645 lens madness

leping · 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM

Making a wide angle lens work retro-focus corner to corner is no small task, and covering 33x44 is quite a different feast than covering 42x56. See these (almost, at least) failed Mamiya/Phase One and Hasselblad examples. Do I need to even mention Canon, after how many years?

Even the breakthrough, the Nikon 14-24, is not perfect: field curvature, focus shift, and deminished performance closed down (i.e., digLloyd found the zoom is optimized to off-center rays). Someone someday makes something as good as the Mamiya 7 43mm on film? I mean even the 43mm might not work on digital sensors because of the high incendent angle.

Last edited by leping; 01-05-2011 at 05:53 PM.

Shuttershane · 01-05-2011, 05:51 PM

You know I don't really notice horrible corner sharpness on my 55mm f2.8 but I am comparing to stuff I have done with my Canon's. I have 2 wide canon lenses. The 24-105mm which only really shines at f8-11 and even then is not very sharp and the 16-35 f2.8 II which is horrible at the corners. I am selling the 16-35 because I rarely use it, my copy seems to have a blur filter at every corner all the way up to 30mm. 35mm it looks good from corner to corner.

kuau · 01-05-2011, 08:16 PM

I was told today by pentax usa that if you purchase a new FA lens in Japan it will be covered under pentad warranty for 1 year, as long as you have the receipt for the lens.
Who is the biggest dealer in Japan that may have stock on some FA lenses.

Steven

Tim Wilson · 01-06-2011, 07:47 AM

You know, Hoya was smart enough after acquiring Pentax to resurrect the 645D project and make it into a great camera that presumably they can make money producing. Now they have a hit on their hands that they must recognized can be a real game changer for their brand. They've gotta know this lens thing is their biggest vulnerability. I'll bet there's a lot of scrambling going on somewhere related to getting a lens series, either new designs or new versions of old designs, into the market ASAP.

Tim Wilson
Chicago

kuau · 01-06-2011, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Tim Wilson

You know, Hoya was smart enough after acquiring Pentax to resurrect the 645D project and make it into a great camera that presumably they can make money producing. Now they have a hit on their hands that they must recognized can be a real game changer for their brand. They've gotta know this lens thing is their biggest vulnerability. I'll bet there's a lot of scrambling going on somewhere related to getting a lens series, either new designs or new versions of old designs, into the market ASAP.

Tim Wilson
Chicago

Tim I sure hope your right.
The 645d handles beautiful and what a shame it would be that they can't get there act together on the lenses
I had my 645 out yesterday and the outdoor temp was 12 degrees and it performed perfect.

Steven

**Pål Jensen** · 01-06-2011, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by kuau

Tim I sure hope your right.
The 645d handles beautiful and what a shame it would be that they can't get there act together on the lenses
I had my 645 out yesterday and the outdoor temp was 12 degrees and it performed perfect.

Steven

Is there anything wrong with the lenses?

Shuttershane · 01-06-2011, 01:02 PM

If you get good copies of the lenses then nothing is wrong with them. Think about it, some of these lenses are over 10 years old so your bound to get a bad egg here and there.

MetaD · 01-06-2011, 01:06 PM

A couple high-priced lenses doesn't make a trend. Here's what I think happened:

A loaded photographer buys a P645D and lens, then realizes he needs some more lens. This makes him unhappy so he gets loaded on left-over New Years Eve champagne and starts surfing ebay. He sees a buy-it-now tele lens for his expensive camera that is cheaper than the normal-prime he just bought. Click-pow-bang.

kuau · 01-06-2011, 01:06 PM

Pål,
That as a loaded question.
As I mentioned in other posts as of this moment I have the 120mm A, and the 75mm FA,
Thew 120mm A worked very well, corners sharp, etc.
On the other hand the 75mm FA, well at least the one I have did not live up to it's reputation.
I am expecting today in the mail a 45mm fa, which I don't have hi hope for and a 200mm FA which I have high hopes for.

Remember I am a landscape guy, Tripod always, ISO 100, F11-F16, MLU., not doing brain surgery here, also a lot of time focusing at or near infinity or hyper focal focus, but from what I understand is that hyper focal focus doe snot work the same way as it did on film camera. I cant confirm this though.

