

01-06-2011, 05:38 PM   #20
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KEH will sell you an EX 300/4 for around $250 or EX+ at $360 and it will be the later Pentax 67 version. Postage will probably be $50 - $60 if you choose the USPS option. Keep an eye out there for the 67->645 converter too. I grabbed one late last year for $139 which is cheaper than most I have seen on Ebay.

If you were just looking to get into MF cheaply with a 67 and a few lenses then by all means buy the Super Takumar or SMC Takumar versions since they are dirt cheap now. They are also 30 - 40 years old. However if you are buying them specifically to use on the 645D then you really should look at the latest versions of the lenses (labelled SMC Pentax 67) in the best condition you can find. They will probably still be cheaper than FA645 lenses, assuming you could find them, but more than the ones you have been looking at.

If the 300 is going to be the basis of your lens kit then go for the M*300/4, not the regular 300/4. If macro is important try and find the 100/4 with the 1:1 converter, not the older 135/4 which will only go to 1:2. The later 55/4 is supposed to be the sharpest of the 67 lenses and would be worth comparing to the 645 versions.

Past 300mm the lenses get harder to find, although I did notice a 500/5.6 in the window of one of the Melbourne camera shops for around $1000. The 400/4, 600/4 and 800/4 are all old and simple designs that would really struggle on a 645D, so you would need to go to the rarer and expensive M* versions (M*400/4 and M*800/6.7)
01-06-2011, 06:20 PM   #21
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Would the SMC 6x7 300mm and SMC 67 300mm generation lenes suffer from the same, much discussed, cantilever problem on a 645D + adapter as it did with the 6x7 body?

My friend had one and could not at any camera shutter speed get a good shot. I mounted it on my video camera's rail system to support the front of the lens and body before it worked. Bad copy? I don't know. The newer M* 300mm added a tripod mount to address that problem which will then let you use a monopod on the camera body for added support.
01-06-2011, 06:55 PM   #22
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Chris, I think our attitudes likely are similar. The more you describe your style, the more I think you would get on well with the 645D. Sorry, not trying to sell you on this system.

I also don't want to underplay the potential challenge of manual focus and need for good glass on this camera, not that you sound like you need the caveats. The finder is big & bright but not as well suited for manual focus as the last generation of film bodies. And the 645D has less depth of field than a 35mm format body, of course combined with high resolution. So the acuity of the system punishes focus errors or lens issues. But if you are well suited to the manual style of shooting and willing to work with it, I don't see that you can't make it work. (I think Pentax obviously is depending on people being willing & able to do that, because there isn't a flood of lens options otherwise.)

I don't have experience with the old school Takumar lenses but at those prices there's likely no financial downside to try them out. I'd think the Takumar 105mm f/2.4 could be useful, as an example, if you desire it for shooting more wide open. But Paul's comments have the ring of experience -- don't overly judge the performance of the entire system by them if those lenses don't hold up. Great glass is very rewarding on this system, and vice versa. (See the recent thread on Luminous Landscape where a gentleman posts about his issues with the new 55mm.)

I got my 67-to-645 adapter from my local Pentax dealer here in Calgary, they simply ordered it up like normal from Pentax. I don't know if this means the adapter is still in production, or that there's simply a small supply floating around as "new in box" old stock. My dealer seems to be able to get hold of a fair amount of 645 stuff, but then they are one of the key pro dealers in Canada.

KEH also has been mentioned, that's an important source, at least for 67 kit now that the 645 inventory has been largely plundered. I've ordered from them for years, and have recently made a few new acquisitions from them for the 645D...
01-06-2011, 08:48 PM   #23
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Paul thanks for your advice re: the purchase of a 300/f4, that's is something worth knowing.
Royce, I tried out a 645D again today with a beautiful 645 A 120mm f4 macro. I only had the playback function enlargement to go by but it looked pretty sharp wide open from what I could see, so I snapped it up. It looks brand new and had both caps and a hood. I thought considering the equivalent 35mm focal lengh, it may come in handy for portraiture. Now the hunt is on for a 645 300mm f4, or the 67 as per Paul's suggestion. I'll check out KEH but there was no Pentax MF lenses last time I checked.
After I have these lenses in hand, my local dealer is giving me a 645D for the weekend, but I think we all know how this story is going to end.
Thanks again for all the advice, I really appreciate it.

01-06-2011, 08:58 PM   #24
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Ah, excellent. My "A" 120mm f/4 just arrived yesterday, and today I took it to the office for a couple of headshots we needed for an internal team web site. I love the focus action of it and the focal length should be great for portraiture. I'll use it as well for macro work. Manual focus for the headshots was no trouble at all.

Check KEH frequently. They probably are still getting some volume of kit through their doors, but with the level of interest the 645 items won't sit in the catalog for more than an hour or two. I saw the "A" 120mm appear there early one morning last week, along with a few others. I bought the 120mm instantly, and the others were all gone within a short while longer...

