645 lens madness

Simon S · 01-05-2011, 04:46 AM

I recently decided to add a autofocus medium format camera to my P67II (and Bald), as my young son is now on the move, and not yet at the age where he will stand still. Got myself a P645n and wanted to add a 150mm FA. Been watching the market for a few months and am kicking myself for not acting quick. When I first was deciding whether to go the 645n, two FA 150s sold for between $430 and $500. Then not long after a new one when for a bit over $800. It has been quiet until the recent sales discussed above. I have been blown away by how fast the prices have risen.

Pentax has got to get its act together and provide lenses for the 645d. I can't see it as viable camera for professionals with no lenses available.

Two things I have been comtemplating: first, will these high prices see sellers enter the market? And, when a viable new lens range is available, will upgraders sell the FA lenses and push the price back down, seeing the premium for scarcity will disappear.

Shuttershane · 01-05-2011, 07:08 AM

I wonder if they can just take the old FA designs and modernize them (new coating and faster autofocus). If they could do that and push the lenses out quickly I think they would do really well.

Tim Wilson · 01-05-2011, 07:13 AM

Somewhere I got the idea that the FA lenses were still being manufactured for certain markets (Japan, specifically), just not being imported to North America and elsewhere. Does anyone know if that's true or not?

Tim Wilson
Chicago

eddie1960 · 01-05-2011, 07:24 AM

Pentax Canada still lists all the film lenses though finding a dealer with them would e another issue. They also list all the 67 lenses

Pentax Canada - Medium Format Lenses

eddie1960 · 01-05-2011, 07:27 AM

to add to that Henrys Cameras has 3 645 lenses on their web site as new

645 LENS - Henry's best camera store in Canada

Thomas · 01-05-2011, 07:47 AM

Tim:

Hoya announced they would continue the 645 lens line at the same time they announced the end of production of the 645 and 67. Where and if they are still being assembled, I don't know. I spoke to one of the Pentax USA 645D program officers a few weeks ago and he said there is no plan to import 645 lenses into the US at this time; in fact, they had to beg Hoya to receive any 645D bodies. This camera was a logical purchase for me since I have a boatload of 645 and 67 lenses, but my major concern is the long term prospects for the system. Sometimes I suspect Hoya released the camera to satisfy all the frustrated Japanese 645 users and to recoup development costs. Hoya is not the old Pentax, by that I mean I don't believe they have any particular devotion to producing cameras; if this camera doesn't produce a profit and considerable demand, it might just go away (as with any product, but I have a personal interest in this one.). The old Pentax likely would have produced the camera, even at a loss, for its prestige value.
Anyway, it’s a darn fine camera right now and in five years, cell phone cameras will be all we need.

**Buffy** · 01-05-2011, 08:24 AM

I'm glad I made my 645 purchases when I did. At the time, the 645D was shelved but I figured if it did ever come out--and I was betting it would--prices would spike. I have 7 FA primes and most of them cost me less than $350 apiece; only the FA* 300 ($550) and FA 35mm ($950) cost more. It's just crazy now.

**Pål Jensen** · 01-05-2011, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Tim Wilson

Somewhere I got the idea that the FA lenses were still being manufactured for certain markets (Japan, specifically), just not being imported to North America and elsewhere. Does anyone know if that's true or not?

I have heard that the FA645 75/2.8 is now assembled in Vietnam. This could be the case for other FA645 lenses as well.
The FA645 150-300/5.6 has always been assembled in Vietnam and it is probably still in production...

tuco · 01-05-2011, 09:01 AM

I purchased a hard to find 67 lens through Japan Exposures once. The services was excellent and I'd do it again. It doesn't hurt to inquire. And at this point is sounds like the goal is to get a 645 lens your looking for rather than getting it at the best price possible.

leping · 01-05-2011, 09:13 AM

Pentax 645 was the widest used MF system because the price performance ratio. Not all the old lens holders can afford (and right now be able to buy) a 645D, so I believe the price will come down once the initial fever is over and supplies out number the demands.

Just be rational and don't help to feed the current maverick wave.

gurtch · 01-05-2011, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by leping

Pentax 645 was the widest used MF system because the price performance ratio. Not all the old lens holders can afford (and right now be able to buy) a 645D, so I believe the price will come down once the initial fever is over and supplies out number the demands.

Just be rational and don't help to feed the current maverick wave.

