[Nesster]

+1, excellent advice!

Talking about hard to load film, my Rolleicord IV is way harder to load than my 6x7. So the 6x7 is not the champion in hard to load MF cameras.

It is true, some are just plain more fiddly than others. I find the Diacord easier than the Yashica Mat, for example... and am still getting used to the Autocord rolling the opposite direction (supply at the top, take-up at the bottom)... but the biggest pain: Kodak Medalist. Not only do I have to respool to a 620 reel, Kodak was so damn paranoid they made the chambers barely large enough for the 620. And putting the film in is a cakewalk compared to trying to get an exposed roll out of the damn thing

[DougLee]

Thanks so much to everyone for their imput. I can't tell you all how helpful you have been. I have been doing alot of searching on the web and reading alot of reviews and opinions.

I am leaning toward a TLR, particularly as you can change lenses, this seems to be unique for TLR cameras. Something about holding the camera at waist level and looking into a large viewfinder appeals to me as a contrast to my Pentax dSLR.

I have looked at the Epson V700 looks good but I am wondering how much difference there is between it and the v500 or v600. Any thoughts on this.

I realise that I will need a light meter. Wow, these can get pricey!

I am both excited and intimidated at the prospect of this new way of working. Lots to learn! But when I see the kind of images that this format is capable of, I get really excited. I also like the idea of being more intimately involved with the image making process.

Thanks again.

Doug

[Nesster]

Doug, maybe you left out the Mamiya Cxxx part of the TLR those are nifty things; I know several people with them and they get great results.

For the light meter, you do not have to spend a ton - many vintage meters are just fine, and do reflected or incident readings. The advantage is that you can point them at what you want to get your reading. (With the vintage units, research the battery availability situation before buying.)

[tuco]

...
I am leaning toward a TLR, particularly as you can change lenses, this seems to be unique for TLR cameras. Something about holding the camera at waist level and looking into a large viewfinder appeals to me as a contrast to my Pentax dSLR.

In general, most TLRs are fixed lenses. And an economical TLR is a good start. You can find out if film is going to be worth it for you without a large investment. And if you find later you like it, you'll have plenty of time to shop for a deal on a more comprehensive system and keep the TLR too.

I have looked at the Epson V700 looks good but I am wondering how much difference there is between it and the v500 or v600. Any thoughts on this.

I realize that I will need a light meter. Wow, these can get pricey!

I am both excited and intimidated at the prospect of this new way of working. Lots to learn! But when I see the kind of images that this format is capable of, I get really excited. I also like the idea of being more intimately involved with the image making process.

Thanks again.

Doug

The V500 offers a good bang for the buck. Spending a lot on a scanner means more of a commitment to the medium. You'll have to decide.

Consider a light meter that is not too fancy and expensive. Used perhaps. And, again, if you find you're going to be more committed to film, you can pick up a better one at a later date.

[DougLee]

Good advice and much apriciated.

Yes, I meant the Mamiya C220 from KEH. Also I am bidding on a Yashica Mat, not sure I will win as I will limit what I offer as I don't really know if it is in full working order or not.

I'll look into a used light meter at KEH.

Thanks!

[desertscape]

Thanks for the reply Desertscape. I will look into the 67. What do you consder it's strong points to be vs the 645? I hadn't even considered slide vs print. Hmmm, I've got a lot to learn. I expect most of my shooting would be nature. I live a few footsteps away from Acadia National Park.

Do you your own slides? If so would you consider it fairly straight forward and easy to learn? Also do you scan your slides and work on them in digital form? If so what scanner do your use and would your recommend it for someone starting out?

Thanks again

The strong point of the 67 over the 645 is film size. They are both fine cameras however. For shooting nature, try Fuji Velvia 100f as a starting point. Even tho I have a Chemistry background, I do not process my own slides but it is not that difficult. I just do not enjoy it. Most of my slides are not scanned as most of my cusomers still take film. This is changing tho and my local lab has a Hasselblad X5 virtual drum scanner that does very well. The results I've seen from the Nikon 9000 scanner have been mixed. Some shots look like the original but others were too contrasty. I'm not a big fan of converting slides to digital.

[desertscape]

In my opinion, you don't want anything with a moving mirror when shooting MF and I am not a huge fan of the Pentax MF lineup.

You would have to have stones the size of NY to come onto the Pentax Forum's medium format section and fat mouth the 645 and 67. It's like driving down the freeway in the wrong direction. Don't ya think?

[surfotog]

+1 to desertscapes comments. Every time I see one of these posts about the huge mirror/shutter bounce in the 67's, I refer the poster to the work of Nick Brandt, who produces stunning images of African landscapes and wildlife shooting 67's handheld with a 3 lens kit. He scans his negs and makes large prints. The longest lens he uses is a 200mm, so he's getting really close to the animals. If he can do that kind of work with a camera that sounds like a "mortar", it can be used for most anything.

[tuco]

+1 to desertscapes comments. Every time I see one of these posts about the huge mirror/shutter bounce in the 67's, I refer the poster to the work of Nick Brandt, who produces stunning images of African landscapes and wildlife shooting 67's handheld with a 3 lens kit. He scans his negs and makes large prints. The longest lens he uses is a 200mm, so he's getting really close to the animals. If he can do that kind of work with a camera that sounds like a "mortar", it can be used for most anything.

