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05-31-2011, 05:07 AM - 8 Likes   #1
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Pentax Medium Format Resources: Pentax 645: Third party lenses via adapter

Pentax Medium Format Resources: Pentax 645: Third party lenses via adapter



Adapting “third party lenses” is in medium format (MF) photography more usual than in 135 photography. The main reason is IMHO the fact that MF photography with interchangeable lenses never was mainstream photography and always a small market. Unlike for 135 systems for most MF systems on economical reasons there are only one manufacturer (mostly the camera manufacturer) who offers lenses for “his” MF system. With a limited number of customers an economical production of special lenses is often not possible. So these lenses are expensive or not will not be built.
From this economical fact comes the necessary reason to adapt “rare” and special third party lenses (or other resources) from a third party manufacturer to the own system.
So MF systems are more open than 135 camera systems. Some MF camera manufactures (e.g. Hasselblad, Pentacon …) offers blind mount for adaptions, some manufactures (e.g. Pentax, Mamiya, Contax or future Leica) have/had adapters for thirds party lenses in their MF portfolio.
Another reason is that MF photography is a “slower” photography than 135 photography. Most adapted MF lens have some restrictions or limitations (no automatic aperture, no electronically communication with the camera). In the “faster”135 photography this may be a major disadvantage, in more contemplative MF photography stop down metering would not be too uncomfortable.

Technical

Pentax 645 cameras have a flange distance (FD) of 70.87 mm. That means from lens mount to film/sensor is a distance of 70.87mm.
Mechanical you can adapt every lens which has
_ a FD higher than 70.87mm
_ a mount diameter which would fit.
_ a image circle which illuminates at least 60mmx45mm

Another restriction is the aperture regulation which has be able mechanical.

Normally adapted lenses have
_ no AF
_ are working with stop down metering (no automatic aperture)
_ and have no electronically communication between lens and camera.


Possible by FD but IMHO not realized are adapters from Rollei 66, Bronica.
An adapter for Mamiya RZ and RB lenses to Pentax 645 camera adapter is announced by Steib (Munich ) and Wiese (Hamburg).

Not possible are those from Rollei SLX (FD 74.00mm) because the lack of aperture regulation.


Medium format cameras like Contax 645 (FD 64.00mm), Hasselblad H, Leica S2 or Mamiya 645 (FD 63.30mm) have a flange distance which is smaller than those of the Pentax645, adapted lenses from these systems would not be able to focus on infinite.



Pentax 67 lenses to Pentax 645

Pentax 67 lenses have a FD of 84.95mm
It is not “third party” so Pentax offers directly an adapter. The aperture of the 67 is automatically stopped down during the exposure. "The aperture value is properly transmitted from the lenses to the camera by a mechanical simulator slider (which many people miss inside the small Pentax DSLRs), but there is no transmittion of a aperture value from the camera to the lenses --> no A-mode. Measurements in M-Mode and Av-Mode are working " (source Klaus123 in this thread)
Pentax 67 Lens to Pentax 645 Body Adapter Reviews - Pentax Lens Reviews & Pentax Lens Database

An overview of the adaptable lenses is given in the review part of this forum.


Hasselblad V-system lenses to Pentax 645

Hasselblad V lenses have a FD 74.90mm.

As I see there are four brands of adapters for Hasselblad V lenses to Pentax 645 cameras on market.
The "brands” are:
_ Kipon, a chinese made adapter
_ Rayq[al] (=Fotodiox?) japanese providence
_ Rugift an east european made adapter (Russian or Ukrainian origin)
_ Zörkendörfer ( “Zörk”), a german manufacturer.

Major lens supplier for this system: Carl Zeiss Oberkochen and Schneider-Kreuznach. There are also lenses from Fuji.
You can use lenses for the so called “Hasselblad V-system” (camera series 200, 500, 2000) with central (C, CF, CFi) or focal shutter (F, FE).

