645D for the Masses

Steinback · 02-05-2011, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by blende8

No.
I want fullframe as everybody else.
My lenses are waiting!

Also a good point. I have far more 35mm Pentax lenses waiting for a FF Pentax body than I do 645 lenses waiting for a cropped 645 body (unless you're referring to wanting a full frame 645 body, which is still a good point).

thibs · 02-05-2011, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

What is there to cut down from? The lenses are to expensive for just a 36x24 full frame sensor. The camera is as basic as it can be. Loosing the wheatersealing is just some rubbers and some time to put it together.

Nope, quite not IMO.

Btw, a 25/30Mpix version without sealing would sell well if price accordingly (I mean, against FF)

eurostar · 02-05-2011, 06:07 AM

Probably they will be doing what Pahse One and Hasselblad are doing to put on the market cameras priced as the 645D: using old film cameras with a old MF back with 21 megapixel.

Same camera, less some software function like electronic level, old 21MP sensor, half the price.

RonHendriks1966 · 02-05-2011, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

Probably they will be doing what Pahse One and Hasselblad are doing to put on the market cameras priced as the 645D: using old film cameras with a old MF back with 21 megapixel.

Same camera, less some software function like electronic level, old 21MP sensor, half the price.

I would not spend a dime on such a camera.

Look at the DxO test for that 21 megapixel sensor compared to the 40 mp inside the 645D. It has no chance for attrackting customers away from high-end Nikon/Canon camera's.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/(appareil1...brand2)/Pentax

Tommy · 02-05-2011, 06:53 AM

Maybe "cut-down" version means some of the registration distance has been cut along with the mirror and we will have the first MF EVIL.? I know, not very likely....sensor needs to be different to support live-view, lenses need to be different, still very expensive, etc. etc....

/Tommy

eurostar · 02-05-2011, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I would not spend a dime on such a camera.

Look at the DxO test for that 21 megapixel sensor compared to the 40 mp inside the 645D. It has no chance for attrackting customers away from high-end Nikon/Canon camera's.

DxOMark - Compare sensors

I think different. There are many people with 645 film camera and lenses that are not able to afford a 645D but could buy a 21Mp version for half the money needed on 645D or top level Nikon and Canon camera AND lenses.

Kenn100D · 02-05-2011, 07:14 AM

If a MF camera has the same image quality as the K-5 which in turn you can switch the sensor to FF via lens adapter to use with old FF lens would you still consider it? Your MF lens and your old FF lens will be used together.

gazonk · 02-05-2011, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

What is there to cut down from?

Pixels? Doesn't Mamiya have a low-cost 22mp version?

Quote:

The lenses are to expensive for just a 36x24 full frame sensor.

If you compare mm to mm and f-number to f-number, they're more expensive, but they're not really that expensive. And it could still make sense as a way to enter a new system where currently the camera body is the most expensive component. If the 645D-system is a success, you may then upgrade to a more modestly priced larger-sensor (maybe even "645 FF") body in a few years.

thibs · 02-05-2011, 07:21 AM

16.8 and 31.6MP are available from Kodak with (about the) same diagonal as current 40Mpix.
Kodak Image Sensor Solutions - Full Frame CCD

ewalk · 02-05-2011, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Kenn100D

If a MF camera has the same image quality as the K-5 which in turn you can switch the sensor to FF via lens adapter to use with old FF lens would you still consider it? Your MF lens and your old FF lens will be used together.

Interesting. But unlikely?

blende8 · 02-05-2011, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Kenn100D

If a MF camera has the same image quality as the K-5 which in turn you can switch the sensor to FF via lens adapter to use with old FF lens would you still consider it? Your MF lens and your old FF lens will be used together.

You cannot use FF lenses on a MF body, except you change the register distance. And that makes no sense.

zackspeed · 02-05-2011, 07:56 AM

Maybe 3 Body in complete?
One lower with Poliycarbonate body,no seals and 22 Megapixel.
One higher class is also possible.
And that the actually body will be alone the next time,is to exclude

Best regards,Andy

gazonk · 02-05-2011, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by zackspeed

Maybe 3 Body in complete?
One lower with Poliycarbonate body,no seals and 22 Megapixel.
One higher class is also possible.
And that the actually body will be alone the next time,is to exclude

Best regards,Andy

Makes sense

Let's see:

1) A much less expensive lower-mp (but same crop) body
2) The current body, maybe with slightly lower price
3) As the current body, but more expensive and with larger sensor (maybe the almost-645FF 60mp sensor?)

RonHendriks1966 · 02-05-2011, 08:23 AM

Well maybe for current lens-owners a low-kost body coult be interesting. But then again what is the 645D?

- all the electronics from K-5 in a different box and a different sensor wich sells for under 7.000 euro in Japan.

So if those K-5 electronics can't be that expensive, and a box doesn't cost a fortune then there is the sensor to make the price difference.

If you sell the 40mp 645D for 7.000 euro in Japan, 10.000 dollar in US and 10.000 euro in Europe, no way when hell freezes over that I'm gonna pay 7500 euro for a droped down 21 megapixel 645D with soso sensor quality. That price difference is not coming from the sensor, but from management discision to sell a product at a sertain pricepoint.

Look at this pricelist for Pentax 645 lenses:
Middenformaat lenzen | Objectieven | Foto Konijnenberg
If you have to spend this much money then you won't settle for a camera that doesn't bring topnotch quality. In that case your money is better spend on a Nikon D4x in spring with a 36 megapixel sensor.

thibs · 02-05-2011, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

That price difference is not coming from the sensor, but from management discision to sell a product at a sertain pricepoint.

Oh and it isn't the case for other manufacturers maybe ?

It is always so.