I am coming from a Hassselblad H3D-39, the original one, terrible lcd on the back, yet I all I need was the histogram, which worked flawlessly. I paid used for the camera a year ago 6500.00 for the body then purchased 4 used HCD lens, 28,50, 80, and 150mm lens, they all worked great.

Why did I sell my Hassy system? I moved to the snow, vert cold, and there is know way the H3D could have survived the these kind of temps and no weather sealing.

So in the mean time I took the money from the sale of my Hassy system and purchased a M9, and 4 used lens, the 28, 35, 50, and 75mm lens, not the expensive Lux's pr even cron's though my 50 is a cron. 18mp the camera is amazing quality, pictures are crystal clear corner to corner.

I just want at least comparable results from my 645D so I can make bigger prints but at of yet not only my 120mm Macro A can seem to do the job.

Steven

kuau · 01-06-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Shuttershane

If you get good copies of the lenses then nothing is wrong with them. Think about it, some of these lenses are over 10 years old so your bound to get a bad egg here and there.

Shuttershane,
Thats the whole problem right now, not sure what you are getting, and even the guy at pentad who I spoke with on the phone yesterday confirmed that just because it's a new "FA" lens that may be still floting around out there no guarantee that the will perform any better or worse than an older one.

Does not give me great confidence,
Come Pentax help us out here. Don't leave us in the dark with theses lenses.

Steven

Shuttershane · 01-06-2011, 01:51 PM

Maybe I am just lucky or not paying a great deal attention to my images (zooming in and looking everywhere) but so far I have been happy. My 75mm f2.8 is really the only lens I had issues with. Mine needed a -10 adjustment, once that was done it got much better.

However I will say every one of my lenses has needed an adjustment but I really don't think that is uncommon. 9 of my 10 canon lenses have adjustments made with the one exception being my 100mm f2.8 IS Macro.

Corner softness on one side is a different story. My guess is that some of these old lenses have been knocked around for many years causing this problem. I talked with Pentax today and they said Camera Repair Japan | Home maybe able to fix these issues. I believe they are the only people here in the US that repair them.

If the repair costs under $100-200 I would say its worth it if you get lenses for a cheap price.

I really hope Pentax takes the old designs and updates them or start making the old lenses again.

kuau · 01-06-2011, 02:35 PM

Shuttershane
Would you recommend theses guys Camera Repair Japan | Home over shipping my lens / lenses to Pentax USA?

Shuttershane · 01-06-2011, 02:49 PM

I have never used them. Pentax support just mentioned them as being a repair facility here in the US. If I were you I would give them a call. I may call them tomorrow about my 75

Tim Wilson · 01-06-2011, 03:38 PM

I have 5 FA lenses accumulated since the beginning of December. The 2 that have problems are the 2 I bought "new".

One of those was the new D FA 55, ordered with the camera, which has that same softness-away-from-center that others have seen, likely more than an isolated defect, possibly a design flaw.

The other was a 45-85mm from Samys sold as "new in box" on Ebay. From the literature packed in the box, I'd guess it had been sitting around a while. Shiny and unused as it was, though, there was still misalignment. (Maybe from sitting on one side in the box all those years.) The good news: Since it was sold to me as new, it's under warranty, right? So I sent it in to Pentax. If they say, "umm... this ain't new", then Samys misrepresented, and owes me a refund. Right?

The other 3: All used, all at decent prices, all testing out pretty good so far. Very happy about those.

Tim Wilson
Chicago

kuau · 01-08-2011, 02:58 PM

I would love to get my hands on a a good copy of the 45-85mm zoom. From all my readingions so far this is the best 45mm out there if you are luck enough to get a good copy.
My 45mm FA I shoot with today has the same problems that the 55 has, great in the center but not so great in the corners at any aperture.
45mm for me on the 645D is a wide as I want to go... I am not sure what to do at this point.
Though just for giggles, I will send in my 45FA to pentax USA and see what they say.
I called Camera Repair Japan and the problem is they don't have a 645D to test on, so I have no idea how they can test a lens.

Any suggestions,?

btw, I also used my 75 FA today worked very well, and my 120mm A, and my new 200mm FA, all seem to be working good.

If anyone is interested in looking at some dng's send me an email and I can put them on my ftp server.