Selection of some Hasselblad V System lenses
Manufacturer: Carl Zeiss Oberkochen (execept Variogaon: Schneider-Kreuznach)
C =centralshutter, F focal shutter, both have the same mount and can be adaptetd to Pentax 645

CF
Distagon CF 30mm (fisheye)
Distagon CF 40mm
Distagon CF 40mm FLE
Distagon CF 50mm
Distagon CF 50mm FLE
Distagon CF 60mm
Planar CF 80mm
Planar CF 100mm
Sonnar CF 150mm
Sonnar CF 180mm
Sonnar CF 250mm
Teletessar CF 350mm
Tele Apotessar CF 500mm [V1]
Tele Apotessar CF 500mm [V2]
UV-Sonnar CF 105mm
Makro-Planar CF 120mm
Makro-Planar CF 135mm
Variogon CF 140-280mm (Schneider)
Sonnar-Superachromat f/5.6 250 mm CFE
Tele-Superachromat f/5.6 350 mm CFE (IF)


FE
Distagon f/2.8 50 mm FE (FLE)
Planar f/2.8 80 mm FE
Planar f/2 110 mm FE
Sonnar f/2.8 150 mm FE
Tele-Tessar f/4 250 mm FE
Tele-Superachromat f/2.8 300 mm TPP FE (IF)
Tele-Tessar f/4 350 mm FE (IF)
Apo Sonnar 4.0/1700mm FE


Pentacon Six [P6] bayonet lenses to Pentax 645

Pentacon Six [P6] lenses have a FD of 74.10mm.
Pentacon* Six [P6] was a Medium Format system which was built originally at Kamera Werke Dresden Germany (KW, later VEB Pentacon) first in the mid fifties (Praktisix). The breech mount was also used by Exakta 66 (West Germany) and the Ukrainian camera Kiev60 (Arsenal in Kiev, Ukraine). From the mid nineties the ukrainian Hasselblad clone Kiev80** was also produced with the P6 mount. Since the nineties the P6 mount has developed to the standard east European MF mount.
Arsenal stopped camera and lens production officially in 2009, but in time before in Kiev a lot of small spin offs manufactures and mechanical workshops (Arax, Hartblei....) offered accessories for the P6 system.

Out of my experience there are no “branded” adapters for P6 lenses to Pentax 645 on market. Most of the adapters on market are no name from small eastern european or chinese mechanic workshops.
I have seen adapters made from aluminium and of brass. IMHO the brass one is more preferable.

Major lens supplier for the P6 medium format system was VEB Carl Zeiss Jena (Germany), Schneider –Kreuznach (Germany), Meyer, Görlitz (later VEB Pentacon) (Germany), Arsenal (Ukraine) and spin offs (Arax, Hartblei…)


VEB Carl Zeiss Jena lenses for P6 :
Flektogon 4.0/50mm
Biometar 2.8/80mm
Biometar 2.8/120mm
Sonnar 2.8/180mm
Sonnar 4.0/300mm
Spiegelobjektiv 5,6/1000
(older lenses Flektogon 2,8/65; Tessar 2,9/80)

There are also P6-lenses from Meyer, Görlitz (later part of VEB Pentacon, lenses renamed in Prakticar)
Primotar E 3,5/80;
Trioplan 2,8/105;
Priotar 3,5/135;
Priotar 3,5/180;
Telemegor (later Pentacon) 4/300;
Telemegor 5,5/400;
Pentacon (and Prakticar) 5,6/500

There are also lenses from Schneider-Kreuznach, Arsenal and Kilfitt
Ukrainian workshops are offering a T/S 45mm lens.

P6-lensesfrom Schneider Kreuznach (Germany)
Curtagon MF 40 4
Curtagon MF 60 3.5
Xenotar MF 80 2.8
Tele-Xenar MF 150 4
Tele-Xenar MF 250 5.6
Variogon MF 75-150 4.5
Variogon MF 140-280 5.6
Special lenses:
PCS Super-Angulon MF 55 4.5 (Shift)
Symmar-S 135 5.6
Symmar-S 180 5.6
M-Componon 28 4
M-Componon 50 4