Somewhere I read that the new 25mm lens being developed, WILL NOT COVER the old 645 size image size; rather it will cover 33mmx44mm only. If is the case, it will limit the potential market to 645D owners only. I would expect any future lenses will follow suit. I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense.
Dave

**Pål Jensen** · 01-05-2011, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by gurtch

Somewhere I read that the new 25mm lens being developed, WILL NOT COVER the old 645 size image size; rather it will cover 33mmx44mm only. If is the case, it will limit the potential market to 645D owners only. I would expect any future lenses will follow suit. I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense.
Dave

I've read that it will cover the whole 645 frame. I think Pentax is planning an FF (645) camera....

eddie1960 · 01-05-2011, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I've read that it will cover the whole 645 frame. I think Pentax is planning an FF (645) camera....

They should be looking ahead because I don't imagine the sensor technology is more than a couple of years out, and to stay competitive they will need to use FF at that point. This market is less price sensitive and more driven by long term support and compatability. So far they aren't really there yet (they can't even meet demand for the limited product they've released) they will need to devote more time money and energy into this market if they really want to be there IMHO. Not sure Hoya will though as the return on investment may not be as measurable as straight sales #s. Halo is tough to quantify

Smolk · 01-05-2011, 05:23 PM

yeah, let's have another FF - cropped frame discussion....

Originally posted by Medic875

I thought I was going crazy with all the super high prices on Ebay. Glad I not... As a side question...Are teh new 645D lenses backward compatible?

The lens database has the answer for you:

Quote:

The lens covers the full 645 format and can thus be used on 645 film cameras as well as on 645 digital cameras. The lens has a built-in motor (SDM) for the autofocus function. On a 645 film camera the lens can be used in manual focus mode only, and only in P and Tv exposure modes due to the lack of an aperture ring.

eddie1960 · 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Smolk

yeah, let's have another FF - cropped frame discussion....
:

Isn't that where every thread about cameras is supposed to lead
then some people can threaten to abandon the brand if FF isn't on the horizon
The K5 comes out and is arguably the best apsc ever, and better than many FF in a lot of areas and next thing you know it's whens the FF k6 coming out lol
I do see the replacement model 645d possibly being full frame though without a lot of other changes as the sensors will be developed and come down in price

01-05-2011, 07:47 AM	#21
Thomas Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 434 Original Poster	Tim: Hoya announced they would continue the 645 lens line at the same time they announced the end of production of the 645 and 67. Where and if they are still being assembled, I don't know. I spoke to one of the Pentax USA 645D program officers a few weeks ago and he said there is no plan to import 645 lenses into the US at this time; in fact, they had to beg Hoya to receive any 645D bodies. This camera was a logical purchase for me since I have a boatload of 645 and 67 lenses, but my major concern is the long term prospects for the system. Sometimes I suspect Hoya released the camera to satisfy all the frustrated Japanese 645 users and to recoup development costs. Hoya is not the old Pentax, by that I mean I don't believe they have any particular devotion to producing cameras; if this camera doesn't produce a profit and considerable demand, it might just go away (as with any product, but I have a personal interest in this one.). The old Pentax likely would have produced the camera, even at a loss, for its prestige value. Anyway, it’s a darn fine camera right now and in five years, cell phone cameras will be all we need. Last edited by Thomas; 01-05-2011 at 08:29 AM.

01-05-2011, 08:24 AM	#22
Buffy Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Greater Boston area, Massachusetts Posts: 389	Re: 645 lens madness I'm glad I made my 645 purchases when I did. At the time, the 645D was shelved but I figured if it did ever come out--and I was betting it would--prices would spike. I have 7 FA primes and most of them cost me less than $350 apiece; only the FA* 300 ($550) and FA 35mm ($950) cost more. It's just crazy now.

01-05-2011, 09:01 AM	#24
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,019	I purchased a hard to find 67 lens through Japan Exposures once. The services was excellent and I'd do it again. It doesn't hurt to inquire. And at this point is sounds like the goal is to get a 645 lens your looking for rather than getting it at the best price possible. Last edited by tuco; 01-05-2011 at 09:37 AM.

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01-05-2011, 04:46 AM	#16
Simon S New Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 11	I recently decided to add a autofocus medium format camera to my P67II (and Bald), as my young son is now on the move, and not yet at the age where he will stand still. Got myself a P645n and wanted to add a 150mm FA. Been watching the market for a few months and am kicking myself for not acting quick. When I first was deciding whether to go the 645n, two FA 150s sold for between $430 and $500. Then not long after a new one when for a bit over $800. It has been quiet until the recent sales discussed above. I have been blown away by how fast the prices have risen. Pentax has got to get its act together and provide lenses for the 645d. I can't see it as viable camera for professionals with no lenses available. Two things I have been comtemplating: first, will these high prices see sellers enter the market? And, when a viable new lens range is available, will upgraders sell the FA lenses and push the price back down, seeing the premium for scarcity will disappear.