I have a P6x7 handheld shot taken while on a rolling, pitching sailboat in rough water during a race of another sailboat using a 165mm lens. Zooming in on the full size scan it is pretty sharp. Granted, it's not pristine, tripod sharp but certainly good for taking a MF camera in that kind of environment with double the shutter speed over a leaf shutter camera.

[stevebrot]

So the 6x7 is not the champion in hard to load MF cameras.

No...The champion of difficult to load MF cameras is my Yashica-44. My fingers are not particularly fat, but working the film into and out of the body requires patience and a steel will.


Steve

[veraikon]

thanks yamanobori !, I added some info:
TLR
Rollei 6x6
Mamiya 6x6
Yashica 6x6
Seagull 6x6

SLR
Pentax 645 6x4.5
Pentax 67 6x7
Bronica (different systems 6x4.5 to 6x7)
Hasselblad V 6x6, 6x4.5
Hasselbald H 6x4.5
Rollei SL66 6x6
Rollei 6000x 6x6
Pentacon Six 6x6
Kiev 60 6x6
Kiev 80 (6x6)
Exakta 66 6x6
Mamiya 645 6x4.5
Mamiya RB 6x6, 6x4.5
Mamiya RZ 6x7, 6x4.5
Contax 645 6x4.5

Rangefinder/Viewfinder
Bronica
Mamiya 7 6x7 , 24x58
Fuji Voigtländer (Cosina) 6x6, 6x7
Plaubel/Makina 6x6
Brooks Veriwide
Horseman
Holga

View camera
Horseman
Linhof (Any 4x5 can take roll film backs as well)

Panoramic cameras
Horseman
Linhof 6x12, 6x17
Noblex
Seitz
Fotoman Art Panorama

[Yamanobori]

Filling in the missing info:

TLR
Rollei 6x6
Mamiya 6x6
Yashica 6x6
Seagull 6x6

SLR
Pentax 645 6x4.5
Pentax 67 6x7
Bronica (different systems 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7)
Hasselblad V 6x6, 6x4.5, 35mm pano back
Hasselbald H 6x4.5
Rollei SL66 6x6
Rollei 6000x 6x6
Pentacon Six 6x6
Kiev 60 6x6
Kiev 80 (6x6)
Exakta 66 6x6
Mamiya 645 6x4.5
Mamiya RB 6x6, 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x8
Mamiya RZ 6x7, 6x4.5
Contax 645 6x4.5
Fuji 6x8

Rangefinder/Viewfinder
Bronica 6x4.5
Mamiya 7 6x7 , 24x58
Mamiya 6 6x6, 35mm
Fuji Voigtländer (Cosina) 6x6, 6x7
Fuji 6x4.5, 6x7, 6x9
Plaubel/Makina 6x7
Brooks Veriwide 6x9ish
Horseman 6x7, 6x9
Holga 6x4.5, 6x6

View camera
Horseman 6x7, 6x9
Linhof 6x7, 6x9
(Any 4x5 can take roll film backs as well: 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 6x12)

Panoramic cameras
Horseman 6x12, 6x17
Fuji 6x16
Linhof 6x12, 6x17
Noblex 6x12, 6x17
Seitz Really long
Fotoman 6x12, 6x17, 6x24
Art Panorama 6x17, 6x24

[vparseval]

You would have to have stones the size of NY to come onto the Pentax Forum's medium format section and fat mouth the 645 and 67. It's like driving down the freeway in the wrong direction. Don't ya think?

Driving down the freeway in the wrong direction is scary, fat mouthing the 645 and 67 isn't. People here are just too nice, I guess. :-)

Cheers,
Tassilo

[Makten]

This mirror slap nonsense has got to come to an end. I don't know if the 6x7 or 67 is worse than the 67II, but the latter is easy to handhold. I do it all the time, and I'm not afraid of "slow" shutter speeds. If you use the old rule of thumb for 135 cameras, which is holding the shutter speed faster than the reciprocal of the focal length, you're safe.

These are recent shots with the 105/2.4 on the P67II, all at 1/125 second, handheld. Each is followed with a 100% crop from the 2400 DPI scan with Epson V700 with its stock film holder. That's ~30 smooth megapixels.




100% crop:







100% crop:







100% crop:





Now, if sharpness is lacking, its NOT because of camera shake. It's because the scanner isn't better, the film wasn't flatter, or focus wasn't dead on.
With shorter lenses you can go even slower. I can dig out some 75/4.5 shots that is tack sharp at 1/60 if you want to see. That particular lens is very handholdable because of the high inertia and relatively short focal length.

Edit: Handholdability was the very reason I chose the P67II. I wanted an SLR because of my interest in well defined compositions, and I wanted a metering prism so I wouldn't have to fiddle with a separate metering device. I also wanted a very fast normal lens (the 105/2.4 is unbeaten for the 6x7 format, I believe), and finally I really wanted 6x7 over 6x6 because I like the aesthetics of the aspect ratio.

[tuco]

This mirror slap nonsense has got to come to an end.
...

How dare you contradict internet wisdom.