P6-lenses from Kiev (Ukraine)
Zodiak-8B 30mm 3.5 (fisheye)
Mir-26B 45mm 3.5
Mir-69B (4) 45mm 3.5
Mir-3B (5) 65mm 3.5
Mir-38B 65mm 3.5
Volna-3 80mm 2.8
Vega-12 (10) 90mm 2.8
Vega-28B 120mm 2.8
Kaleinar-3B 150mm 2.8
Jupiter-36B 250mm 3.5
Telear-5B (11) 250mm 5.6
Tair-33 300mm 4.5
Arsat APO MC (12)f/5.6 / 500mm
(please note not all Kiev lenses are multicoated)



* historical remark: the names Pentax and Pentacon have the same historic roots. In the late 40ies Zeiss Ikon Dresden (East Germany) invented the 135 SLR Contax with Pentaprism and M42 thread mount. Because of differences in naming between Carl Zeiss (Oberkochen) (West Germany) and VEB Carl Zeiss Jena (East Germany), in Dresden (East Germany) was decided to brand the SLR in the late 50ies as Pentacon which derives from Pentaprism contax.
Some licences were sold to Asahi Japan which named their SLR as Pentaprism Contax.

Later both SLR brands named the manufacturer.


** There is the possibility to adapt Kiev80 lenses (with “original” Hasselblad F1000 threat mount) to P6.



Exotics to Pentax 645

_Leica Visoflex lenses

Some Leica lenses for the Visoflex system have their origin in Great Format lenses, so the image circle and FD allow adapting these lenses. Leica Visoflex M39 screw mount lens, i.e., 65mm f3.5, telyt 135mm F4, Telyt 200mm F4, 280mm F4.5 and others.
There are no commercial made "direct" adapters known, but there "indirect" ways:
a) Leica Visoflex M39 Lens to Hasselblad Mount Adapter (e.g. rugift) + Hasselblad to P645 adapter

b) Leica Visoflex M39 Lens to Pentax 67 Adapter + Pentax 67 to Pentax 645 adapter



_ Novoflex Schnellschuss System

The “Novoflex Schnellschuss System” was rapid focus system for telelenses from the pre AF era. It was a combination of a rapid focus head with changeable mounts and a tele lens optical system. (there were 400mm and 500 tele lenses from Novoflex and Leica.
Some Hasselblad literature indicates that it can used also on 60x60mm MF cameras. The mount name for Pentax 645 is “TAXPRO”


Mamiya RZ and RB lenses to Pentax 645 camera adapter

Steib (München) and Wiese (Hamburg) are offering a Mamiya RZ and RB lens to Pentax 645 (and Cx 645, Mamiya 645) adapter. It made partial from Mamiya parts, price is about 1100€
source:
HCam-Adapter: Mamiya-RB-/RZ-Objektive an Mamiya / Phase One 645 (aktualisiert) | photoscala


Last edited by veraikon; 06-18-2012 at 02:56 AM. Reason: info added
05-31-2011, 06:26 AM   #2
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A good summary with lots of information, thank you.

Except for looking into the Hasselblad-V's (which I didn't know about)... looks like the only wide angle is the P6 FleKtogon.
05-31-2011, 06:52 AM   #3
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thanks nesster, There are more wide angle lenses.
I have added some more info (concerning Hasselblad V, Schneider Kreuznach and Kiev)
05-31-2011, 08:55 AM   #4
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Verakion: WOW!!! What a fantastic listing. Thank You from all of us. This is exactly the info I need.
Best regards
Dave in NJ

05-31-2011, 01:15 PM   #5
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I have some very good bronica 645 etrs lenses and now I have started the pentax 645d system. Do you now of any adapters to mount bronica on pentax
05-31-2011, 02:20 PM   #6
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Oh you make me want to buy a 645!
05-31-2011, 02:37 PM   #7
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Just one thing - you mention the potential feasibility of adapting RB67 and RZ67 lenses to the 645 system. However, I think these systems rely on bellows in the focus for focusing (and hence have no ability to focus within the lens itself). If that's right, it could be a major problem for use on the 645 system, which has no such bellows. Unless of course the adaptor is used with some sort of bellows or helicoid attachment...? Thoughts?
05-31-2011, 11:25 PM   #8
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yeah, the Lenses from RB67 and RZ67 or Rollei 66 must have a helicoid or bellow.
It is possible but not economic.
As far as I know there no commercial adapters on market.