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02-05-2011, 05:42 AM	#16
Steinback Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: GTA, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,673	Originally posted by blende8 No. I want fullframe as everybody else. My lenses are waiting! Also a good point. I have far more 35mm Pentax lenses waiting for a FF Pentax body than I do 645 lenses waiting for a cropped 645 body (unless you're referring to wanting a full frame 645 body, which is still a good point).

02-05-2011, 05:51 AM	#17
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 What is there to cut down from? The lenses are to expensive for just a 36x24 full frame sensor. The camera is as basic as it can be. Loosing the wheatersealing is just some rubbers and some time to put it together. Nope, quite not IMO. Btw, a 25/30Mpix version without sealing would sell well if price accordingly (I mean, against FF)

02-05-2011, 06:07 AM	#18
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Probably they will be doing what Pahse One and Hasselblad are doing to put on the market cameras priced as the 645D: using old film cameras with a old MF back with 21 megapixel. Same camera, less some software function like electronic level, old 21MP sensor, half the price.

02-05-2011, 06:15 AM	#19
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by eurostar Probably they will be doing what Pahse One and Hasselblad are doing to put on the market cameras priced as the 645D: using old film cameras with a old MF back with 21 megapixel. Same camera, less some software function like electronic level, old 21MP sensor, half the price. I would not spend a dime on such a camera. Look at the DxO test for that 21 megapixel sensor compared to the 40 mp inside the 645D. It has no chance for attrackting customers away from high-end Nikon/Canon camera's. http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/(appareil1...brand2)/Pentax

02-05-2011, 06:53 AM	#20
Tommy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 195	Maybe "cut-down" version means some of the registration distance has been cut along with the mirror and we will have the first MF EVIL.? I know, not very likely....sensor needs to be different to support live-view, lenses need to be different, still very expensive, etc. etc.... /Tommy

02-05-2011, 06:59 AM	#21
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I would not spend a dime on such a camera. Look at the DxO test for that 21 megapixel sensor compared to the 40 mp inside the 645D. It has no chance for attrackting customers away from high-end Nikon/Canon camera's. DxOMark - Compare sensors I think different. There are many people with 645 film camera and lenses that are not able to afford a 645D but could buy a 21Mp version for half the money needed on 645D or top level Nikon and Canon camera AND lenses.

02-05-2011, 07:14 AM	#22
Kenn100D Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paranaque City, Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 697 Original Poster	If a MF camera has the same image quality as the K-5 which in turn you can switch the sensor to FF via lens adapter to use with old FF lens would you still consider it? Your MF lens and your old FF lens will be used together.

02-05-2011, 07:18 AM	#23
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 What is there to cut down from? Pixels? Doesn't Mamiya have a low-cost 22mp version? Quote: The lenses are to expensive for just a 36x24 full frame sensor. If you compare mm to mm and f-number to f-number, they're more expensive, but they're not really that expensive. And it could still make sense as a way to enter a new system where currently the camera body is the most expensive component. If the 645D-system is a success, you may then upgrade to a more modestly priced larger-sensor (maybe even "645 FF") body in a few years.

02-05-2011, 07:21 AM	#24
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	16.8 and 31.6MP are available from Kodak with (about the) same diagonal as current 40Mpix. Kodak Image Sensor Solutions - Full Frame CCD

02-05-2011, 07:27 AM	#25
ewalk Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 316	Originally posted by Kenn100D If a MF camera has the same image quality as the K-5 which in turn you can switch the sensor to FF via lens adapter to use with old FF lens would you still consider it? Your MF lens and your old FF lens will be used together. Interesting. But unlikely?

02-05-2011, 07:34 AM	#26
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by Kenn100D If a MF camera has the same image quality as the K-5 which in turn you can switch the sensor to FF via lens adapter to use with old FF lens would you still consider it? Your MF lens and your old FF lens will be used together. You cannot use FF lenses on a MF body, except you change the register distance. And that makes no sense.

02-05-2011, 07:56 AM	#27
zackspeed Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 527	Maybe 3 Body in complete? One lower with Poliycarbonate body,no seals and 22 Megapixel. One higher class is also possible. And that the actually body will be alone the next time,is to exclude Best regards,Andy

02-05-2011, 08:17 AM	#28
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by zackspeed Maybe 3 Body in complete? One lower with Poliycarbonate body,no seals and 22 Megapixel. One higher class is also possible. And that the actually body will be alone the next time,is to exclude Best regards,Andy Makes sense Let's see: 1) A much less expensive lower-mp (but same crop) body 2) The current body, maybe with slightly lower price 3) As the current body, but more expensive and with larger sensor (maybe the almost-645FF 60mp sensor?)

02-05-2011, 08:23 AM	#29
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well maybe for current lens-owners a low-kost body coult be interesting. But then again what is the 645D? - all the electronics from K-5 in a different box and a different sensor wich sells for under 7.000 euro in Japan. So if those K-5 electronics can't be that expensive, and a box doesn't cost a fortune then there is the sensor to make the price difference. If you sell the 40mp 645D for 7.000 euro in Japan, 10.000 dollar in US and 10.000 euro in Europe, no way when hell freezes over that I'm gonna pay 7500 euro for a droped down 21 megapixel 645D with soso sensor quality. That price difference is not coming from the sensor, but from management discision to sell a product at a sertain pricepoint. Look at this pricelist for Pentax 645 lenses: Middenformaat lenzen \| Objectieven \| Foto Konijnenberg If you have to spend this much money then you won't settle for a camera that doesn't bring topnotch quality. In that case your money is better spend on a Nikon D4x in spring with a 36 megapixel sensor.

02-05-2011, 08:43 AM	#30
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 That price difference is not coming from the sensor, but from management discision to sell a product at a sertain pricepoint. Oh and it isn't the case for other manufacturers maybe ? It is always so.