01-06-2011, 01:06 PM	#38
MetaD Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 105	A couple high-priced lenses doesn't make a trend. Here's what I think happened: A loaded photographer buys a P645D and lens, then realizes he needs some more lens. This makes him unhappy so he gets loaded on left-over New Years Eve champagne and starts surfing ebay. He sees a buy-it-now tele lens for his expensive camera that is cheaper than the normal-prime he just bought. Click-pow-bang. Last edited by MetaD; 01-07-2011 at 04:33 PM.

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01-05-2011, 05:37 PM	#31
leping Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 82	Making a wide angle lens work retro-focus corner to corner is no small task, and covering 33x44 is quite a different feast than covering 42x56. See these (almost, at least) failed Mamiya/Phase One and Hasselblad examples. Do I need to even mention Canon, after how many years? Even the breakthrough, the Nikon 14-24, is not perfect: field curvature, focus shift, and deminished performance closed down (i.e., digLloyd found the zoom is optimized to off-center rays). Someone someday makes something as good as the Mamiya 7 43mm on film? I mean even the 43mm might not work on digital sensors because of the high incendent angle. Last edited by leping; 01-05-2011 at 05:53 PM.

01-05-2011, 05:51 PM	#32
Shuttershane Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 164	You know I don't really notice horrible corner sharpness on my 55mm f2.8 but I am comparing to stuff I have done with my Canon's. I have 2 wide canon lenses. The 24-105mm which only really shines at f8-11 and even then is not very sharp and the 16-35 f2.8 II which is horrible at the corners. I am selling the 16-35 because I rarely use it, my copy seems to have a blur filter at every corner all the way up to 30mm. 35mm it looks good from corner to corner.

01-05-2011, 08:16 PM	#33
kuau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 208	I was told today by pentax usa that if you purchase a new FA lens in Japan it will be covered under pentad warranty for 1 year, as long as you have the receipt for the lens. Who is the biggest dealer in Japan that may have stock on some FA lenses. Steven

01-06-2011, 07:47 AM	#34
Tim Wilson Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 54	You know, Hoya was smart enough after acquiring Pentax to resurrect the 645D project and make it into a great camera that presumably they can make money producing. Now they have a hit on their hands that they must recognized can be a real game changer for their brand. They've gotta know this lens thing is their biggest vulnerability. I'll bet there's a lot of scrambling going on somewhere related to getting a lens series, either new designs or new versions of old designs, into the market ASAP. Tim Wilson Chicago

01-06-2011, 08:01 AM	#35
kuau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 208	Originally posted by Tim Wilson You know, Hoya was smart enough after acquiring Pentax to resurrect the 645D project and make it into a great camera that presumably they can make money producing. Now they have a hit on their hands that they must recognized can be a real game changer for their brand. They've gotta know this lens thing is their biggest vulnerability. I'll bet there's a lot of scrambling going on somewhere related to getting a lens series, either new designs or new versions of old designs, into the market ASAP. Tim Wilson Chicago Tim I sure hope your right. The 645d handles beautiful and what a shame it would be that they can't get there act together on the lenses I had my 645 out yesterday and the outdoor temp was 12 degrees and it performed perfect. Steven

01-06-2011, 12:43 PM	#36
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by kuau Tim I sure hope your right. The 645d handles beautiful and what a shame it would be that they can't get there act together on the lenses I had my 645 out yesterday and the outdoor temp was 12 degrees and it performed perfect. Steven Is there anything wrong with the lenses?

01-06-2011, 01:02 PM	#37
Shuttershane Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 164	If you get good copies of the lenses then nothing is wrong with them. Think about it, some of these lenses are over 10 years old so your bound to get a bad egg here and there.