06-01-2011, 01:40 AM   #9
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Very nice summary. I have been shooting with CZJ Pentacon 6 lenses on a Pentax 645 and 645NII cameras for a number of years now with very satisfying results. I should caution that it was quite difficult finding an adapter with parallel mounting surfaces, and went through several East European and Chinese samples before I found a good one. It is amazing how far off some of them were. Also, one must accept stop down operation.

If you really want to use Pentacon 6 lenses, I would suggest getting a Kiev 88 CM or Arax CM, which is actually a Kiev 88 CM that has been improved through various modifications. With the Arax CM, you can get a through the lens metered prism (spot and weighted), 6x6 size, rather than 6x4.5, and automatic aperture operation.

Another course of action is to adapt Pentacon 6 lenses to the Pentax 67 by rebuilding the mount end of the lens. I have adapted the Carl Zeiss Jena 120/2.8 Biometar, and the 180/2.8 & 300/4 Sonars to the 67 mount. All 3 lenses have large enough image circles for the 67 format. Like the 645, it is stop down metering, but the film size is 67, rather than 645, to me, well worth the effort. The adaptations are reversible for the 120/2.8 and the 300/4, meaning you can recover the P6 mounting if you wish, but with the 180/2.8, the alteration is irreversible, as structural parts of the original 180 lens must be altered.

Best, Alan
06-15-2011, 04:23 AM   #10
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update:

Mamiya RZ and RB lens to Pentax 645 camera adapter available.

QuoteQuote:
...
Der HCam-RZ/RB-645-Adapter entstammt einer Kooperation von Stefan Steib, München (Vertrieb / Marketing) sowie Wiese Fototechnik, Hamburg (Technik / Produktion). Die beiden glauben, dass er ein Erfolg wird, seien doch hochwertige Mittelformatobjektive der Baureihen Mamiya RB / RZ weltweit in großen Stückzahlen günstig erhältlich.

Mit Hilfe des Adapters lassen sich diese Objektive sowohl an Mamiya 645 (und Pentax 645, Contax 645) bzw. Phase One 645 als auch – mit weiteren Adaptern – an allen Kleinbild-Systemen nutzen. Der Adapter ist laut Anbieter mit Original-Mamiya-RB/RZ-Bajonetten bestückt, das rückseitige 645er Bajonett ist drehbar und rastet in 90-Grad-Stufen.
.........
HCam-Adapter: Mamiya-RB-/RZ-Objektive an Mamiya / Phase One 645 (aktualisiert) | photoscala

IMHO Mr Steib (Munich) is involved in the "german" Hartblei company (those whith the Zeiss lenses)
06-15-2011, 08:13 PM   #11
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Do you know how they achieve focusing? Are there any optical elements in this adaptor?
06-15-2011, 09:07 PM   #12
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There is a focus helicoid as part of the adapter
06-15-2011, 11:16 PM   #13
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Thanks! The link seems to be to an adaptor to the Mamiya 645 / Phase mount, not to Pentax 645. Am I missing something? Is there also an adaptor here to the Pentax 645 mount?
06-16-2011, 03:59 AM   #14
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Inside of linked article also Contax 645 and Pentax 645 mount is mentioned. It is "build*" by Wiese who is historicaly linked with Contax, so it seems thrue.
QuoteQuote:
Mit Hilfe des Adapters lassen sich diese Objektive sowohl an Mamiya 645 (und Pentax 645, Contax 645)
* IMHO in the discussion comes clear that they don´t work it out by own, but the mechanical part is outsourced. (Wiese is an repair shop not a manufacturer, IMHO mechanical work is done at may be ex-Francke& Heidecke, but when Mr. Hartblei-Germany is involved you never will know it exactly )
06-16-2011, 08:20 AM   #15
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the original press release with more details . Mamiya RB/RZ auf 645 Adapter - Stefan Steib hartblei.de - PresseBox (in the press release a link for the english version)
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