Smart dealer! Yes, I think I see where you're heading. Good luck with it!
01-06-2011, 09:07 PM   #25
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Cheers Royce.
I just had a quick look and the the best 300 f4 seemed to be this one: Pentax 6x7 300 F4 SMC (82) / LATE WITH CAPS MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS - KEH.com

Paul, I'm a bit confused with the M* notation you mentioned, I assume since this listing doesn't fall into the catagory since the M* isn't mentioned. Just out of interest, what's the main difference?
How do you think the above lens (LN) version would sit on a 645D?

Thanks guys.
01-06-2011, 09:24 PM   #26
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Hi Chris
I have just returned from Antarctica where I shot a 645D with a 300 FA primarily. A lot of the shots were taken on moving zodiacs and rocking boats hand held.
I shot at high shutter speeds to compensate for the motion.
Overall I was very impressed with the results with sharp images.
I would say that the 300 was one of my better performing lenses.
Joseph
01-06-2011, 10:29 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joburger Quote
Cheers Royce.
I just had a quick look and the the best 300 f4 seemed to be this one: Pentax 6x7 300 F4 SMC (82) / LATE WITH CAPS MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS - KEH.com

Paul, I'm a bit confused with the M* notation you mentioned, I assume since this listing doesn't fall into the catagory since the M* isn't mentioned. Just out of interest, what's the main difference?
How do you think the above lens (LN) version would sit on a 645D?

Thanks guys.
This forum maintains a complete Pentax lens data and review base under the "LENSES" tab. The "M*" 300mm is more often referred as the Pentax 67 "300mm/f4 ED IF", which is of a new optical design, and one of the sharpest lens in the 67 line up besides the new 55mm/f4 -- if the user knows how to deal with the shutter shake thing. There is no CA, and it is razor sharp widely open. Even today a good used copy still often go for over $1000, an highly sought-after item.

SMC Pentax-M* 67 300mm F4 ED [IF] Lens Reviews - Pentax Lens Reviews & Pentax Lens Database

It is also my most used and cherished lens, as two sample works are shown below (the site engine resizes and re-compresses heavily the uploaded JPEGs so the original sharpness are not maintained). Currently it is on the way to be possibly part of Lloyd's 645D testing through the adapter. For an interesting comparison, is there any current FA 300mm ED IF owner willing to lend the 645 AF version to him for a direct face-up?
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Last edited by leping; 01-06-2011 at 10:57 PM.
01-06-2011, 11:40 PM   #28
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I think Leping has covered the case for the M* 300/4 ED IF quite convincingly.

Under normal circumstances you would only look at using 6x7 lenses on the 645D if you already owned them. There hasn't been much testing to say how the existing 645 lenses perform on the 645D, let alone the 6x7 lenses which cover a 40 year span. We can't just assume that because a lens performs well on the 6x7 it will be fine on the 645D so the best that we can do is say, well these are the best of the best, they should be OK.

The other problem is sample variation inherent in buying second hand lenses. You could test one of my 6x7 lenses and find that it works well enough for you and then go out and buy one of your own and find that copy to be less than stellar. Recommending the newer designs means younger lenses that hopefully still perform to their original capabilities.

However as someone noted if the lens is cheap enough you might as well just buy it and find out and resell at a slight loss if it doesn't work out. Most of the 67 lenses at KEH were under $400 which isn't much compared to the $2000 for the new 55/2.8

Hopefully in the months to come as more testing is done we will have a better picture of what works and what is found wanting.
01-07-2011, 12:13 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul Ewins Quote
... We can't just assume that because a lens performs well on the 6x7 it will be fine on the 645D so the best that we can do is say, well these are the best of the best, they should be OK.

The other problem is sample variation inherent in buying second hand lenses. You could test one of my 6x7 lenses and find that it works well enough for you and then go out and buy one of your own and find that copy to be less than stellar. ...
A friend and forum member just sent me a "wow" message as he found the 55mm/f4 (latest) is incredible on the 645D, both focused far and close as a macro lens, for which he could not believe the quality. It totally "put away" the new 55/2.8.

So, my prediction is the great 67 lens will still do great on the 645D, and since the adapter retains autodiaphram and open-aperture metering capability, you can use them just taking they are true 645 MF lenses (and actually on the adapter they truly are).

Sample variation is a far more complicated issue. Even you buy new lenses now a days, low Q/A standard can make it almost certain you won'd get a perfect one. You can read MF back users all over complaining for bad copies they paid $5000+ for, and it often take them as many as 6-8 tries to get one that is usable. In the other hand, the old lenses were made over the time in which Q/A was tighter, while at the same time balanced by the likelihood of integrated amount of abuse over the long lifespan. The only way out is test, compare, and pick.

Last edited by leping; 01-07-2011 at 12:20 AM.
01-07-2011, 04:04 AM   #30
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Thanks guys. Leping, the sharpness and DOF quality in those shots would make me buy a M* immediately, if only there was one available. I'm thinking I might try to locate a 645 and wait and see if and when a M* becomes available. If I can't secure the 645 second hand I'll take a punt on a well looked after 67 and see what happens. As you guys have pointed out it's not a huge amount of money, compared to the 645D body, to move on if it doesn't work out.
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