01-06-2011, 01:06 PM	#39
kuau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 208	Pål, That as a loaded question. As I mentioned in other posts as of this moment I have the 120mm A, and the 75mm FA, Thew 120mm A worked very well, corners sharp, etc. On the other hand the 75mm FA, well at least the one I have did not live up to it's reputation. I am expecting today in the mail a 45mm fa, which I don't have hi hope for and a 200mm FA which I have high hopes for. Remember I am a landscape guy, Tripod always, ISO 100, F11-F16, MLU., not doing brain surgery here, also a lot of time focusing at or near infinity or hyper focal focus, but from what I understand is that hyper focal focus doe snot work the same way as it did on film camera. I cant confirm this though. I am coming from a Hassselblad H3D-39, the original one, terrible lcd on the back, yet I all I need was the histogram, which worked flawlessly. I paid used for the camera a year ago 6500.00 for the body then purchased 4 used HCD lens, 28,50, 80, and 150mm lens, they all worked great. Why did I sell my Hassy system? I moved to the snow, vert cold, and there is know way the H3D could have survived the these kind of temps and no weather sealing. So in the mean time I took the money from the sale of my Hassy system and purchased a M9, and 4 used lens, the 28, 35, 50, and 75mm lens, not the expensive Lux's pr even cron's though my 50 is a cron. 18mp the camera is amazing quality, pictures are crystal clear corner to corner. I just want at least comparable results from my 645D so I can make bigger prints but at of yet not only my 120mm Macro A can seem to do the job. Steven

01-06-2011, 01:10 PM	#40
kuau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 208	Originally posted by Shuttershane If you get good copies of the lenses then nothing is wrong with them. Think about it, some of these lenses are over 10 years old so your bound to get a bad egg here and there. Shuttershane, Thats the whole problem right now, not sure what you are getting, and even the guy at pentad who I spoke with on the phone yesterday confirmed that just because it's a new "FA" lens that may be still floting around out there no guarantee that the will perform any better or worse than an older one. Does not give me great confidence, Come Pentax help us out here. Don't leave us in the dark with theses lenses. Steven

01-06-2011, 01:51 PM	#41
Shuttershane Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 164	Maybe I am just lucky or not paying a great deal attention to my images (zooming in and looking everywhere) but so far I have been happy. My 75mm f2.8 is really the only lens I had issues with. Mine needed a -10 adjustment, once that was done it got much better. However I will say every one of my lenses has needed an adjustment but I really don't think that is uncommon. 9 of my 10 canon lenses have adjustments made with the one exception being my 100mm f2.8 IS Macro. Corner softness on one side is a different story. My guess is that some of these old lenses have been knocked around for many years causing this problem. I talked with Pentax today and they said Camera Repair Japan \| Home maybe able to fix these issues. I believe they are the only people here in the US that repair them. If the repair costs under $100-200 I would say its worth it if you get lenses for a cheap price. I really hope Pentax takes the old designs and updates them or start making the old lenses again.

01-06-2011, 02:35 PM	#42
kuau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 208	Shuttershane Would you recommend theses guys Camera Repair Japan \| Home over shipping my lens / lenses to Pentax USA?

01-06-2011, 02:49 PM	#43
Shuttershane Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 164	I have never used them. Pentax support just mentioned them as being a repair facility here in the US. If I were you I would give them a call. I may call them tomorrow about my 75

01-06-2011, 03:38 PM	#44
Tim Wilson Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 54	I have 5 FA lenses accumulated since the beginning of December. The 2 that have problems are the 2 I bought "new". One of those was the new D FA 55, ordered with the camera, which has that same softness-away-from-center that others have seen, likely more than an isolated defect, possibly a design flaw. The other was a 45-85mm from Samys sold as "new in box" on Ebay. From the literature packed in the box, I'd guess it had been sitting around a while. Shiny and unused as it was, though, there was still misalignment. (Maybe from sitting on one side in the box all those years.) The good news: Since it was sold to me as new, it's under warranty, right? So I sent it in to Pentax. If they say, "umm... this ain't new", then Samys misrepresented, and owes me a refund. Right? The other 3: All used, all at decent prices, all testing out pretty good so far. Very happy about those. Tim Wilson Chicago

01-08-2011, 02:58 PM	#45
kuau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 208	I would love to get my hands on a a good copy of the 45-85mm zoom. From all my readingions so far this is the best 45mm out there if you are luck enough to get a good copy. My 45mm FA I shoot with today has the same problems that the 55 has, great in the center but not so great in the corners at any aperture. 45mm for me on the 645D is a wide as I want to go... I am not sure what to do at this point. Though just for giggles, I will send in my 45FA to pentax USA and see what they say. I called Camera Repair Japan and the problem is they don't have a 645D to test on, so I have no idea how they can test a lens. Any suggestions,? btw, I also used my 75 FA today worked very well, and my 120mm A, and my new 200mm FA, all seem to be working good. If anyone is interested in looking at some dng's send me an email and I can put them on my ftp server.