01-05-2011, 07:08 AM	#17
Shuttershane Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 164	I wonder if they can just take the old FA designs and modernize them (new coating and faster autofocus). If they could do that and push the lenses out quickly I think they would do really well.

01-05-2011, 07:13 AM	#18
Tim Wilson Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 54	Somewhere I got the idea that the FA lenses were still being manufactured for certain markets (Japan, specifically), just not being imported to North America and elsewhere. Does anyone know if that's true or not? Tim Wilson Chicago

01-05-2011, 07:24 AM	#19
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Pentax Canada still lists all the film lenses though finding a dealer with them would e another issue. They also list all the 67 lenses Pentax Canada - Medium Format Lenses

01-05-2011, 07:27 AM	#20
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	to add to that Henrys Cameras has 3 645 lenses on their web site as new 645 LENS - Henry's best camera store in Canada

01-05-2011, 08:56 AM	#23
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Tim Wilson Somewhere I got the idea that the FA lenses were still being manufactured for certain markets (Japan, specifically), just not being imported to North America and elsewhere. Does anyone know if that's true or not? I have heard that the FA645 75/2.8 is now assembled in Vietnam. This could be the case for other FA645 lenses as well. The FA645 150-300/5.6 has always been assembled in Vietnam and it is probably still in production...

01-05-2011, 09:13 AM	#25
leping Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 82	Pentax 645 was the widest used MF system because the price performance ratio. Not all the old lens holders can afford (and right now be able to buy) a 645D, so I believe the price will come down once the initial fever is over and supplies out number the demands. Just be rational and don't help to feed the current maverick wave.

01-05-2011, 10:44 AM	#26
gurtch Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Beach Haven, NJ Posts: 176	Originally posted by leping Pentax 645 was the widest used MF system because the price performance ratio. Not all the old lens holders can afford (and right now be able to buy) a 645D, so I believe the price will come down once the initial fever is over and supplies out number the demands. Just be rational and don't help to feed the current maverick wave. Somewhere I read that the new 25mm lens being developed, WILL NOT COVER the old 645 size image size; rather it will cover 33mmx44mm only. If is the case, it will limit the potential market to 645D owners only. I would expect any future lenses will follow suit. I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense. Dave

01-05-2011, 11:27 AM	#27
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by gurtch Somewhere I read that the new 25mm lens being developed, WILL NOT COVER the old 645 size image size; rather it will cover 33mmx44mm only. If is the case, it will limit the potential market to 645D owners only. I would expect any future lenses will follow suit. I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense. Dave I've read that it will cover the whole 645 frame. I think Pentax is planning an FF (645) camera....

01-05-2011, 11:36 AM	#28
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I've read that it will cover the whole 645 frame. I think Pentax is planning an FF (645) camera.... They should be looking ahead because I don't imagine the sensor technology is more than a couple of years out, and to stay competitive they will need to use FF at that point. This market is less price sensitive and more driven by long term support and compatability. So far they aren't really there yet (they can't even meet demand for the limited product they've released) they will need to devote more time money and energy into this market if they really want to be there IMHO. Not sure Hoya will though as the return on investment may not be as measurable as straight sales #s. Halo is tough to quantify

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01-05-2011, 05:23 PM	#29
Smolk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Eerbeek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,854	yeah, let's have another FF - cropped frame discussion.... Originally posted by Medic875 I thought I was going crazy with all the super high prices on Ebay. Glad I not... As a side question...Are teh new 645D lenses backward compatible? The lens database has the answer for you: Quote: The lens covers the full 645 format and can thus be used on 645 film cameras as well as on 645 digital cameras. The lens has a built-in motor (SDM) for the autofocus function. On a 645 film camera the lens can be used in manual focus mode only, and only in P and Tv exposure modes due to the lack of an aperture ring.

01-05-2011, 05:37 PM	#30
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Smolk yeah, let's have another FF - cropped frame discussion.... : Isn't that where every thread about cameras is supposed to lead then some people can threaten to abandon the brand if FF isn't on the horizon The K5 comes out and is arguably the best apsc ever, and better than many FF in a lot of areas and next thing you know it's whens the FF k6 coming out lol I do see the replacement model 645d possibly being full frame though without a lot of other changes as the sensors will be developed and come down in price